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At what point did you decide to make a "big" tool purchase? (For example: mill, lathe, etc.)

holdmypocket

holdmypocket

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May 24, 2020
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1298
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OC, CA
Hanging out on these forums can be very influential: you learn new things, develop new skills, become aware of better ways and better tools. Reading up/watching the Midnight Panic build by Skipped_Link has me thinking I need a CNC router, mill, lathe, plasma table, etc.

The thing is, I'm not in a line of work related to metal fabrication/racing/etc that would be conducive to me having these tools and using them on a regular basis. I live in a house with a two car garage in the suburbs, I have a couple of rigs/builds and will always be working on something as they go through different iterations over time so I'm trying to gauge what tools I may or may not find worth buying/making space for. With that said, it all just looks fun.

I recently decided I could probably make use of a plasma table after spending 6 hours free-hand cutting plate and welding up a track bar mount. I had designed the part in CAD and was going to use SendCutSend.com but the turn-around time and potential for mistakes (read: wasted effort) deterred me, so I just did it at home. Would have been a lot faster with a plasma table.

What are some similar examples that you ran into enough times that made you go out and purchase something like a mill, or a TIG welder, etc?
 
I usually have a NEED first then I figure out all the ways to achieve it.

My TIG was needed to repair a damaged horse trailer that fell in to my lap, flipping that trailer paid for the welder and made me a few grand in cash.

Other big ticket items were good deals or trades for work. My lathe/mill/drill was like that, then I traded it for the 14x40 lathe and a few hundred.

Plasma table was similar, I am much faster with cad than I am cutting grinding so I scrounged the funds to build the table.

I would need a business plan/idea/product to actually buy a $10k plasma table, no home gamer shit at that level.
 
when did I decide?
it was when I needed it:laughing: the same can be said with everything that I have in the shop
 
Tools or big tools? General tools since I was 12 yo. Been collecting them since then and never stopped, I buy tools probably once to twice a week. Spent couple hundred at the swap meet last Saturday

Big stuff, started in the mid 80’s but it was slow. I buy wood and steel fab tools and machines. Last big purchase is a 20” wood planner in like new condition. I have machines I sell too as I improve them into better condition or bigger machines. I’ll sell my 15” planner now. I have two old school 20” vertical bandsaws. One of those has to go.

I’m up against limited room now. Big machines take up more real estate foot print. I have a stand along building which is my main shop. I have half my basement as a shop. I have machines table saw planners in my attached garage. I need a larger main shop but that’s not going to happen for me. So I’ll work with what I have and I’m good with that.

The reason to purchase big machines besides just wanting them? To open up more opportunities to build things and not be held back because you don’t have the machine or tools to do a certain task.
 
I make half of the decision based on the price of the tool vs how much I'll use it, and the other half justifies taking up that much room in the shop to keep it and all the tooling/materials required to run it. I bought my Bridgeport and lathes because they were extremely cheap and I was moving to a larger space at the time. I'd splurge for the Multi-process machines and stuff that is easily stored in an out building until you need it. And the smaller 10x30 lathe is the one I use most!
 
Once I built my shop, I started collecting machine tools. Started out with a 12x30 Monarch lathe, and a 9x36 or so Bridgeport. Originally was purely a hobby and to make parts for my Jeep or my brother's truck. Started doing side work for a guy, and have slowly grown/upgraded. Now have a 14x40 lathe, a 10x50 Bridgeport clone, a 40x20 Fadal CNC, and a 21x80 lathe. Now I'm upgrading as I can justify. Last big purchase was the big lathe, but next will probably be a much newer CNC. Just need to get more work in to justify it.
 
I buy everything BEFORE I need it.

Watch kijiji/craigslist/myzer/FBmarketplace etc.

Something cool comes up for sale at a killer price? Buy it!

Every dollar I spent isn't gone, it's just not liquid. Buy shit at the lowest price it will ever be.

Since it's usually something I don't NEED it gives me the freedom to either get it for cheap or walk away.

