1959 GMC 2 ton bus - 4x4 swap

[thatbus]

After a few people in my axle help thread asked for a build thread for the entire bus... Thought I'd get around to making one. So, here we go:

Was initially planning on a Thomas C2 4x4 owned by Schlumberger as a wellhead maintenance crew transport... but that went for many time more than it was worth at auction, so I figured fuck it, I'll just build my own. So, ended up with this guy from Saskatchewan:

Basically rust free by Ontario standards... It's just surface rust, and way less than anything I could find over here that was only 10 years old.

Got working on an interior buildout while I waited for the bus to get here. I'll be living in this thing full-time.

Took delivery of the bus in late August of last year. The curved glass was all intact, which was a nice surprise.
Found out it had a 283 small block, and it runs well, but, the plan has always been to swap to a mechanical diesel. I'm not looking for great fuel economy, but 4 MPG as it was, is terrible...

I began by removing the front axle and fabbing some offset shackles to fit new 47" Chevy springs. Yeah, they're kind of short, but this is budget build, and for a bunch of reasons that involved weird curves in frame, and a shackle hanger integral to the front crossmember, I could not put shackles at the rear and opted to keep them up front. The steering box is beef and it also has great geometry with hardly any bump steer. So, wanted to keep that too.

Railroad track makes a great press punch

Made some new hangers too. Everything's out of 3/8" or 1/2".

Springs up.

Picked up a D60 and redrilled the perches to move the axle 1.25" forward. Bit janky, but everything came out nicely and it ended up sitting perfectly.

 

[thatbus]

Welded up a new tierod, and dranglink too.

Opted for a Sweet Mfg. servo to give the bus some power steering, but with a hydraulic cylinder between the axle/tierod.

Eventually painted and rebuilt the Dana 60, and got that under the bus:

View attachment 529591

Machined a steering arm to replace the old one, and welded up a cap for the opposite side, which both let me delete the weak spring.

I also got a VERY good deal on BFG Bajas + asymmetric 24 bolt H1 wheels and tires. All from 2019. Split rims, so, easier to work on by myself versus 22.5" OTR truck tires, and more road-friendly tread versus other military tires, so good wear resistance. High capacity. Pretty much perfect for my needs.

Getting that axle under the bus was brutal on winter nights - the only time I had free to do that work. Stupid me didn't bother to truss/beef it up, so it'll coming out after I free up some space in my shop...

Finished doing gaskets and seals on this Rockwell T-136-27 airshift case a few days ago, painted it up tonight, but this is how she looked when I got her. Also built an air shifter for high/low range (normally lever operated).

That's about all there is now. Currently looking to downsize the transmission yoke (FS6406A) to a smaller 1550 output to match the t-case, and will be bringing the KP60 home to truss and gusset...

 

[350TacoZilla]

Very cool project man! The only thing I question is the shackle in the front of spring, I know you said you had your reasons but man its a pretty big difference in ride if you can work it out to be in rear of spring even if its a pain to setup that way.
Two things I would think about if you plan on staying with the H1's. I don't see a reason not to as I'm a big fan of them, unless all 16.5's are dead in 5 years like people have been saying for 15 years .
1.Keep an eye out for some goodyear MTR's, while not a big difference performance wise other than snow (small sipes in BFG's help) the MTR's come in both D and E load ratings with a bit higher weight carrying. EDIT: Actually you might already have E load ratings I kept thinking it was the odd spaced 24bolt MTR only with E's.
2.Look into the lightweight PVC inserts or have someone water jet the mohawk off the rubber runflat if thats what your have, otherwise changing the tires and runflats over is a PITA though definitely doable.

 

[thatbus]

Very cool project man! The only thing I question is the shackle in the front of spring, I know you said you had your reasons but man its a pretty big difference in ride if you can work it out to be in rear of spring even if its a pain to setup that way.
Two things I would think about if you plan on staying with the H1's. I don't see a reason not to as I'm a big fan of them, unless all 16.5's are dead in 5 years like people have been saying for 15 years .
1.Keep an eye out for some goodyear MTR's, while not a big difference performance wise other than snow (small sipes in BFG's help) the MTR's come in both D and E load ratings with a bit higher weight carrying. EDIT: Actually you might already have E load ratings I kept thinking it was the odd spaced 24bolt MTR only with E's.
2.Look into the lightweight PVC inserts or have someone water jet the mohawk off the rubber runflat if thats what your have, otherwise changing the tires and runflats over is a PITA though definitely doable.

