1980 F350 Farm Truck Re-Build

[Provience]

Not sure if this should be here or in newb, wanting to take pictures so that I can keep track of various things. Feel free to move it if need be or flame the shit out of this thread and i'll move it myself

This just might be the worst truck ever and prices are so high, I've certainly over paid.

1980 F-350 with a 351M granny 4-speed Independent leaf sprung font "ran when parked" at what was possibly the bottom of a river But whatever, I want a pickup with 4wd that I can leave in the middle of nowhere and drive for ~2 weeks out of the year. Carb'd standard trans 4wd fits the bill.

Plan is to get it running and driving nearly as cheap as possible, anything with fluid or a gasket needs to get taken apart and cleaned.

Drug it from the yard into the driveway with my surprisingly not dead yet tow bar and the wife trying to hold the steering wheel. $900 for the truck which lost 1 tire on the drag home, then another just sitting in the yard. $300 for a set of pretty good condition tires and 16" wheels from a 2008 E350. 245/75r16 is pretty much the same exact overall size as the 9.5R16.5 that were on there before.

The centerbore on these wheels is just a touch larger than the 16.5's so there is a bit of space on the front hub, the rear hub is tighter. Be slightly mindful while tightening down the nuts and it seems centered enough.

Overall there isn't much rust. The floor of the bed is rusted to absolute shit and there is a minor hole in the cab. it's kind of odd how bad it can be in some spots yet solid in many others.

various pictures of engine bay things

 

[NORDFORD]

Sub’d. Not sure why, but I like it.

 

[Provience]

among other things, the Distributor wouldn't sit down. Guy swears up and down that he was able to get this thing to idle no problem I dunno, dist won't sit down and there is significant dirt/debris down the hole

Air intake, seems like if it was from insects that there would be holes in or through it but I don't know anything about the stuff. Part of why the wife and I are thinking there is a good chance it got sunk for a bit

Everything on the concrete there came out of the upper radiator hose, the spring had rusted itself apart. Not sure how long that takes

The rear hose barb for the heater core was in two pieces, barb still in the hose and threads still in the block

This red/brown wire goes to the barb coming straight out. should be for the water temp gauge.

These next two are a random wire, going to the other end it is hooked up to an aftermarket "water temp" gauge under the dash. It's a dry intake, so I'm not sure why, and it's carb'd so i'm not sure what they wanted to monitor intake air temps for Blackety black due to functioning EGR

 

[Provience]

Pulled out the garden hose, still need to clean up and dig out the pressure washer, and sprayed the whole thing down. looks better. Sure, it's not sealed up and I just put a bunch of water into the motor....but I can't say i'm doing any damage. Plan is to drain it tomorrow and fill the cylinders up with ATF if I can ever find my spark plug socket had 'em before I moved

Poor old motorcraft, throttle blades are locked solid in there. Part of the reason I went ahead and bought this is that I have a known good intake and 2venturi for this motor, so i'm a couple hundred bucks ahead potentially.

Pictures didn't really come out, but there is very significant amount of rust and debris and general free loose crap in the intake.

and then the mosquitos found my garden hose water and it was time to go inside. Depending on just how bad the cylinders look, it will either get a super cheap and shoddy rebuild, because it doesn't matter if it burns a little oil and won't ever be a street truck again, or i'll be on the hunt for a 390/460 to plop in. Everything that can be is getting form in place gasket instead of spending the money on paper, brakes and tie rods and whatever else is going to end up being cheap rockauto.

wife thinks it's ugly and should be in the scrap yard, i don't think she will find anybody dumb enough to buy it from us, so it may get painted a different color.

all terrain and/or mud tires are way too expensive and at some point i'll get a proper set of chains for the mud and snow as well. Not sure if i'm going to just weld the differentials or try to find a lunchbox locker front/rear

 

[Provience]

Sub’d. Not sure why, but I like it.

Thanks! 5 or 10 years ago it would have been a free or near free truck, it's an absolute pile but it's hopefully dirt simple, or at least going to be made dirt simple as it goes through, I like it but I think it looks neat as it sits


Is there a more simple and betterer setup that is also pretty cheap to replace the ignition with? not sure if it matters, but in the event it won't fire off later on.

edit: Identify Your Ford Truck Axle From The Door Sticker – Blue Oval Trucks

probably have that in my other ford thread, but whateva'

Ford Door Sticker Decoder - Ford-Trucks.com

1. Exterior Paint Color Code2. Region Code3. Special Order Code4. Wheelbase Code5. Brakes Code6. Interior Trim Color Code7. Tape/Paint Pinstripe Code8. Radio Code9. Axle Code10. Transmission Code11. Spring Code Interior Trim Codes: 1 – limited leather sport bucket seats (Explorer)A – Hampton...

www.ford-trucks.com

edit; ignition wiring diagrams Duraspark II -- The Ford V-8 Engine Workshop

edit: $200 at rock auto buying as cheap as possible, front soft brake lines, front caliper rebuild seals, brake master cylinder seals, u-joints for driveshafts and all the steering links.