My warehouse is getting a little full though.:homer:
 
Space should definitely play a roll in what you buy. I'm an A/V geek by trade that just happens to have cool kid hobbies. I have a 3 car but it's had an Xterra in the middle of it waiting on wontons for way longer than I'd like to admit. Everything I do is a much bigger hassle than it needs to be at this point due to constantly moving stuff between processes. I've jumped at opportunities so much that there's a plasma table, 60 gal compressor, Mig, Tig, fixture table, 7x12 bandsaw, air/hydro tube bender, drill press and a press/brake all fighting for air in a single bay. Don't burry yourself with stuff to the point that you end up doing less because of the hassle.

Counting down the days to when I can have more room to play.
 
Muckin_Slusher said:
I buy everything BEFORE I need it.

Watch kijiji/craigslist/myzer/FBmarketplace etc.

Something cool comes up for sale at a killer price? Buy it!

Every dollar I spent isn't gone, it's just not liquid. Buy shit at the lowest price it will ever be.

Since it's usually something I don't NEED it gives me the freedom to either get it for cheap or walk away.

My warehouse is getting a little full though.:homer:
Click to expand...
The prices of knee mills and lathes has gone up a couple grand around here since I bought mine around 8 years ago, I always watch the sales ads and every once in a great moon, one will post up cheap but it doesn't last half a day.
 
I daydream and then watch for the price to be reasonable on something thats on my wish list. Usually something is broken and needs fixing so its cheap, or one time I bought a lathe that was "impossible to get out of the building" so it was cheap. I built a big custom roller cart that I assembled under it and then 3 buddies helped me wheel it out of the building and winched it up some stairs.

For the most part its when the deal pops up and then I go for it. The Radial arm drill I just bought was one of those "well thats cool, and its local" deals so I went and bought it.
 
For me, it's the frustration of doing a fabrication project multiple times because I need multiple of the same component. That or shaped metal designs that are super time consuming with an angle grinder, because I grew tired of "squared off" fabrication projects with sheet and structural stuff. That's why I got a plasma table.

Mill similar thing, trying to do projects with grinders and drill presses suck. I reached the limits of my hand tools and upgraded.

Lathe I should have bought first. Farming out driveshaft projects or buying specialty tools is a pain in the ass. Making what I need is much more fun and much more rewarding, although it takes a while, and there is a steep learning curve.

Point is, I reached the limit of what I could do with the hand tools I had in reasonable timeframes, and wanted to keep growing, so I bought better tools.
 
I was hoping for more specific examples that would help me understand the possibilities with different tools and what similar needs I might be able to relate to.

For example:
  • "I bought a mill because I found myself making a lot of x, y, z."
  • "I got a lathe because I need to build something I didn't want to pay or wait for someone else to make."

I already see the utility of a plasma table for myself, but I'm not sure if I would use a mill or lathe enough to justify the purchase. That being said, I still want em :grinpimp:.
 
I don’t understand how someone can build a rig without a mill or lathe. Nothing seems to fit like advertised or the part does not exist.
 
Plasma was easy to justify. Couple of bleep-bloops on a computer and part in-hand is invaluable.

I have a job right now that requires a bunch of sleeves I need turned down to fit into some 1.5" schedule 40. The quotes I'm getting back are right on the tipping point of tooling up vs. farming it out. I always enjoy learning a new potential skill/income generator, but again, where the hell would I put the thing?
 
holdmypocket said:
I was hoping for more specific examples that would help me understand the possibilities with different tools and what similar needs I might be able to relate to.

For example:
  • "I bought a mill because I found myself making a lot of x, y, z."
  • "I got a lathe because I need to build something I didn't want to pay or wait for someone else to make."

I already see the utility of a plasma table for myself, but I'm not sure if I would use a mill or lathe enough to justify the purchase. That being said, I still want em :grinpimp:.
Click to expand...

Ok, specific examples.

