Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

[gt1guy]

All the travel

I'm assuming there's a set of LCA's that are not visible in that vid?

 

[arse_sidewards]

JR4X brings up a good point, my uppers stop just below my fuel cell in my trail car. The packaging to fit a Watts link like that would make life pretty difficult.

Seems like packaging would be way better on street driven trail rigs where the uppers in 4-link are competing with a fuel tank and exhaust for space.

 

[Bebop]

street driven trail rigs

Gay

 

[snivilous]

Videos from the guy who did the watts setup. Dude does a lot of cool shit.

 

[tracyb]

Bebop sent me an Instagram link to some kind of SxS style chassis with an LS hooked to what I believe was a CVT and the engine looked so disproportionate to the rest if the car that other than being a wheelie machine it looked useless.

iirc- when the pro R came out and revealed they broke the 1000cc standard. Robby teased and said they where taking orders for LS powered speed cars. something along the lines of -if your going to break the rules, we're all in.

also seen this PROFORMANCE V8 4X4 FLAT PACK BUGGY - YAMAHA YXZ BILLET DIFFERENTIAL - YXZ BILLET REAR DIFF - YXZ BILLET DIFF UPGRADE

Centrifugal blowers give you relatively instant boost, pulley changes are simple and yes, most are bolt on. But you still have to match the exhaust to the engine. You still have to build the engine for boost. Nothing is free.

You can do some wild shit with turbos too. I think it was the old unlimited group C rally cars that had volume tanks tied into the system. Dumping a bit of fuel into the cylinder on the exhaust stroke just before the exhaust valve closes allows the fuel to ignite behind the valve and spool up the turbo faster.

None of this belongs in a off road race car though.

Now a N/A IR intake, monitoring all 8 cylinders with the right ECU is an awesome solution for just about anything

have you seen what they do with the new Mav R for turbo spool. i cant remember off the top of my head but there is some fuckery with the fueling, and cutting a cylinder or somethign along those lines.




edit* also someone said sxs diffs dont go boom? on going on my 3rd front diff in my x3. first 2 factory units one internal fail, second blew the housing apart. for the third diff i sent it off to sandcraft to put in a locker and 'bulletproof' it.

i do have the visco-lok diff but even my buddy with the smartlok grenaded his.

the front diff offering for the x3 from the link above is interesting too. uses d35 gears and accepts the much bigger rear cv's

CAN AM X3 BILLET DIFF | proformance

www.proformance.com.au

 

[Bebop]

iirc- when the pro R came out and revealed they broke the 1000cc standard. Robby teased and said they where taking orders for LS powered speed cars. something along the lines of -if your going to break the rules, we're all in.

You'll see it in 7 years

have you seen what they do with the new Mav R for turbo spool. i cant remember off the top of my head but there is some fuckery with the fueling, and cutting a cylinder or somethign along those lines.

It's called anti-lag.
1990s rally technology. Very good.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

You'll see it in 7 years

It's called anti-lag.
1990s rally technology. Very good.

I remember reading anti lag is hell on turbos. Curious what can am did to combat this?

 

[Bebop]

I remember reading anti lag is hell on turbos. Curious what can am did to combat this?

No idea.
It's hard on everything, valves, o2 sensors, manifolds, turbos,...

I'm assuming they just sized the parts for the application?

 

[Hatz33]

Do any current KOH cars run individual cyl o2's? Could have sworn you could do individual cylinder on a Dominator?

I think you could get it good enough for what it's for on the dyno with good data acquisition, then be good enough on one or 2 o2's. Look at cylinder to cylinder and tune around the lazy one. This isn't razor edge every last fraction of a HP counts like drag racing or F1. Goal 1 is keep it alive, decent useable power is second.

You're point about someone on the team to manage data is important. I see so many guys with powerful ECU's roaming the pits looking for someone with a laptop to help them. Much less understand the basics of what that ECU is doing.

My 4800 car has 8 O2 sensors. The original idea was to be able to shut down individual cylinders if the ECU saw them leaning out (clogged injector) or going super rich (fouled plug, broken plug wire). However, I have not set that up and have only used all 8 readings for setting each injector trim. I don't think my ECU has the capability to shut off cylinders, but I have not put much time into it. This is on a MegaSquirt ECU.