 

[Provience]

Pictures of taking things apart that I might need when going back together. Don't remember why I took this one

more stuff and nonsense going on inside the intake

Valley pan, lots of evidence of exhaust leak on the left side

under the gasket, some neat sludge buildup

These are the alternator plugs so that I don't forget them later.

Block ground

Other block ground

 

[Provience]

Front bracket stuff

snapped a bolt from the water pump, several of these will need to be helicoiled

looks like this will be a replace rather than a try and save

Exhaust was fabri-cobbled a few times already and rotted into mutiple sections. not sure what or how I'm going to redo it

This big old center section to open up is pretty nifty

Had to use plliers to get enough pressure to push down and rotate the cup-she-bop

and it was at this point I said "should've just pulled the grill", but it did come all the way out. won't be going back in the same way

 

[Provience]

popped the heads off. Passanger side

drivers side

Door tag

and then spent a decent bit of time knocking off mounds of crud off the thing. Had planned on pulling off the Tcase, whoever put it on last used a goodly amount of RTV and it would not let go, wasted too much time messing with it, so it will get some output seals and that's it.

Trans is a NP 435, fluid looked good coming out, some new gaskets and hopefully it won't cake up so bad again once cleaned.

sprayed the pistons with nut-cracker and scrubbed them a little bit, they cleaned up pretty good and it rolls over by hand without any drama, so that's a good sign.

Really not sure what to do with the heads. remaned stock are ~$300 ea, danged aluminum are ~$1300 each. Or do I just want to wire wheel as much crud out of it as I can and call it a day.

$600 sounds pretty reasonable though.

 

[ridenby]

At least you pulled it all out to work on. I thought at first you where going to try all with motor in truck. Think I would wire brush everything. Use a pressure washer to flush block out, anything cheap and simple. Or find a running engine to bolt on and be done. I think you are in texas , surly a pick and pull has a engine that will bolt in for less than $600. Bet the pressure plate/clutch is toast too.

 

[Provience]

At least you pulled it all out to work on. I thought at first you where going to try all with motor in truck. Think I would wire brush everything. Use a pressure washer to flush block out, anything cheap and simple. Or find a running engine to bolt on and be done. I think you are in texas , surly a pick and pull has a engine that will bolt in for less than $600. Bet the pressure plate/clutch is toast too.

I've got to figure out a time to go junk yarding for a window or door, might just make some calls and see what they are getting for complete engines. 351m/400/460 should all fit


edit: looks like 3.5" axle tubes in the rear should confirm it as a Dana 70 instead of 60, door code tag just says "dana" and the rear axle weight rating is 6,250 lbs, so kind of inbetween what most web sites say it should be. soon enough it will be getting uncovered to get new goo in it, still trying to see what can be found for 'cheap' lunchbox/posi/etc.

General Tech - The Dana 70 Bible

Well, pirate seems like a place I'm no longer interested in sharing my tech with, so I'm moving the Bible here! Here is a copy/paste of the bulk of the info I've compiled. I'm going to skim through it and grab any additional useful info I see. Enjoy the tech! -Redd The Dana 70...

www.rme4x4.com

 

[YotaAtieToo]

You are a sick person, punishing yourself on fixing up all these old junkers, you'd think they'd get nicer, but this is definitely the opposite direction

You plan to just leave it at your Idaho property?

 

[Provience]

You are a sick person, punishing yourself on fixing up all these old junkers, you'd think they'd get nicer, but this is definitely the opposite direction

You plan to just leave it at your Idaho property?

The wife said "you keep spending money and we might as well have bought one that runs!" But I'm pretty confident for under 3k this will be running and nearly decent

Yeah that's the plan is to leave it. The motohome should flat tow it, but just and it won't be too happy about it so I don't want to drag a truck multiple times up there and back over the years. Need something I can use to build a couple sheds and leave. Don't thunk anything bad will happen to it, but if it does then this is the perfect candidate to survive a critter attack or arson.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I would just rebuild the heads yourself unless the seats are pitted to absolute fuck. It's cheap and super simple. Don't you have a kid that you can make lap the valves for you?

