Looking for a new trailer. Weights and capacities have me confused.

[CarterKraft]

The "Federal Register..." is a link to the full text:



Basically, manufacturers don't include GCWR on a label, so the old way of adding GVWRs together is officially sanctioned now (well, since 2014).

Marked up:

Reading between the lines, this came about from hotshotters messing around with re-rating and de-rating shenanigans to avoid CDLs. This rule change formalized the GVWR addition method and also allows them to mix and match scale weights and rated GVWRs (highest combined value) for a GCWR determination.

I hate acronyms.

It kind of also says the higher number is the correct number, if the manufacturer doesn't specify a gcwr, but they do just not on the truck tag, is that the right answer I don't know.

My truck has a GCWR of 40k, that's a lot more than 26001 benchmark.
Even just adding my truck gvw to trailer gvw puts me @27k, firmly Class A territory.

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

Sounds like you need to trade it in for a Tundra with a set of airbags.

Bye bye BallerKraft cowboy cadillac. It's crazy the capabilities of modern pickups.

Being a fancy truck and RV, you probably can get away with playing dumb for quite a while. I'm guessing you have a Class A for your service trucks, but want others to be able to drive on trips. In that case, plead ignorance and to let you get back in the driver's seat.





I also finally realized that there's a simpler way to say what that document says. The rule that it was written to change, good 'ol 49 C.F.R. Part 383.

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

Here you go:

F150, XL trim regular cab.

Calculate your own GCWR, toss in a fifth wheel and let it eat.

 

[CarterKraft]

Sounds like you need to trade it in for a Tundra with a set of airbags.

Bye bye BallerKraft cowboy cadillac. It's crazy the capabilities of modern pickups.

Being a fancy truck and RV, you probably can get away with playing dumb for quite a while. I'm guessing you have a Class A for your service trucks, but want others to be able to drive on trips. In that case, plead ignorance and to let you get back in the driver's seat.





I also finally realized that there's a simpler way to say what that document says. The rule that it was written to change, good 'ol 49 C.F.R. Part 383.

No CDL or class A for me, I purposely stay in the sub 26k service truck for that reason.

The document makes sense and now I'm curious if that is how Texas Interprets the law.

 

[arse_sidewards]

He needs to absolutely stay where he's at.

Piece of shit people with their double standards.

Take your own advice.

Say nothing of the fact that half this board is carpetbaggers.

 

[CarterKraft]

10-4 I'd just like to clarify at least in Texas the CDL part is not required to get a class A.

Sounds like you need to trade it in for a Tundra with a set of airbags.

Bye bye BallerKraft cowboy cadillac. It's crazy the capabilities of modern pickups.

Being a fancy truck and RV, you probably can get away with playing dumb for quite a while. I'm guessing you have a Class A for your service trucks, but want others to be able to drive on trips. In that case, plead ignorance and to let you get back in the driver's seat.





I also finally realized that there's a simpler way to say what that document says. The rule that it was written to change, good 'ol 49 C.F.R. Part 383.

So you are citing federal laws and I'm reading Texas propaganda so to make sure this horse is dead...
The Texas rule doesn't say anything about lack of GCWR on the sticker just that if GCWR is over 26001 and trailer over 10k it's class A.

I guess I need to stop at the roadside DPS inspection area by my shop and ask them what they think.
I only hesitate to do that cause I don't want them to inspect my service truck

 

[aczlan]

So you are citing federal laws and I'm reading Texas propaganda so to make sure this horse is dead...
The Texas rule doesn't say anything about lack of GCWR on the sticker just that if GCWR is over 26001 and trailer over 10k it's class A.

I guess I need to stop at the roadside DPS inspection area by my shop and ask them what they think.
I only hesitate to do that cause I don't want them to inspect my service truck

Looking at the section 522 rules it says: TRANSPORTATION CODE CHAPTER 522. COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSES

In the case of your work truck, if it's GCWR is not on the tag, as I read that, they would use the GVWR tag on the truck and the trailer weight or (possibly) the trailer GVWR tag.

Aaron Z

 

[CarterKraft]

Here's the service truck tags, all available on the jambs.

 

[CarterKraft]

And the F350

 

[CarterKraft]

Looking at the section 522 rules it says: TRANSPORTATION CODE CHAPTER 522. COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSES

In the case of your work truck, if it's GCWR is not on the tag, as I read that, they would use the GVWR tag on the truck and the trailer weight or (possibly) the trailer GVWR tag.

Aaron Z

This is really a loophole potential dumb dumb defensse...

Cause in the law it says both things...

Sec. 522.041. CLASSIFICATIONS. (a) The department may issue a Class A, Class B, or Class C commercial driver's license or commercial learner's permit. (b)

Class A covers a combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of the towed vehicle or vehicles exceeds 10,000 pounds.

Edit: I'm not arguing just getting through the all the possibilities of the a-hole DPS officers.

 

[IH Man]

You guys worry too much about door stickers.

I do have a Class A CDL, and have for a very long time. I’m sure I was properly loaded and had it balanced within the weight on the stupid door sticker.