 

[arse_sidewards]

My 4800 car has 8 O2 sensors. The original idea was to be able to shut down individual cylinders if the ECU saw them leaning out (clogged injector) or going super rich (fouled plug, broken plug wire). However, I have not set that up and have only used all 8 reading for setting each injector trim. I don't think my ECU has the capability to shut off clyinders,

Can you set the fuel injector duty cycle to 0 to cover the ignition not working case and retard the ignition to be at TDC on exhaust stroke to cover the fuel injector not working case?

 

[Bebop]

Can you set the fuel injector duty cycle to 0 to cover the ignition not working case and retard the ignition to be at TDC on exhaust stroke to cover the fuel injector not working case?

No closed loop per each hole on Tuner Studio.

 

[Bebop]

My 4800 car has 8 O2 sensors. The original idea was to be able to shut down individual cylinders if the ECU saw them leaning out (clogged injector) or going super rich (fouled plug, broken plug wire). However, I have not set that up and have only used all 8 readings for setting each injector trim. I don't think my ECU has the capability to shut off cylinders, but I have not put much time into it. This is on a MegaSquirt ECU.

What are you using as far as O2 controller ?

 

[mjlogan88]

No closed loop per each hole on Tuner Studio.

Edit: my bad you said closed loop. I'm not certain but I could have sworn MS3 was capable of individual closed loop

 

[mjlogan88]

My 4800 car has 8 O2 sensors. The original idea was to be able to shut down individual cylinders if the ECU saw them leaning out (clogged injector) or going super rich (fouled plug, broken plug wire). However, I have not set that up and have only used all 8 readings for setting each injector trim. I don't think my ECU has the capability to shut off cylinders, but I have not put much time into it. This is on a MegaSquirt ECU.

That's cool to hear someone's running MegaSquirt out there. I had a great experience with it and am tempted to run it on my current build vs be a holley sheep

 

[Hatz33]

What are you using as far as O2 controller ?

I have two AEM 4-Channel Wideband UEGO AFR Controllers, they broadcast the AFRs through the CAN output to get data into the MS3Pro.

Can you set the fuel injector duty cycle to 0 to cover the ignition not working case and retard the ignition to be at TDC on exhaust stroke to cover the fuel injector not working case?

To my knowledge, no. The ECU only adjusts "overall" fueling based on one AFR from each bank and the individual cylinders are just trimmed up or down from a baseline. Hopefully that explanation makes sense.

To really take advantage of all 8 O2s to save a motor melting down I think my firmware would have to be written, not sure if other ECUs already have that feature written in.

That's cool to hear someone's running MegaSquirt out there. I had a great experience with it and am tempted to run it on my current build vs be a holley sheep

I go back and forth. It'd be great to have it in a more waterproof case.

 

[Hatz33]

Yes, and yes. I never drove it besides just moving it around in the pits, because (as I mentioned somewhere before) I couldn't physically drive it, Tim is a big dude and my feet were a good 6" away from the pedals with even just the lap belt on. Which did make the wiring a little easier to access though...

The cambered solid front axle was a fun experiment, and by all measure was a noticable improvement. I'm curious if anyone else has really messed with that idea. Between that and swapping the front diff from a spool to an aggressive LSD (Wavetrac if I remember right), that version of the car with the NA Coyote definitely had the most consistent success and Tim loved how it handled. He overalled several races at our local track (Line Mountain, home turf for Erik Miller and the Blylers).

I'd definitely be interested to know if anyone else is playing with solid axle camber. The same idea is part of what led me to go TTB iny buggy, more tire contact patch during cornering.

Any feedback on how it handled at speeds over 60mph? Or into the triple digits?

 

[Bebop]

I have two AEM 4-Channel Wideband UEGO AFR Controllers, they broadcast the AFRs through the CAN output to get data into the MS3Pro.

10-4

To really take advantage of all 8 O2s to save a motor melting down I think my firmware would have to be written, not sure if other ECUs already have that feature written in.

Not in the consumer grade offering as far as I know.
Legit motorsport options do have it.

I go back and forth. It'd be great to have it in a more waterproof case.

Someone is working on it.

 

[mjlogan88]

Someone is working on it.

this?