I kept blowing out TREs on my D60 high steer arms. I made a fixture in my mill to mill and bore the arms for big ass heims. This project would not be possible any other way.

1710344914670.png


1710344923290.png


Not pictured, welding in chromoloy slugs.

1710344939100.png


Other examples, modifying parts that don't fit correctly, broken fastener or drill extraction, coping tube, slot milling for part alignment or adjustability, etc.

For the lathe, there are a bunch. The few notable ones are building tools (I do this a lot), modifying parts for custom fitments, modifying axle shafts, building driveshafts.

This is cutting splines out of a chromo axle shaft for toyota e-lockers, so that when the shaft twists it isn't permanently locked:

1710345171274.png


Used the mill and lathe to build an indexing driveshaft flange mount, then use the lathe to build or rebuild driveshafts.

1710345354499.png


Or shit as simple as modifying a socket to fit a tight space. Allows me to keep moving on projects instead of searching for some specialty socket that costs money.

1710345425206.png



Finally, the trifecta. Using the plasma table, mill and lathe to build a toyota minitruck rear axle bearing/backing plate puller. This was a fun one, and I don't even own a mini truck, lol. Can't find it right now though, so you're going to have to use your imagination.
 
In recent months I have been ready to pull the trigger on a lathe and mill. I kinda don't have the room to get them in the garage but i will not pass up a deal.

I am tired of spending cash at my local shop. Right now i need 4 .480" 17.7mm bore spacers and my local shop wants $90 plus material costs. Do that 10 times and the next old school lathe on facebook market place is paid for.

I get by with friends and contacts helping me out so its not so bad.

Even if you have to put them in a separate shed as a small baby shop its worth it.

At least once a month over the next few years i either want to get a piece of equipment or be saving up to buy something.
 
Also one thing to mention when buying, try to hold out and find one that comes with as much tooling as you can (chucks, cutters, etc), that stuff adds up in a hurry and a lot of times can get it dirt cheap with the equipment.
 
holdmypocket said:
The thing is, I'm not in a line of work related to metal fabrication/racing/etc that would be conducive to me having these tools and using them on a regular basis. I live in a house with a two car garage in the suburbs, I have a couple of rigs/builds and will always be working on something as they go through different iterations over time so I'm trying to gauge what tools I may or may not find worth buying/making space for. With that said, it all just looks fun.
Click to expand...

Line of work? My day job is as a Registered Architect. Suburbs? I'm on a quarter acre in town. My detached workshop is literally larger than my house. I have a skidloader, mini-ex, plasma table, MIG, TIG, etc, etc, and a bunch of woodworking equipment. Define using tools on a regular basis? I see people spend more time and more money on things like golf or boats or campers, but somehow that's socially acceptable while a building full of tools is a question?

I will say that I have been working part-time at a local automotive shop, so now I'm sort of "in a related line of work," but that is more for access to other tools (we can make use of things after hours) than what I have at home than for employment or career.

CarterKraft said:
I usually have a NEED first then I figure out all the ways to achieve it.
Click to expand...

This and what AlxJ64 said is where the process starts for me. "I need to do x, y, z, what do I need to accomplish that and what is available?" When I started building my workshop I got seven tons of stone delivered and moved it with a shovel and wheelbarrow. Next weekend I was looking at skidloaders. I ran number of renting one here and there and quickly determined that I was going to spend enough renting to consider buying a used one, then I would have it there when I needed it - or "sorta" needed it, and could sell it when I was done. It was absolutely the right decision. I used it a lot more than I had expected and would have spent much more renting one - or damaging myself for the "sorta" jobs I didn't rent it for. But then it ended up being so useful that it is still here twenty-five years later. The mini-ex has been useful too and paid for itself, but will likely get sold once I complete a few more projects to free up space as it is more "specifically" useful than "generally" useful like the skidloader.

Muckin_Slusher said:
Something cool comes up for sale at a killer price? Buy it!
Click to expand...

