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Ford KP 60 big brake conundrum

lagunaMS

lagunaMS

4 by drive
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Nov 25, 2020
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Dixie
Doing a SAS on a 97 Chevy k1500, using an 89 ford kp60. I was going to use the lugnut4x4 3/4 ton brake kit with 12.5" rotors and jb6 calipers

I had initially bought a ribbed drum brake 14b for the rear but later found a disc brake 14b from a 01 2500hd gasser

IMG_9374.jpeg


I emailed lugnut4x4 to ask him about needing a proportioning valve when running discs front and rear and he said the calipers on this axle are too large to run in the rear (assuming he means along with his kit) and I should use the drum 14b and convert it to discs with ebrake calipers

I've never heard a good thing about eldorado calipers and not gonna run those. I want to use this disc 14b because it's newer, better brakes, and factory ebrake. Already ordered my tcase SYE so not doing a driveline e brake either.

Can a proportioning valve not solve the brake size offset between the 2 axles?

There is this kit from torq motor sports (who I've read a lot of negative about) that uses 09+ dodge brakes. Besides having to get the hubs machined for the rotors to fit, this seems like a good option. these are yuge brakes and might work better in conjunction with the disc brake rear.

Ford Dana 60 Kingpin Big Brake Brackets (17 Inch Wheel) – Torq Motorsports

torqmotorsports.com torqmotorsports.com

Truck will be on 38s and I'd like to have as good or better brakes than I have currently which are pretty fucking good. Planning to get rid of ABS at the same time. Also have a hydro boost master cyl laying around but still need a new brake pedal and p/s pump to use it. Was gonna convert to hydroboost later unless sooner is better

What do now?
 
so the hydro boost is pretty simple and you will be surprised at how little room it requires. pull vacuum booster and this goes in its place. maybe a few inches longer. maybe not. the P pump on factory engines should run the hydro boost and steering. just make sure there is a separate line going to res for hydro boost. so me. i would do hydro boost now while your working all these things out. you will love the brakes you get from that. but this is my 2 cents.

i would not stress proportioning valve yet. can always get one later.

i agree with you about the new 14 bolt and use them brakes also.

and do you need the big brake kit? what brakes are on the KP axle now? again just asking
 
chaplinfj60 said:
so the hydro boost is pretty simple and you will be surprised at how little room it requires. pull vacuum booster and this goes in its place. maybe a few inches longer. maybe not. the P pump on factory engines should run the hydro boost and steering. just make sure there is a separate line going to res for hydro boost. so me. i would do hydro boost now while your working all these things out. you will love the brakes you get from that. but this is my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Good to know, I think the hardest part will be swapping out the brake pedal
chaplinfj60 said:
i would not stress proportioning valve yet. can always get one later.

i agree with you about the new 14 bolt and use them brakes also.

and do you need the big brake kit? what brakes are on the KP axle now? again just asking
Click to expand...
I don't think I need the big brake kit, no. But what the guy at lugnut said got me thinking it's necessary so I don't have bigger calipers/more brake bias in the rear

The ford axle doesn't have any brakes now, I chunked the calipers but still have the brackets for it in case the ford brakes wind up being the best option.
 
i have only done one HB swap and i was able to use the same pedal. the rod that goes between the pedal and to HB may need to be adjusted because it could be different than that of the one from VB thats currently on there.

i dont have a dog in the fight but myself would try the factory brakes first. they are pretty big at least my kingpin dodge ones are.
 
dOnt even bother with a prop valve and just get a brake psi reducer.

Hrd line the front and install the adjustble reducer on the rear.

For slightly more wilwood does make a prop valve with an adjustable reducer built in.

the master cyl volume is the most important part.

People have argued disc/disc bullshit for 2 decades now, they fuck with and fuck with 10 different master cyls and prop valves, none of that shit is neccassary. Volume is what counts.
 
There are few big brake caliper mounting brackets available for kingpin axles now.