Thanks man!
Yeah, I'm a big fan of the H1's too. They do everything I want and I've heard the BFGs last a long time. These are the highest load rated wheels/tires that I'm aware of. 4,540lbs each. If there's something higher though, I'm interested, but I figured this combo was as good as it gets for H1's. Will definitely look into the PVC inserts... These have the magnesium ones I believe, not sure how weight compares to the rubber inserts. They seem well balanced, but still heavy though!

Front shackles are that bad eh? With the way the front of the frame dips down with that gusseted spring hanger that's also part of the crossmember, and already having the steering box at the rear it'd be difficult... (box needs to the on he opposite side of the shackles, right?) I'd probably just opt for some sort of link setup if I changed things. Would air assist help? I was thinking of just adding a leaf when I do the diesel swap - it'll need something - but it'd be easy to just throw in some air bags.

 

[ridenby]

Nice bus. No toilet? I do like shitting in the dry. As for front I think air bags with the springs would be the way to go. Use air bags in rear also.
Good work.

 

[thatbus]

Nice bus. No toilet? I do like shitting in the dry. As for front I think air bags with the springs would be the way to go. Use air bags in rear also.
Good work.

Toilet?! That's what the sawzall and the hole in the floor is for! No need to empty the black tank either eh!

Yeah, will definitely have air in the rear. probably the front too. I don't want to vibrate my interior conversion to shit - I've seen a few bus campers fall apart just from on-road travel.

 

[Projectjunkie]

I really liked the bfg bajas on my old tow rig, wear like iron, ride nice, relatively quiet with low rolling resistance, seemed to have a lot of "tech" in them for a mud tire

 

[350TacoZilla]

Yeah if you have the E rated BFG's they are same weight capacity as the E rated MTR's I just kept thinking those would be the D rated bfg's. I have had every hummer tire basically from the old bias 36's to the E rated MTR but only ever had the D rated BFG's, both the MTR and the BFG are a good tire. I actually have a set of the regular goodyear MT's for my project, not as good but were a good deal so I grabbed them. The rubber runflats aren't so much trouble just because of weight but getting them in and out of a tire if you need a repair is a pita unless you have a full shop of tools along side rd lol.

The deal with the shackle is apparently as you hit a bump in rd or whatever the tire wants to push up and back, but with shackle in front it has to travel up and forward so it actually hits bumps harder almost. Its weird to explain but if you ever ride in a jeep or OBS ford before and after the reversal its a noticeable change in ride quality IMO. Can't wait to see more progress pics, cool project for sure.

 

[thatbus]

Got the Eaton and Rockwell mocked up. 5 deg. tilt to the rear, sized up for the 11" jackshaft not pictured. The transfer case should sit nicely around the middle of the bus (156" WB). the front and rear shafts will be angled horizontally about 2.5-3 deg. since the front and rear outputs are both dropped, and both 4" to passenger. I think that's fine? Vertically, neither the front nor rear angles will be too crazy...

One thing that does concern me (wish I got pics) is that the front driveshaft gets very close to the oil plug on the Eaton trans - like, half an inch - when the driveshaft is level. I can't see why it would hit, it's not like the spring could compress and the axle could move up far enough to make the shaft hit, as the axle would be in the engine by then, but, frame twisting moving the transmission relative to the tcase?

Also got the axle out from under the bus, going to start trussing it and gusseting the C's tomorrow. Something like this:

What's the best bang for my buck to strengthen this thing, between new knuckles, 35 outers, and the drive flanges or hubs to fit? The original driverside knuckle did have some weld on it (yeah, the previous owner welded the steering arm to it so I'm leery of it being done properly).

 

[thatbus]

Started trussing the D60. Bottom truss is nearly done, just need to drill U-bolt holes in it...

 

[Penetrode Offroad]

Dude this is cool!

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Awesome!

What region of Ontario are you in (PM if you want, or keep it to yourself).

 

[thatbus]

Dude this is cool!

Thanks man! Slow progress because of some other things in life keeping me busy, but... getting there.

Awesome!

What region of Ontario are you in (PM if you want, or keep it to yourself).

PM'ed ya!

 

[thatbus]

Haven't posted an update in ages - sometimes life gets the best of ya...

Good news though; the bus will be getting International's answer to the 5.9:



The Fuller 6 speed has since been cleaned up and "rebuilt". Not much wrong with it, just one bad bearing, but holy shit, it was driving me crazy trying to figure out why it was so tight and impossible to turn by hand. GO figure, the previous owner did new gaskets but threw out the old shims...

Got lucky finding a brand new clutch for it too, for cheap.

If any of you canucks have some 35 spline stuff to sell, or if anyone wants some 30 spline Dana 60 shit, let me know. Looking to make the upgrade soon. Any opinions on Mile Marker 459SS hubs?