This too. There are things that I'd like to be able to do but I don't have an immediate need, but if the right deal comes along I want to be in a position to get it.

Chris775 said:
Don't bury yourself with stuff to the point that you end up doing less because of the hassle.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of in this position right now. Other things in life slowed down progress on projects and forced some compromises. I really need to get back to working on some things and getting things in order.

holdmypocket said:
I was hoping for more specific examples that would help me understand the possibilities with different tools and what similar needs I might be able to relate to.
Click to expand...

Pay attention to projects on here, watch YouTube videos, and such. You're going to see projects you want to be able to take on and what tools you're going to need.
  • "Hey, this guy is doing sheet metal work for rust and damage repair. I need to do that with my XXX project. Having YYY tool would do what I need to do."
  • "I'd like to do the upholstery work on my restomod project." Watch YouTube videos about upholstery work. Decide you need a sewing machine, foam cutting tools, and so forth. Start looking at options.
What I may use a mill and lathe for may be quite different from what you would use them for. So pay attention to people doing projects you're interested in and then look at the tools they're using.

Also, once you have a tool you're likely going to find a lot more uses for it than you initially expected. Like the skidloader. I got it to move stone, do grading, and mostly dirt work. But I used it to unload other rental equipment (plate compactor, mortar mixer) from my pickup, lift material to the second floor, and even as a portable scaffold (standing on the ROPS) instead of constantly moving a ladder. Since then it has done landscaping work, cleared snow, moved and unloaded equipment, and helped neighbors with their projects.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
Ok, specific examples.

I kept blowing out TREs on my D60 high steer arms. I made a fixture in my mill to mill and bore the arms for big ass heims. This project would not be possible any other way.

1710344914670.png


1710344923290.png


Not pictured, welding in chromoloy slugs.

1710344939100.png


Other examples, modifying parts that don't fit correctly, broken fastener or drill extraction, coping tube, slot milling for part alignment or adjustability, etc.

For the lathe, there are a bunch. The few notable ones are building tools (I do this a lot), modifying parts for custom fitments, modifying axle shafts, building driveshafts.

This is cutting splines out of a chromo axle shaft for toyota e-lockers, so that when the shaft twists it isn't permanently locked:

1710345171274.png


Used the mill and lathe to build an indexing driveshaft flange mount, then use the lathe to build or rebuild driveshafts.

1710345354499.png


Or shit as simple as modifying a socket to fit a tight space. Allows me to keep moving on projects instead of searching for some specialty socket that costs money.

1710345425206.png



Finally, the trifecta. Using the plasma table, mill and lathe to build a toyota minitruck rear axle bearing/backing plate puller. This was a fun one, and I don't even own a mini truck, lol. Can't find it right now though, so you're going to have to use your imagination.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is the kind of thing content that gets me shopping.. :beer:
 
cj7jeep81 said:
Also one thing to mention when buying, try to hold out and find one that comes with as much tooling as you can (chucks, cutters, etc), that stuff adds up in a hurry and a lot of times can get it dirt cheap with the equipment.
Click to expand...

This is true. I've bought more than one lathe just for the tooling and accessories that came with it....and usually turned around and sold just the machine for the same or a little more.


Biggest thing is that you need to be able to jump on a deal when it pops up and be the first one to get there.

When I bought my little crafstman lathe, I messaged the seller the evening before and said I'd be there first thing in the morning. I left my house at like 4 AM to drive 4 hours to VA beach. There ended up being a bunch of extra tools and tooling and round stock that she didn't mention in the ad. I think the extra tools alone were worth more than I paid for the whole lot, plus the 3-400 pounds of brass, bronze and copper stock were also worth more than that. And that was the one lathe I kept and still use several times a week.

This was all brass with a bit of bronze and copper mixed in.
1710357993826.png
 
bgaidan said:
Biggest thing is that you need to be able to jump on a deal when it pops up and be the first one to get there.
Click to expand...
And be prepared to load and haul whatever you find - plus whatever extra is available.