 

[CarterKraft]

You guys worry too much about door stickers.

I do have a Class A CDL, and have for a very long time. I’m sure I was properly loaded and had it balanced within the weight on the stupid door sticker.

If this site isn't for arguing and bitching what is it for?

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

I have a Class A with hazmat/tank/double triples. Mainly as job security, I get bored driving trucks so I won't do it full time again. I know that if I want to change jobs or pick up side work I can hop in anything but a bus.

I know I'm over my work pickup's 10k GVWR every time I haul a tractor on a goose. Knock on wood, I have a legitimate route avoiding local scale houses, don't speed when loaded, and haven't been stopped by the portable scales. It looks legit, and I'm confident I'm within axle, tire, and combined GVWR ratings.

10k GVWR 3/4 ton diesels just don't leave much room for pin weight.

But the boss also once had a trooper warn him that a hazmat endorsement was required for 20 gallons of diesel in the hauled tractor's OEM tank. So, anything is possible.

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

I'm interpreting all the changes with the GCWR definition was to make it easier to write tickets and have them hold up in court.



It's got to be a documentation hell to write a ticket for exceeding a factory GCWR that relies on OEM literature and a determination of what that exact pickup is optioned with for gears, etc. And to do all that on the side of a highway.



Hence the change to do the math off the required decals, and/or scale it. I've never personally seen GCWR on a decal, to include IH, Volvo, Freightshaker, KW, Chevy/GMC, Dodge, and Ford.



Factory GCWR is not really a thing for semis, just the odd area around CDL/non CDL that all the definitions get tossed around. Class 8 trucks care about the registered weight, axle weights, and what the road allows per axle group. We had blanket 10% over permits during winter hauling. Still within axle and tire ratings, but didn't get tickets until over 88k or if caught on a road with axle group weight limits.

It also can get confusing as there is different language for a tractor and trailer versus a pickup and trailer. Hence why hot shotters will often have a 3500 with the bed removed and 1/2 fenders installed. It makes it the legal equivalent of a tractor and there's some advantage there versus a pickup.

 

[CarterKraft]

I suck at math...
14k + 13k is still over 26,001 so I'm screwed with way.

I could register the truck at 10k but then I'd be over weight but not class A?
Pick your ticket type of deal...

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

If you scale under 26k all hooked up and Tejas lets you derate it, I'd be tempted for 13k truck and 13k trailer. More wiggle room to be legal, especially if you haul stuff in the bed without a trailer. You're at 8629 curb weight, plus accessories you've added, people, and whatever else you load up in the bed.

Although, my 68 Burb is over it's GVWR empty. Apparently a Cummins is heavier than a small block chevy. K20 door tag says 7k GVW and it scales at 7030ish with a full fuel tank and me. Registration just lists new "empty" weight of like 4500lbs. If I ever get scaled, I'm sure it'll be confusing and I'll be playing dumb. But at least it's not burning red fuel (anymore...).

 

[IH Man]

But the boss also once had a trooper warn him that a hazmat endorsement was required for 20 gallons of diesel in the hauled tractor's OEM tank. So, anything is possible.

Good grief. 🙄

 

[CarterKraft]

If you scale under 26k all hooked up and Tejas lets you derate it, I'd be tempted for 13k truck and 13k trailer. More wiggle room to be legal, especially if you haul stuff in the bed without a trailer. You're at 8629 curb weight, plus accessories you've added, people, and whatever else you load up in the bed.

Although, my 68 Burb is over it's GVWR empty. Apparently a Cummins is heavier than a small block chevy. K20 door tag says 7k GVW and it scales at 7030ish with a full fuel tank and me. Registration just lists new "empty" weight of like 4500lbs. If I ever get scaled, I'm sure it'll be confusing and I'll be playing dumb. But at least it's not burning red fuel (anymore...).

A burb sounds like a great vehicle to cheat on, lots of shoulder shrugging and "man I don't know this thing is 56 years old
"

Derating to 13k would solve a lot of problems and I don't think I could ever get to 26 with my current setup.

 

[IH Man]

I guess you guys who want to tow big loads just need to buy bigger trucks. Guess that makes too much sense.

 

[CarterKraft]

I guess you guys who want to tow big loads just need to buy bigger trucks. Guess that makes too much sense.

You got me confused hoss, I need smaller truck. I got the CB and the trucker hat just to fit in.

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

I guess you guys who want to tow big loads just need to buy bigger trucks. Guess that makes too much sense.

Border issues.

Small ag research company with three work trucks. All three are 10k GVW 2500s so that medical cards aren't needed.

Send a crew cab of summer help to a trial site in Minnesota and they're interstate commerce and need a med card if over 10k GVWR. Even though the cargo is probably 200 lbs of coolers and hand tools in the bed, and they've only traveled 2 miles from the home farm.

We're also ag but not ag. Data is the primary product, but we do bring commodities to market secondary to the data.

As long as the company pays the ticket, I'll take a confusing weight ticket on me over giving an 18-22 year old helper an improper license ticket.