Is there a more simple and betterer setup that is also pretty cheap to replace the ignition with? not sure if it matters, but in the event it won't fire off later on.

No. Either downgrade to points or carry a spare box. Duraspark is what people swap to when they want a cheap and reliable electronic ignition on their old Ford that originally had points.

edit: looks like 3.5" axle tubes in the rear should confirm it as a Dana 70 instead of 60,

If the cover flange perfectly covers the flange on the diff it's a 60. If the diff flange has a lot of area not covered by the flange on the cover it's a 70

 

[rattle_snake]

You picked a gem for sure. Nothing money and profanity can't fix.

I think you can have a runner within too much pain and suffering. I like old Ford 250/350 pickups.

 

[FordFascist]

I would keep an eye out for a 460 out of the wrecking yard. Put a decent cam in it and you're good to go. The weight is about the same as a 351M and it will bolt in place. You can even find an EFI one and put in a Mustang or Megasquirt to control it. Lots of options.

Otherwise I would tear that 351M down to the block. You are at minimum going to need to check all the crank and rod journals (probably have to polish them), pull the cam bearings, hone the cylinders and re-ring the thing at a bare minimum.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I've heard multiple engine builders say they don't bother pulling cam bearing when refreshing their mildly worked over 1/4mi shit unless there's been some major drama in the oiling system. Likewise I wouldn't bother for a stock refresh that will never see the machine shop.

Putting rings in without a ridge ream is a fool's errand. And if you're gonna ream you may as well hone the thing straight-ish.

 

[FordFascist]

I've heard multiple engine builders say they don't bother pulling cam bearing when refreshing their mildly worked over 1/4mi shit unless there's been some major drama in the oiling system. Likewise I wouldn't bother for a stock refresh that will never see the machine shop.

Putting rings in without a ridge ream is a fool's errand. And if you're gonna ream you may as well hone the thing straight-ish.

For an engine that doesn't have significant rust inside I entirely agree. Agree on the ridge ream as well.

Here is why I think he should tear that thing down if he's intent on using it.

1. 351C/M have a different cam oiling system than Windsors and 385 series. The cam bearings are lubricated directly from the crank journals and thus the likelihood of a catastrophic oiling problem from a loose cam bearing is a real problem. Now would also be the time to put in oil restrictors in the cam oil passages as well.
2. The engine has a shit ton of rust and debris in it.
3. Clean out all of oil galleries religiously, C/M engines have a lot of separate ones that can hide dirt.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Totally forgot about that wonky oiling system because I never deal with Cleveland or M engines.

He might as well throw a cam at it while he has it apart.

 

[Provience]

Some pictures from the driveway today just for kicks

This is today showing the dirt that I got knocked off yesterday with the garden hose, a nylon brush and an old screwdriver as a chisel, made me laugh and still a long way to go before all the bolts are revealed.

Got it at least cleaned up enough to be able to read the Borg Warner 13-45 on the transfer case, this has been replaced at some point during it's life, but a model number makes chasing down output seals more easier.

Rear axle diff cover

and a few minutes of vigorous scrubbing revealed the stamps on the tag. according to Axle Builder | Dana 60 Identification (BOM Lookup) and Dana BOM (Bill Of Material) Numbers – Blue Oval Trucks this is a Dana 61. Ah, the worlds most desirable truck continues to deliver at least it is 1 more than a dana 60, so we've got that going for us

I don't think this Freeze Plug understands what it's one job is

So yeah, shopping on the internet it looks like a re-ring, bearing, plug and gasket kit is going to be ~$400. For some reason junkyards seem to be asking $3-400 just for a core engine, running seem like the sky is the limit when looking up 460's There is a yard near-ish that is decent sized, i'm going to try to swing by Friday after work and hopefully catch them open to see if that is really the case or if it is just internet prices.

Certainly the plan is to tear it all the way down and scrub as dilligently as I can get into. I'm willing to measure the bores and see how much taper or shape they have in them, but I don't actually believe in ridge cutting. Do have a fine 260grit ball home on the way and I plan to give them a couple whacks with that to hopefully break up some glazing or smooth out whatever scoring there happens to be.

As for the heads, as long as the valves come out decent and don't look aggressively scored, guess it makes sense to reuse them. pretty easy to spend a few hundred bucks on valves and guides and might as well do seats.....or give it a whirl and clean it up and never look at it again. The last set of heads I did using wrenches, a hammer and a c-clamp because I couldn't find my valve spring compressor So scratch out $50 minimum to buy another one of those for this as well.