Like you say about the trip to VA Beach, nothing more depressing than having driven four hours (or more) and having to leave things behind because you had no more room or didn't have the wherewithal to get something out of a basement or field or whatever.
 
Like others said, tooling is expensive, usually more expensive than the machine itself. I got some with my lathe but not much. Zero with the mill. Cheap shars shit to start, then ebay to fill the important roles with quality used stuff, like my aloris tool post.

Loading can be an issue too. I trailered my gantry crane to the place I bought my lathe from. Unloaded the crane, used it to move and load the lathe, then loaded the gantry crane again, all on the same trailer. Unloaded the crane at the house and then unloaded the lathe from the trailer with the crane, lol.

Just figure out a way to do it and get it done.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
Like others said, tooling is expensive, usually more expensive than the machine itself. I got some with my lathe but not much. Zero with the mill. Cheap shars shit to start, then ebay to fill the important roles with quality used stuff, like my aloris tool post.

Loading can be an issue too. I trailered my gantry crane to the place I bought my lathe from. Unloaded the crane, used it to move and load the lathe, then loaded the gantry crane again, all on the same trailer. Unloaded the crane at the house and then unloaded the lathe from the trailer with the crane, lol.

Just figure out a way to do it and get it done.
Click to expand...
And a good example out of how one capability leads to another. A cheap gantry crane left over at sale may not look very appealing but that would allow you to cheaply load and haul something that would be cost prohibitive if you had to rent some equipment.
 
Here's a question, what is the "normal" way to retain tooling in a mill?
Is it Morse taper, or?
Ate there any advantages or disadvantages to a mill that uses collets instead of a Morse taper or something else?

Aaron Z
 
aczlan said:
Here's a question, what is the "normal" way to retain tooling in a mill?
Is it Morse taper, or?
Ate there any advantages or disadvantages to a mill that uses collets instead of a Morse taper or something else?

Aaron Z
Click to expand...
I bet that's a "oil" question...
Morse taper or R8 for home gamers but there's a bunch of other types with similar size.

I didn't buy a VanNorman mill one time at a scrap yard (stupid mistake...) because it used a special van Norman taper and I wasn't smart enough to realize I could get around that several different ways and at worst I could have converted it to a spindle motor.
 
aczlan said:
Here's a question, what is the "normal" way to retain tooling in a mill?
Is it Morse taper, or?
Ate there any advantages or disadvantages to a mill that uses collets instead of a Morse taper or something else?

Aaron Z
Click to expand...

Similar to what Carter said, you want to make sure whatever mill you get has a tooling system that's easy to get tooling, or at least adapters, for. Bridgeport used R8 for a long time so many clones used that size, meaning R8 has tons of tooling available. Direct use drill chucks, drills, R8 collets, R8 to er collet adapters, etc. They're all held in with a draw bar that goes down in through the mill head from the top to the collet or adapter or whatever. Cnc stuff can be pneumatic or hydraulic or unicorn cum, not sure.

Cat style holders are bigger mills and cncs AFAIK. My Bridgeport is R8, so it's easy to get all kinds of stuff.

Def don't just buy a mill and think youll be able to find tooling. Same goes with the lathe, the spindle taper can be common or very, very odd. My leblond L00 taper is common enough to find chucks.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
Similar to what Carter said, you want to make sure whatever mill you get has a tooling system that's easy to get tooling, or at least adapters, for. Bridgeport used R8 for a long time so many clones used that size, meaning R8 has tons of tooling available. Direct use drill chucks, drills, R8 collets, R8 to er collet adapters, etc.

Cat style holders are bigger mills and cncs AFAIK. My Bridgeport is R8, so it's easy to get all kinds of stuff.

Def don't just buy a mill and think youll be able to find tooling. Same goes with the lathe, the spindle taper can be common or very, very odd.
Click to expand...
I think that mill was $350 in scrap price, it was stupid to not buy it even if tooling was a problem.

Keep that in mind when hunting for equipment.
 
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