 

[350TacoZilla]

Cool engine choice, I like the "little" DT360 even though most people would focus on the 466 I always thought the 360 was a good engine as long as you overdo the cooling system.

 

[thatbus]

Cool engine choice, I like the "little" DT360 even though most people would focus on the 466 I always thought the 360 was a good engine as long as you overdo the cooling system.

Thank you. Yeah, the 466 is great, just too big and heavy for my needs. It's little brother still shares a lot of the same parts, overall design, overall quality of the 466, but with a more manageable size and weight - perfect for my needs, I think. What'd you suggest for the cooling system? I think I'll have to go with electric fans due to size constraints, but I'm worried about pulling enough CFM.

Work has been slow, though my girlfriend and I took a day to prep for the engine swap. Fenders off, engine ready to come out, just waiting for some time to build the rear motor mounts...

Also fabbed up some mounts for the air assist bags, finished with trussing/gusseting the axle and inner C's, added a third bolt for the passenger side spring plate.

I'm debating on lockable hubs or drive flanges. Any opinions on Mile Marker 459SS lockouts? On a tight budget and the Warn 62672 are too pricey when I take into account shipping + exchange + taxes up north here...

 

[350TacoZilla]

I'm a scrounger that likes using JY parts for parts store availability in case of breakdown, but I have always had good luck with the 90's taurus electric fan. They are 2 speed and move a ton of air. I really think most OEM electric fans beat the aftermarket stuff but again not like I'm buying the highend stuff. Just need to find what will fit for radiator and then go from there with the biggest fan or fans you can fit and then make sure they are ducted to pull air through radiator and not from around it.

On hubs if you aren't doing a ton of highway miles where the slight reduction in MPG's will kill you and you aren't running full locker or spool up front the drive flanges are great for peace of mind.

 

[Grendel]

I go the opposite way: The MM locking hubs are a good fuse and easily replaced, vs a slug which moves the fuse to the u-joint.

 

[350TacoZilla]

I can see that on something with some power and used more aggressively than a bus 😂. I do get that line of thought for sure though.

 

[thatbus]

I'm a scrounger that likes using JY parts for parts store availability in case of breakdown, but I have always had good luck with the 90's taurus electric fan. They are 2 speed and move a ton of air. I really think most OEM electric fans beat the aftermarket stuff but again not like I'm buying the highend stuff. Just need to find what will fit for radiator and then go from there with the biggest fan or fans you can fit and then make sure they are ducted to pull air through radiator and not from around it.

On hubs if you aren't doing a ton of highway miles where the slight reduction in MPG's will kill you and you aren't running full locker or spool up front the drive flanges are great for peace of mind.

Thing is, I'll be doing a lot of backroad miles, not really "highway" speeds though - more like 70-80km/h. Not sure if that changes anything. I will also be doing plenty of offroad; I'll be living in this thing out in the sticks for a few months, then somewhere more urban for a few months. I figure I could add/remove the slugs occasionally. Not sure if that's a bigger pain in the ass than I realize, though.

The front is open, so flanges could work. I still need to swap the front to 3.54 gears though, would love to do a Jana 76 but money is tight and the build has other priorities right now...

As for fans, I've heard about the Taurus ones - going to look into them more. Thanks!

 

[Grendel]

I can see that on something with some power and used more aggressively than a bus 😂. I do get that line of thought for sure though.

4wd, diesel, weight and a big tire, I want a fuse.

 

[shortbus4x4]

That's easy to replace.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Very cool project man! The only thing I question is the shackle in the front of spring, I know you said you had your reasons but man its a pretty big difference in ride if you can work it out to be in rear of spring even if its a pain to setup that way.

No it's not, quit spreading this bad info.

The deal with the shackle is apparently as you hit a bump in rd or whatever the tire wants to push up and back, but with shackle in front it has to travel up and forward so it actually hits bumps harder almost. Its weird to explain but if you ever ride in a jeep or OBS ford before and after the reversal its a noticeable change in ride quality IMO. Can't wait to see more progress pics, cool project for sure.

More bs

The difference in ride in the obs is from better springs or spacing the springs away from the bump stops. I put superduty leafs in mine with a better front shackles. It rides much better than before and as good or better than most leaf spring superduty's I've riden in.

The whole "that axle moves forward, fighting the bump" is just dumb speculation and totally blown out of proportion. In the obs example, it's actually the opposite because the springs are so flat, it's actually moving slightly rear ward as the spring goes negative.

My 4runner SAS had a front shackle with fairly arched springs and only used 3/8" of driveshaft slip travel. It also rode and handled great.