How about keeping 14b's brake matched to the front?

www.wfoconcepts.com

78-91 Ford 60 Brake Brackets, Fits Chevy HD Brakes and ABS | WFOConcepts.com

Find 78-91 Ford 60 Brake Brackets, Fits Chevy HD Brakes and ABS at WFOConcepts.com
www.wfoconcepts.com

or going even bigger, which will require 17" wheels or larger. NWF, and Torq Motorsports sells them.
 
I ran the stock dual piston ford calipers in front and the stock 2004 3/4 ton 14 bolt calipers in the rear of my '99 3500 and the brakes were perfect. Rear locked up just a hair before the front. It had excellent brakes running 40" TSL's.

Stock hydroboost, stock master cylinder and stock proportioning valve. Truck was originally crew cab long bed dually, lopped 3' off the bed when I swapped the disk brake rear in.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
i have only done one HB swap and i was able to use the same pedal. the rod that goes between the pedal and to HB may need to be adjusted because it could be different than that of the one from VB thats currently on there.

i dont have a dog in the fight but myself would try the factory brakes first. they are pretty big at least my kingpin dodge ones are.
Click to expand...
Nice, I guess once everything is apart it only makes sense to do hydroboost too. Idk why I didn't even consider using stock ford brakes :homer: seems like that's worth trying
total newb said:
dOnt even bother with a prop valve and just get a brake psi reducer.

Hrd line the front and install the adjustble reducer on the rear.

For slightly more wilwood does make a prop valve with an adjustable reducer built in.

the master cyl volume is the most important part.

People have argued disc/disc bullshit for 2 decades now, they fuck with and fuck with 10 different master cyls and prop valves, none of that shit is neccassary. Volume is what counts.
Click to expand...
Didn't even know that was a thing. Thanks, I'll look those up and get one on the way
TrailTamer said:
There are few big brake caliper mounting brackets available for kingpin axles now.

How about keeping 14b's brake matched to the front?

www.wfoconcepts.com

78-91 Ford 60 Brake Brackets, Fits Chevy HD Brakes and ABS | WFOConcepts.com

Find 78-91 Ford 60 Brake Brackets, Fits Chevy HD Brakes and ABS at WFOConcepts.com
www.wfoconcepts.com

or going even bigger, which will require 17" wheels or larger. NWF, and Torq Motorsports sells them.
Click to expand...
I almost made a thread here yesterday after I read your thread on pbb. Would be nice to have matching brakes. How did your dodge brakes turn out?
lt1yj said:
I ran the stock dual piston ford calipers in front and the stock 2004 3/4 ton 14 bolt calipers in the rear of my '99 3500 and the brakes were perfect. Rear locked up just a hair before the front. It had excellent brakes running 40" TSL's.

Stock hydroboost, stock master cylinder and stock proportioning valve. Truck was originally crew cab long bed dually, lopped 3' off the bed when I swapped the disk brake rear in.
Click to expand...
Awesome, looks like I'll be giving the ford brakes a whirl
BigWheel said:
Run hydroboost and the willwood proportion valve.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the way to go, thanks
 
Frig his brake calipers, he's just trying to sell you something.

I'm running those 14 bolt calipers in the rear of my rig work great. Hydroboost.

They are the front 1/2 ton 1500 calipers... Just in the rear.

I'm running the stock 81' big dually bendix calipers upfront.

I'm running my set up through a standard PV4 combination (prop valve)
GM late model 1 7/16 master cyl.
 
He's right... the volume and PSI of his front calipers are no match for the rear you have... but why go smaller on both? I have one rig with 15" wheels these days... everything else is 17" + (that's what she said!) :flipoff2:

Mid year + factory Ford is.... so is later model Chevy/Dodge.

I'd do big brakes in the front and run the disk rear 14B. Do the Hydroboost, master and a normal disk/disk prop valve (no ABS), from the same truck, dual piston front: Chevy, Dodge or Ford.