Good point on the cam bearings, I'll be sure to swap those out as well. Planning to strip down to bare block go hard in the paint with various pipe cleaners and other nonsense.

Regarding swapping the cam, I about said "hell no, they are all crazy priced" but FORD Summit Racing SUM-K5200 Summit Racing™ Classic Cam and Lifter Kits | Summit Racing Summit has this cam with new lifters that is better than stock Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 282/292, Lift .486/.512, Ford, 351C, 351M, 400

for some reason they don't list new valve springs that I can find but then they have FORD COMP Cams K32-221-3 COMP Cams High Energy Cam and Lifter Kits | Summit Racing this whole kit Cam/Lifter, Valvetrain, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Adv. Duration 268/268, Lift .494/.494, Ford, 351C, 351M, 400 which is similar, and $500. going to have to chew on that for a bit longer.

 

[TRINDU]

Run down to 195 pick n pull. They had quite a bit 80s/90s fords last time I was there.

 

[ridenby]

Whatever you do with cam, use very good lube on everything. Take your time.

 

[Provience]

Run down to 195 pick n pull. They had quite a bit 80s/90s fords last time I was there.

Used Auto Parts - Hwy 195

they claim open 7 days a week, that's nice. not sure I want to pull my own engine, but for the small stuff (and there is a bunch of that) seems like a good spot. I'm not likely to pull my own axle either, unless I can bring my own torch

Harold's Used Cars & Parts

Quality Used Auto Parts near Briggs, TX. Click or call 800-770-6199 today.

haroldsautoparts.com

harolds isn't too far off either but they are only open 9-5 during the week

 

[TRINDU]

Used Auto Parts - Hwy 195

they claim open 7 days a week, that's nice. not sure I want to pull my own engine, but for the small stuff (and there is a bunch of that) seems like a good spot. I'm not likely to pull my own axle either, unless I can bring my own torch

Harold's Used Cars & Parts

Quality Used Auto Parts near Briggs, TX. Click or call 800-770-6199 today.

haroldsautoparts.com

harolds isn't too far off either but they are only open 9-5 during the week

Harold's was a pick n pull type yard, then they weren't, maybe they are again?

Back in the day they were the only yard around and had cars back to the 30s/40s. Haven't been there in probably a decade when they decide not to let people wander the yard.

I pulled a D60 front from 195. They grabbed and loaded it with a forklift. I tried to tip the driver, and he refused.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Don't be afraid to buy NOS shit. It's not like 99% of the rebuild parts on the market for these engines weren't manufactured and shelved in the 80s-00s just like the stuff being sold as "NOS" was.

Your valvetrain parts are probably fine because they're so caked in sludge. You probably shouldn't be shopping for any cam for which the stock stuff isn't suitable anyway. Valvetrain is so easy to do in-vehicle that you should probably just re-use all the stock stuff for now and then consider doing better after you've got it rebuilt and proven to be running reliably.

Do yourself a favor and throw all the engine parts your disassembling in a 5gal bucket that has a 10:1 mixture of water and animal feed molasses. After life has happened and you've ignored all the parts in there for a month they will be rust free and covered in nasty grime.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Run down to 195 pick n pull. They had quite a bit 80s/90s fords last time I was there.

Do this, pull a 460 and send me all your 351M valve retainers, springs and keepers so I can piece together a set of 8 that look good enough.

 

[IowaOffRoad]

Still not sure why OP didn't just dump diesel/ATF mix down the intake and open spark plug holes, let marinate for a few weeks, bar over by hand, reinstall spark plugs and profit? Would have probably run good enough for a farm truck

 

[Provience]

Do this, pull a 460 and send me all your 351M valve retainers, springs and keepers so I can piece together a set of 8 that look good enough.

Nobody makes an aftermarket cam that can use stock springs

 

[Provience]

Still not sure why OP didn't just dump diesel/ATF mix down the intake and open spark plug holes, let marinate for a few weeks, bar over by hand, reinstall spark plugs and profit? Would have probably run good enough for a farm truck

That was the plan until I started finding more and more junk inside everything.

 

[IowaOffRoad]

That was the plan until I started finding more and more junk inside everything.

The key to getting that junk out is to start on ether and keep the throttle wide open for the first 5 minutes after first fire.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Nobody makes an aftermarket cam that can use stock springs

Can or should? Spring needs are going to mostly be dictated by RPM range and secondly by cam profile. A mild performance cam or an "RV" cam shouldn't really bump the rev range high enough to cause problems with stock valvetrain