All front link systems move the axle forward under compression. Doesn't seem to be an issue there.

 

[350TacoZilla]

Hasn't been the case in the 4 OBS trucks I have rode in directly before and after install but I'm sure there is some setup out there where it doesn't make a difference. Problem with your thought about moving away from bump stop is the shackle reversal lifts the truck at same time so even if both before and after is stock springs you will be further away from bump after the reversal. The trucks I helped with all had after market springs from 2-6" lift and we didn't change the springs afterwards so any improvement was from the kit. I would liken the difference to running 70psi tire pressure vs running 40 type of deal where it took the harshness out of pothole or like interstate expansion joints, obviously spring rate stays same with the same spring so you dont get a different ride on the normal smooth rd or like hills that you go over. The only way to know for sure would be go pros under truck aimed at suspension, a meter in truck to measure ride and 2 sets of springs with exact same spring rate and lift of something like 2" and one set with 4".

These guys changed springs and tires so it's not exactly conclusive what actually helped the ride but it's inline with what I've felt.

How to Smooth Out the Ride in a 1986-1991 Ford F-350 Pickup

Installing an Off Road Unlimited shackle reversal system and softer 2-inch Tuff Country springs on a 1990 Ford F-350 crew-cab 4x4 pickup to improve the ride.

www.motortrend.com

Your just being an ass @ link suspension unless you are saying you modded a truck to have links coming from front bumper and it rode the same before and after. Sure the links swing in an arc so there is going to be forward and rearward movement at different points in travel but without setting the truck up both ways you have nothing to compare it to and are just saying all link trucks ride fine or all link trucks ride bad.

 

[thatbus]

Alright, I found some Warn 35-spline premium 62672's for a good price on facebook marketplace. New, in the box. Think they'd be good for my application? Otherwise it's buying drive flanges for the same cost.

Concerning ride quality up front: I have air ride seats and am doing air assist with the front leafs. I figure that should be good enough. Rear will be air assist as well.

 

[ChiScouter]

Back in the day a shackle reversal made a tremendous ride difference with Scouts. One thing of note is before shackle reversal anything on the seat would bounce forward every time you hit a bump, after the shackle reversal it would pretty much stay in the same place.

 

[KT2]

Look into the Volvo cooling fan. Same motor without the goofy shroud. Much nicer to work with. Get the relay pack controller off the Volvo also its a nice unit.

 

[Grendel]

The Warn's, Mile Markers and pretty much any locking hub, are all up to snuff.

I like the MM's as they're all stainless.

Also, agree on the Volvo fan, if you can package. Most in the junk yards these days are quality. Stay away from PWM fans, as you don't have a controller for it.

But what's wrong with mechanical with a shroud? It will far out cool anything else. We did a Duramax LB7 into a 68 IH. Kept the OEM mechanical fan and clutch.

 

[thatbus]

The Warn's, Mile Markers and pretty much any locking hub, are all up to snuff.

I like the MM's as they're all stainless.

Also, agree on the Volvo fan, if you can package. Most in the junk yards these days are quality. Stay away from PWM fans, as you don't have a controller for it.

But what's wrong with mechanical with a shroud? It will far out cool anything else. We did a Duramax LB7 into a 68 IH. Kept the OEM mechanical fan and clutch.

Cool - I ended up buying the Warns, so those should get here any day now.

I'd rather the mechanical fan for less complexity, but I'm probably going to have to cut pretty far into the firewall for that because of how far it sticks out. The passenger seat has to go in the center of the bus - stairs are on the right - and I have to keep some legroom there. Can't have a massive doghouse for the engine. If I can somehow make the mechanical work, I'll stick with it though...

Any word on what a suitable radiator size is? I would like to make the brass/copper one that came with the bus work, somehow. It's a nice piece and a bit larger than the DT360's OEM rad.

 

[Grendel]

Cool - I ended up buying the Warns, so those should get here any day now.

I'd rather the mechanical fan for less complexity, but I'm probably going to have to cut pretty far into the firewall for that because of how far it sticks out. The passenger seat has to go in the center of the bus - stairs are on the right - and I have to keep some legroom there. Can't have a massive doghouse for the engine. If I can somehow make the mechanical work, I'll stick with it though...

Any word on what a suitable radiator size is? I would like to make the brass/copper one that came with the bus work, somehow. It's a nice piece and a bit larger than the DT360's OEM rad.

Diesels typically take less cooling than gas engines.

If the bus radiator is bigger, it probably works.

Change the stick out on the fan, looks like you have a 5" spacer on the pulley.