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Why does my 1.6 16v sometimes only want to be pull started?

DirtRoads

Uninformed
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
105
Messages
702
Loc
Memphis 10
It's raining, cold, and dark here, so I'll offer this up for discussion.

Almost 10 years ago, I bought a 1.6 16v from crazybluerider that he treated as if it was his baby. Regular maintenance performed, only driven to church on sunday, shifted before 3500rpm each and every time (:flipoff2:). I had this engine in my Samurai for years with only minimal issues that you would expect. I installed the engine one weekend when I was about 21 and had no idea what I was doing, and pretty much ran it as is up until mid 2020 when it started to get picky on starts. Sometimes it would crank, sometimes it wouldn't.

After plenty of reflection, I finally went through the engine installation and did it "right." I have a Trail Tough wiring harness, new MAF, new intake air sensor, new MAP sensor (never had one before) and just all. kinds. of stuff. When I finished up, she ran great. Cranked immediately, no hesitations at all. 100% confidence.

Until recently. Now, every so often, this thing just will not crank. It is intermittent, it is rare, but when it happens you cannot fight it. In this situation, you can crank on the engine for 2-3 minutes at a time and it will spit and sputter, but simply will not run. The last time I had this problem, it was easy to track to the IAT or coolant temp sensor and the problem was more consistent.

Now here is the crazy thing: if you pull start it, it will crank in 2 seconds without any hesitation as if there is not a problem at all. If I jump it off of my tow rig with a bigass alternator that idles up when it senses a load for full send jump starting, it starts up pretty quickly.

Disclaimer, this thing smokes and misses until it is warm, then it runs great. When it isn't being a dick, it starts right TF up and sounds pretty good. So I'm inclined to think that the internals aren't the problem with it being as intermittent as it is (rebuild is in the works but a ways out). Plugs/cap/rotor/battery are all new.

Place your bets.


TL/DR: Sometimes, my 1.6 16v only wants to be pull started and I don't know why. Thinking a starter with internal parasitic voltage draw that causes a weak spark or something, but have no fawking clue.
 
Well what do the plugs, cap/rotor look like? That’d be my first check. Sling blade style, simplest things first.
 
Cleaned all the grounds?

Maybe time to start doing more testing to make sure it’s not internal. Compression test, leak down test, etc.

Did you do a spark test to make sure it’s getting spark when this happens?

Any fuel issues? New filters? Crappy gas sit too long in the tank?
 
Kind of sounds like you need to rebuild the head. But it also sounds like the fuel injection system and the starter are competing for start up voltage.

I would check cranking voltage and voltage at the EFI fuse while cranking. And then check compression. If you check the voltage at the EFI fuse, and it is below 10.5 I would say while cranking, you might want to check out your charge system and power distribution.
 
If the above doesn't turn up anything, maybe look into the pickup coil/sensor?
 
Cleaned all the grounds?

Maybe time to start doing more testing to make sure it’s not internal. Compression test, leak down test, etc.

Did you do a spark test to make sure it’s getting spark when this happens?

Any fuel issues? New filters? Crappy gas sit too long in the tank?

-All the grounds that I can find/know about are good to go.
-Compression/leak down will not be pretty :laughing:. A little scared to test. But with it being intermittent and such a dealbreaker when it does decide to happen, I'm a little more keen to ignore the compression considering how well the engine acts when it decides to.
-Fuel tank/pump/filters are all almost new.

Kind of sounds like you need to rebuild the head. But it also sounds like the fuel injection system and the starter are competing for start up voltage.

I would check cranking voltage and voltage at the EFI fuse while cranking. And then check compression. If you check the voltage at the EFI fuse, and it is below 10.5 I would say while cranking, you might want to check out your charge system and power distribution.


I like where this is going. Head rebuild is in the works, but I genuinely think that I have two problems.

Is there a known component to consume too much voltage while cranking? My starter will crank this thing over for hours, but can it fail in a way that it will draw too much power from the system in order to do that?

If the above doesn't turn up anything, maybe look into the pickup coil/sensor?

Also a good idea. This is an obd2 engine with the crank sensor.
 
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Update:

I bought a remanned Denso starter from RockAuto as a total guess on this issue. I am fairly sure that my cranking RPM has doubled with this change, and I have not had starting issues since. Fingers crossed that it stays that way.

I was reluctant to throw parts at it, I have never personally seen a starter fail this way. But I'll take the win.
 
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