 

[Hatz33]

Not in the consumer grade offering as far as I know.
Legit motorsport options do have it.

What do you consider the breakover to non-consumer grade, price or availability to the public?

I am curious to know what the options are as I have been kicking around the idea or re-working some of my wiring, ECU, and improving sensors.

 

[Bebop]

this?

Correct.
I've got a test unit coming.

What do you consider the breakover to non-consumer grade, price or availability to the public?

Anything that requires custom firmware.

I am curious to know what the options are as I have been kicking around the idea or re-working some of my wiring, ECU, and improving sensors.

It really depends what you want.
But Holley, Haltech, Link, Life Racing, Motec, Magnetti Marreli, Cosworth, Pectel, Bosch Motorsports, etc. have different offerings that may suit what you want to do.
You'll have to define your objectives, skills and budgets to make it happen.

 

[Isdtbower]

Sometimes we need to go back and see where we were. I was hooked into helping figure out a KOH capable IFS. So the work began to fnd out as much as "we" could . We kept track of all the builds and builders. This was back in the Pirate days when tech was discussed so you had a chance of succeeding. This was the "list" by 2016. At that time it was getting impossible to keep up. We all covered a lot of ground for the basics. Portals were already explored and pushing the tech. But the hunt for speed, HP, and tire size just means bigger.

6/23/2016 Listing


Unicorn 555 Alex Wacker.............Mike Aiello - DSI/Trent Fab - Wyatt Pemberton - EZ Rick Mooneyham - Unicorn - now Alex Wacker
Sputnik.....................................Armada - Weismann centers and xfer case AWD - Racing in Indonesia - Sputnik
Cody Wagoner 48........................Armada - IFS/IRS - Weismann - Portals
Randy Ellis 10.............................Randy Ellis - Campbell - a OG13 car? - GM diffs and outers -Nitrous - Red Racer -
Shannon Campbell 1st IFS car.......Campbell - 2002? Now Brian Subreras??
Shannon Campbell 5....................Campbell - ProAm - Dragon Slayer
Wayland Campbell 3....................Campbell - ProAm - previous Shannon
Brian Subreras............................Campbell - ProAm - Two seater - Original Campbell IFS Car?
Levi Shirley 81............................Campbell - ProAm
Bill Baird 5252............................Campbell / Baird - ProAm - The Beast
Jason Shipman 4414....................Campbell
Gary Ferravanti Jr 44...................Ferrivanti - Sandy Cone - Wild West
Tom Wayes 321..........................Fishmouth - Scherer - WildWest. Recently reworked. - Tinkerbell on steroids
Jason Scherer 76.........................Fishmouth - Scherer - Wild West - The Gavel
George Kane 21...........................Fishmouth - Shaffer - Scherer - others - Lance Clifford original ride - Front engine
Marcos Gomez 4486.....................Fishmouth - Roggie (New probable soon below)
Loren Healy 67 ...........................Jimmy's - Armada IFS - 2015 - Red Dragon
Loren Healy SA............................Jimmys Straight Axle car to replace Red Dragon IFS is now for sale. New. IFS TT started 2/2016
Paul Horschel (for sale)................Jimmys 2014 - Tubeworks kit 2013 - Horschel
Paul Horschel 19..........................Jimmys/Horschel - Tubeworks IFS Portals 2016- SA rear Tubeworks planetary - (Charged)
Jon Cagliero 27............................Jimmys - Tubeworks kit 2013 - Loren Healy first IFS car
Andrew McLaughlin 4493................Jimmys - Tubeworks kit 2013 - LetzRoll
Joe Varga 2727............................Jimmys
Rick Deremo 33...........................Jimmys
Shane Chiddix 7777......................Jimmys - Jan 2016 -
Nick Nelson.................................Jimmys - Tubeworks first kits - Sold to ?????
Ryan Stambaugh..........................Jimmys IFS kit 2016 -Brink (Alberta)
Hal Deschamp 4445......................Jimmys chassis -Deschamp built IFS - 2015?
Greg Adler 1010...........................Kirby - Trailgear - Matt Messer Original
Ben Napier 4461...........................Penhall
Alex Wacker.................................Penhall
Raul Gomez 4483..........................Joe Thompson
JP Gomez 4482.............................Joe Thompson
Brent Goegebuer 4473...................Trent Fab - TJ Flores 80 -
Darren Henke 4441.......................Trent Fab
Rowdy Trubenbach 3006.................Tribe (?)
Clay Gilstrap 26............................Tribe - Chicky Barton Oriiginal
Jeff Russel...................................John Renolds - UFO - "Elite Fabricator"
Desert Concepts 4454.....................JT Stevens - Dave Cole Car - Original
Starfighter 333....... ......................Starfighter on Pirate (Laprosconic) - 2014 - epic public build
Mike Klensin 4431..........................Klensin/ Colecar Motorsports - Wild West - Timmy
Gary Ferrivanti Jr/Jr.......................Colville car??
Mike Colville 4418..........................Now Ferrivanti JR????
Chris Coughlin 131 Pegasus..............Coughlin - IFS/IRS - Pegasus - Pirate General discussion 1896162 - 2015
JT Taylor TTB ...............................Schaffer - Torchmate Midnight Crew including Jesse Haines
Axel Bermann (Belguim) 68.............Offroad-Armoury, UK - Rob Butler - 2016
Pete Antunac (Aus) 679...................IFS/IRS portal - OPW inhouse - 2016
Brad Falin 457...............................IFS/IRS/Hummer portals - Bradley Race Works - reworked rear to SA/portal & Diesel - 2015
Tim Cameron................................Cameron Built - Moneymaker Bouncer - Dismantled
Brian Caprara 9901........................