I've done the WFO Brackets and 2000ish Chevy brakes on Ford axles. The pic is from my YJ, with a Ford Dana 44, but the spindle bolt pattern's the same. I also have the same WFO set up on the Ford king pin 60 in my Volvo 740 Wagon. Something to be said for slip fit rotors.

Now doing 2009ish Dodge brakes on a GM 60 with a complete ECGS kit.

Oh and 2021 Ford F150 calipers that have an electric parking brake and Cadillac 8 lug rotors on my ribbed drum brake model C&C 14B.

irate4x4.com

Bucket - the CJ8 light mod - another build.

So, I've been a CJ guy most of my life. I've had several. Built many for others. I had one CJ8, that a crazy ex of mine put into a telephone back in my very, very poor days. So, this one's named Bucket, because the 51 year old version of me can build the "bucket Jeep" my 20 something version...
irate4x4.com irate4x4.com
 

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79 ford d60 with chevy outers(big single piston calipers of 1985 d60 iirc) and 06 14 bolt with its stock dual piston calipers on my blazer. Using master cylinder off of 99 c3500 with disc/disc option with no prop valve or anything. Brakes work awesome and like mentioned above rears lock up just a hair sooner than the fronts.
 
total newb said:
dOnt even bother with a prop valve and just get a brake psi reducer.

Hrd line the front and install the adjustble reducer on the rear.

For slightly more wilwood does make a prop valve with an adjustable reducer built in.

the master cyl volume is the most important part.
Click to expand...
More info on the brake pressure reducer?
 
Winchested said:
Frig his brake calipers, he's just trying to sell you something.

I'm running those 14 bolt calipers in the rear of my rig work great. Hydroboost.

They are the front 1/2 ton 1500 calipers... Just in the rear.

I'm running the stock 81' big dually bendix calipers upfront.

I'm running my set up through a standard PV4 combination (prop valve)
GM late model 1 7/16 master cyl.
Click to expand...
That's the vibe I got too. Good to know they work well, thanks
Grendel said:
He's right... the volume and PSI of his front calipers are no match for the rear you have... but why go smaller on both? I have one rig with 15" wheels these days... everything else is 17" + (that's what she said!) :flipoff2:

Mid year + factory Ford is.... so is later model Chevy/Dodge.

I'd do big brakes in the front and run the disk rear 14B. Do the Hydroboost, master and a normal disk/disk prop valve (no ABS), from the same truck, dual piston front: Chevy, Dodge or Ford.

I've done the WFO Brackets and 2000ish Chevy brakes on Ford axles. The pic is from my YJ, with a Ford Dana 44, but the spindle bolt pattern's the same. I also have the same WFO set up on the Ford king pin 60 in my Volvo 740 Wagon. Something to be said for slip fit rotors.

Now doing 2009ish Dodge brakes on a GM 60 with a complete ECGS kit.

Oh and 2021 Ford F150 calipers that have an electric parking brake and Cadillac 8 lug rotors on my ribbed drum brake model C&C 14B.

irate4x4.com

Bucket - the CJ8 light mod - another build.

So, I've been a CJ guy most of my life. I've had several. Built many for others. I had one CJ8, that a crazy ex of mine put into a telephone back in my very, very poor days. So, this one's named Bucket, because the 51 year old version of me can build the "bucket Jeep" my 20 something version...
irate4x4.com irate4x4.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the details. And I think you're right, i wound up ordering the WFO brackets you posted so I can have brakes from the same model truck front and rear like trail tamer suggested

I'll keep my stock ford brake stuff for the other axle I have that's going into a bumpside later
Rennat_2006 said:
79 ford d60 with chevy outers(big single piston calipers of 1985 d60 iirc) and 06 14 bolt with its stock dual piston calipers on my blazer. Using master cylinder off of 99 c3500 with disc/disc option with no prop valve or anything. Brakes work awesome and like mentioned above rears lock up just a hair sooner than the fronts.
Click to expand...
Awesome. I'm just trying to figure out the pedal situation now, whether mine can be modified
Or if I need a new pedal. Marketplace is full of auto trucks with hydroboost but mine is a manual.
06h3 said:
More info on the brake pressure reducer?
Click to expand...
This please
 
Meh, 3/16" lines in and out. I really want the rear feed to be bigger, for trucks, since it's one line, split in two.