 

[arse_sidewards]

You got me confused hoss, I need smaller truck. I got the CB and the trucker hat just to fit in.

The way I read it you need a trailer that's rated under 10k

 

[CarterKraft]

The way I read it you need a trailer that's rated under 10k

That's a solution too but that isn't possible with this trailer to actually hit that weight.

A derated (13k) truck in my case would not make a difference except it would keep me under the class A threshold and not over weight, win/win in my book.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

You guys worry to much about shit that may never happen......

Play dumb if you ever actually get pulled over and then worry or do something about it then.

CarterKraft, Wesley drives all over the country in his CC dually Dodge 3500 pulling a 40' triple axle race car trailer and doesn't stop at weigh stations and doesn't ever get pulled over. I talked to him extensively about this very thing before I bought my new trailer, and he said it's not even a thought in his head because in all the years they have been traveling they have never gotten pulled over for passing a weigh station and have never had the DOT pull them over. And thats with a race trailer not a camper. You will be fine

 

[CarterKraft]

I agree it's only a concern cause my shit looks a little more Sanford and Son than bad ass race car guy

 

[Bebop]

Piece of shit people with their double standards.

Take your own advice.

Say nothing of the fact that half this board is carpetbaggers.

No double standards. It's you specifically.

 

[Bebop]

You guys worry to much about shit that may never happen......

Play dumb if you ever actually get pulled over and then worry or do something about it then.

CarterKraft, Wesley drives all over the country in his CC dually Dodge 3500 pulling a 40' triple axle race car trailer and doesn't stop at weigh stations and doesn't ever get pulled over. I talked to him extensively about this very thing before I bought my new trailer, and he said it's not even a thought in his head because in all the years they have been traveling they have never gotten pulled over for passing a weigh station and have never had the DOT pull them over. And thats with a race trailer not a camper. You will be fine

Same with Burkey when he was racing. 38ft bumper pull. 2 buggies in it.
Never had a problem.

 

[Provience]

Many years ago I did get flagged by the highway sign to pull into a weigh station. Rental truck over 26k lbs. Went through the scale, got the red light for being overweight. Went in with all my paperwork, talked to the lady inside, explained I was moving and I don't know shit about fuck. Left with a "well its supposed to be xyz, have a nice trip"

I've been flagged by highway sign for things like "all vehicles and combos over 10k lbs must stop" and just kept on going with no issues. Cops present and all. Never have bothered trying to switch lanes or trick the system.

Door tag on my truck is 7900 PBS, trailer has 7k lbs of axles. Registration for truck says 4500lbs and trailer says 1500lbs.....so, whatever. It's all very meaningless

 

[Krackle959]

Reading this thread made me think about my combo, and then check the numbers. Last fall bought a Diamond C 24’ deck over tilt trailer, that I tow behind my 2018 Ram 3500 CCSB 6.7L. The trailer tag is 14,900 LBS and the truck is 11,700 lbs, so on paper I’m over. Great!

I’d never weigh that as I don’t think I’d ever get the truck close to 11,700 lbs. If I put the mini ex on the trailer I’d be close at maxing out the trailer weight, but the truck would still be under 11k with me fuel, and tools.
Maine has you register the truck for the weight of truck and trailer towing so it’s registered at 26k to be safe. A modern 3/4 ton truck registered at 10k with a couple guys in it is overweight. The state police love to pull over people hauling big boats or atvs with half ton trucks in the summer. Most are not registered for enough weight.

I haven’t been stopped, or even looked at, but I keep the appearance neat and professional on the road. Keep it in the right lane and do the speed limit. Went by an open scale last fall hauling 4 tons of lime, didn’t get pulled over. I try to follow the break only one law at a time rule.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Reading this thread made me think about my combo, and then check the numbers. Last fall bought a Diamond C 24’ deck over tilt trailer, that I tow behind my 2018 Ram 3500 CCSB 6.7L. The trailer tag is 14,900 LBS and the truck is 11,700 lbs, so on paper I’m over. Great!

I’d never weigh that as I don’t think I’d ever get the truck close to 11,700 lbs. If I put the mini ex on the trailer I’d be close at maxing out the trailer weight, but the truck would still be under 11k with me fuel, and tools.
Maine has you register the truck for the weight of truck and trailer towing so it’s registered at 26k to be safe. A modern 3/4 ton truck registered at 10k with a couple guys in it is overweight. The state police love to pull over people hauling big boats or atvs with half ton trucks in the summer. Most are not registered for enough weight.

I haven’t been stopped, or even looked at, but I keep the appearance neat and professional on the road. Keep it in the right lane and do the speed limit. Went by an open scale last fall hauling 4 tons of lime, didn’t get pulled over. I try to follow the break only one law at a time rule.

You're most likely over 11k lbs towing a mini with proper tongue wieght. Newer diesels seem to run around 5k lbs on the front tires, then rear coming in at 6k wouldn't be crazy at all, especially if you have a transfer tank or and heavy stuff in the bed.