IN PROGRESS-------Plan to be completed Jan 2017-----Racing or Recreational

Jordan Townsend 4580............Bill Baird chassis - ProAm based IFS - In progress 6/2016
Eric Brink.............................Jimmys IFS kit 2016 - Brink, Alberta - In progress 6/2016
Marcos Gomez......................Joe Thompson - IFS/IRS In progress 6/2016
Owner Unknown....................Jesse Haines - IFS/IRS portals - Rolling Chassis only. To be finished by owner.
Todd Romano........................Armada/Bomber IFS - Randy Slawson OB for Tim Cameron - In Las Vegas finishing for Todd.
Casey Currie........................ U4 Birdies Quietly?
Loren Healy TT......................Jimmys...Blew TT motor leading at Glen Helen installed in U4 car. 6/2016


RECREATIONAL - TRAIL - CRAWLER - CHALLENGE - NOTEABLE
Pat Gremillion CJ......................IFS/IRS/ Hummer Portals - 2009 - Gremillion - an original from the Pull-Pal Landshark
Ken Lock.................................OCB - Orange County Buggy - CJ - IFS -Semi Swingarm IRS - 2014-15
John Mosley.............................Mosebilt - IFS/IRS special with some Toyota parts - Plus a few progressive builds in progress
Mark Underwood 22..................SOCALMARK - Portal IFS - Raced KOH and now rec wheeling it - 2014?
Maui MAtt................................John Hall /Maui Matt IFS Bronco !! - 2010 - 1000hp Front Engine - was for sale
Casey Currie JK crawler.............Casey Currie modified from Mitch Funk/Brenthal - SEMA Battle of the Builders - prototype - 2015-16
Walker....................................S10 IFS buggy - Crawler -
Garand Engineering, NZ..............IFS/IRS Humvee parts - More IFS 4x4 biulds
Brad Falin TT/4400.....................Falin - Hummer portal IFS modified - Rear motor - Big Car - Runs Vorra - 2012?
Amanda JK...............................Seen at SEMA


PRO4 IFS Players Builders, Drivetrain suppliers, ------- (HELP!!!! If you want)

Fortin - Weismann -


4x4 IFS Trophy Truck, Trick Truck -----------(Help!!!!!! If you want)

Herbst/Smith............................Terrible Herbst........................
Manx looking car original..?.....
Big Mac Nissan........................Nissan - Scoop Vessels - Carl Renezeder - More IFS 4x4 biulds
Justin Matney..........................Geiser - Fortin IFS center - Weismann Xfer case - Howe steering
Nick Nelson.............................Nelson - Weismann IFS center and xfer case - Facebook
Shannon Campbell................... 4x4 Class1 - ProAm IFS - Big Car 2 seat - Shannon/Nick
Proformance (Aus)....................IFS/IRS -

 

[tracyb]

at the bottom of that list i see proformance.

what they have been up to has interested me for a long time. sxs on steriods it seems
i've linked them berfore

PROFORMANCE V8 4X4 FLAT PACK BUGGY - YAMAHA YXZ BILLET DIFFERENTIAL - YXZ BILLET REAR DIFF - YXZ BILLET DIFF UPGRADE

Flat Pack - V8 4X4 Buggy - YXZ Billet Rear Diffs - Predator V8 Buggy - YXZ Diff Upgrade - Proformance Motorsport - YXZ Diff

www.proformance.com.au

they been to the states?