If you have to go adjustable, it's always on the rear: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spee...ource=CSE&utm_campaign=CSEGOOGLE&gad_source=1

They have larger inputs/outputs - that's me being google lazy.

Thing is, I use and stock these with all the other crap we've already talked about:

www.ebay.com

GM Disc Disc BLACK Aluminum Combination Proportioning Valve Disc Disc Chevy Ford | eBay

This combination proportioning valve is for Disc/Disc applications. T his valve performs all the necessary functions when using disc brakes in the front and disc brakes in the rear. This valve is a great upgrade over the original and is a must when upgrading to 4-way disc brakes.
www.ebay.com

They work really well.
 
Grendel said:
Meh, 3/16" lines in and out. I really want the rear feed to be bigger, for trucks, since it's one line, split in two.

If you have to go adjustable, it's always on the rear: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spee...ource=CSE&utm_campaign=CSEGOOGLE&gad_source=1

They have larger inputs/outputs - that's me being google lazy.

Thing is, I use and stock these with all the other crap we've already talked about:

www.ebay.com

GM Disc Disc BLACK Aluminum Combination Proportioning Valve Disc Disc Chevy Ford | eBay

This combination proportioning valve is for Disc/Disc applications. T his valve performs all the necessary functions when using disc brakes in the front and disc brakes in the rear. This valve is a great upgrade over the original and is a must when upgrading to 4-way disc brakes.
www.ebay.com

They work really well.
Click to expand...
What are the input/output sizes on that combo valve?
 
total newb what does the brake pressure reducer do, other then reduce brake pressure :lmao: like what’s the point and benefit
 
I run those dual rear piston gm brakes on a 3/16" feed from the combo valve. Work mint.
 
06h3 said:
total newb what does the brake pressure reducer do, other then reduce brake pressure :lmao: like what’s the point and benefit
Click to expand...
The same thing as the prop valve and load sense valve on all 1t sqr chevys. Makes it so youre not locking the rears up first.

13"x3.5 gm drw drums are some mean sums a bitches without the drop in psi.
 
Sounds like a bunch of BS. I'm running 99 SuperDuty calipers on all 4 corners with no problem.

It boils down to the booster, MC, and calipers matching. I think if you mess this up you'll either be high and hard, low and spongy, or locking up prematurely on one axle. So there is some science to it.

Don't ask me right now because it's the weekend but a disc/disc prop valve is needed. The disc/drum sometimes has a residual valve which is not wanted. Again I forget the part number but there are a handful of widely used off the shelf combi valves.

I use an adjustable prop valve because I feel like when mix and matching parts you need the adjustability. Not to mention on a Frankenstein vehicle you may need to dial the rear in.

I'm also a fan of bigger brakes and not sure why you would want to go smaller on a 1 ton axle in a full size truck. Unless you are building a buggy downgrading the brakes even on a Jeep swap makes no sense to me.
 
Grendel said:
1/4" and 3/8" are available.
Click to expand...
How does that mount in the engine bay?
Skinny said:
Sounds like a bunch of BS. I'm running 99 SuperDuty calipers on all 4 corners with no problem.

It boils down to the booster, MC, and calipers matching. I think if you mess this up you'll either be high and hard, low and spongy, or locking up prematurely on one axle. So there is some science to it.

Don't ask me right now because it's the weekend but a disc/disc prop valve is needed. The disc/drum sometimes has a residual valve which is not wanted. Again I forget the part number but there are a handful of widely used off the shelf combi valves.

I use an adjustable prop valve because I feel like when mix and matching parts you need the adjustability. Not to mention on a Frankenstein vehicle you may need to dial the rear in.

I'm also a fan of bigger brakes and not sure why you would want to go smaller on a 1 ton axle in a full size truck. Unless you are building a buggy downgrading the brakes even on a Jeep swap makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...
Agreed, with a fullsize on 38s I was wary about going smaller. I'm running 17s so might as well get as big of brakes as I can
 
total newb said:
www.summitracing.com

Wilwood Disc Brakes 260-11179 Wilwood Brake Proportioning Valves | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Wilwood Brake Proportioning Valves with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Brake Proportioning Valves and Distribution Blocks at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com www.summitracing.com
Click to expand...

BigWheel said:
If you want the lines and bracket with it:
www.summitracing.com

Wilwood Disc Brakes 260-13190 Wilwood Brake Proportioning Valves | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Wilwood Brake Proportioning Valves with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Brake Proportioning Valves and Distribution Blocks at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com www.summitracing.com
Click to expand...

Grendel said:
Meh, 3/16" lines in and out. I really want the rear feed to be bigger, for trucks, since it's one line, split in two.

If you have to go adjustable, it's always on the rear: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spee...ource=CSE&utm_campaign=CSEGOOGLE&gad_source=1

They have larger inputs/outputs - that's me being google lazy.

Thing is, I use and stock these with all the other crap we've already talked about:

www.ebay.com

GM Disc Disc BLACK Aluminum Combination Proportioning Valve Disc Disc Chevy Ford | eBay

This combination proportioning valve is for Disc/Disc applications. T his valve performs all the necessary functions when using disc brakes in the front and disc brakes in the rear. This valve is a great upgrade over the original and is a must when upgrading to 4-way disc brakes.
www.ebay.com

They work really well.
Click to expand...
Feel free to call me retarded but wtf is the electrical sensor for

And what does it do vs. just the regular manual turn dial proportioning valves?

And why the combo valve instead of just putting one of these in the rear brake line output?

IMG_9388.png
 
lagunaMS said:
Feel free to call me retarded but wtf is the electrical sensor for

And what does it do vs. just the regular manual turn dial proportioning valves?

And why the combo valve instead of just putting one of these in the rear brake line output?

IMG_9388.png
Click to expand...
If you lose brake fluid, it will turn on an idiot light.

I posted cheaper single line pressure reducers. If you want that.

This valve is designed to dynamically meter pressure, so that your fronts work before your rears, as the OEM's intended.
 
Skinny said:
Sounds like a bunch of BS. I'm running 99 SuperDuty calipers on all 4 corners with no problem.

It boils down to the booster, MC, and calipers matching. I think if you mess this up you'll either be high and hard, low and spongy, or locking up prematurely on one axle. So there is some science to it.

Don't ask me right now because it's the weekend but a disc/disc prop valve is needed. The disc/drum sometimes has a residual valve which is not wanted. Again I forget the part number but there are a handful of widely used off the shelf combi valves.

I use an adjustable prop valve because I feel like when mix and matching parts you need the adjustability. Not to mention on a Frankenstein vehicle you may need to dial the rear in.

I'm also a fan of bigger brakes and not sure why you would want to go smaller on a 1 ton axle in a full size truck. Unless you are building a buggy downgrading the brakes even on a Jeep swap makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...
I agree with this but it does become a problem when working on later model stuff and you’re trying to keep abs and all the other crap. I think my brothers JK is a tad soft and spongey with a 05+ SD60 and AAM10.5 he has the larger master and booster out of a ram. Going with anything else will cause issues from what I understand
 
06h3 said:
I agree with this but it does become a problem when working on later model stuff and you’re trying to keep abs and all the other crap. I think my brothers JK is a tad soft and spongey with a 05+ SD60 and AAM10.5 he has the larger master and booster out of a ram. Going with anything else will cause issues from what I understand
Click to expand...
Considering this thread is about a KP 60. Noone cares about ABS.
 
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