 

[bdkw1]

at the bottom of that list i see proformance.

what they have been up to has interested me for a long time. sxs on steriods it seems
i've linked them berfore

PROFORMANCE V8 4X4 FLAT PACK BUGGY - YAMAHA YXZ BILLET DIFFERENTIAL - YXZ BILLET REAR DIFF - YXZ BILLET DIFF UPGRADE

Flat Pack - V8 4X4 Buggy - YXZ Billet Rear Diffs - Predator V8 Buggy - YXZ Diff Upgrade - Proformance Motorsport - YXZ Diff

www.proformance.com.au

they been to the states?

The owner has been up here but that car hasn't. That thing is a back breaker with negative ground clearance at full bump.

 

[snivilous]

at the bottom of that list i see proformance.

what they have been up to has interested me for a long time. sxs on steriods it seems
i've linked them berfore

PROFORMANCE V8 4X4 FLAT PACK BUGGY - YAMAHA YXZ BILLET DIFFERENTIAL - YXZ BILLET REAR DIFF - YXZ BILLET DIFF UPGRADE

Flat Pack - V8 4X4 Buggy - YXZ Billet Rear Diffs - Predator V8 Buggy - YXZ Diff Upgrade - Proformance Motorsport - YXZ Diff

www.proformance.com.au

they been to the states?

Reminds me of Aycox Racing. He was running the Proformance ultra narrow differentials and entered KOH 2022 and then dropped off social media and idk what happened to his car. Funky little vehicle, apparently it had a bunch of trick things going on like the winch mounted in the center of the vehicle and stuff? Never saw it in person and it broke a couple miles off the starting line.

 

[Bebop]

That's some big money shit.

 

[cdemart2]

at the bottom of that list i see proformance.

what they have been up to has interested me for a long time. sxs on steriods it seems
i've linked them berfore

PROFORMANCE V8 4X4 FLAT PACK BUGGY - YAMAHA YXZ BILLET DIFFERENTIAL - YXZ BILLET REAR DIFF - YXZ BILLET DIFF UPGRADE

Flat Pack - V8 4X4 Buggy - YXZ Billet Rear Diffs - Predator V8 Buggy - YXZ Diff Upgrade - Proformance Motorsport - YXZ Diff

www.proformance.com.au

they been to the states?

didn't timmie cameron build an ifs Bouncer with a proformance diffs at some point?

 

[tracyb]

The owner has been up here but that car hasn't. That thing is a back breaker with negative ground clearance at full bump.

so they are more like a sxs than i thought


i know i've had the wind knocked out of me and thought i would spit blood after a few of the bigger sends in an x3

 

[ridered3]

didn't timmie cameron build an ifs Bouncer with a proformance diffs at some point?

Pretty sure that was the Money Maker chassis. It’s still rock bouncering around at the hand of a different owner.

 

[vetteboy79]

Man, I forgot about Bill Baird. He missed a turn at the first RCQ on a pole line ridge and rolled all the way to the bottom, ending up on its side. The car I was pitting for saw it and stopped to check on him, and he just yelled "I'm fine, GO!" I had a couple fun times hanging out with that guy.

Forgot about Mosebilt too, that was a cool machine.

 

[Isdtbower]

By 2016 IFS was pretty much figured out... Maybe 50%, but it stopped a lot of guys really throwing stuff down the rat hole. And figuring it out that it was not your dads Chevy. I was surprised that much of the old Pirate could be searched. It is just tedious. But the history is there. Those entering the IFS/IRS box today have a wayyy better chance to finish something useable. We all felt like what we were trying was obsolete before finishing. (I still haven't). Typical was.........