What's wrong with my shackle angle

[rockyota83]

I don't think this would be good... It has such an arch, and as shortening a leaf increases the rate, he would just W-shape his springs.

Either make it a "zero rate" block or ditch it entirely.

which is why i said taper the ends, leaving it a little longer then lift block length will help reduce axle wrap

 

[lagunaMS]

Haven’t had time to take apart the leaves yet but I got the bed loaded with firewood.

Shackle angle with driver side front wheel up on a stump that was about a foot tall:

Driver side:

Passenger side:

And shackle angle on flat ground with a load in the bed:

 

[YotaAtieToo]

You need to either move the hangars or put stock shackles back on.

 

[lagunaMS]

You need to either move the hangars or put stock shackles back on.

Why? Should the angle be more angley?

 

[Clb]

If that is loaded , do they invert on droop?
Realizing 1\4 cord is at around #500 the bed should be heaped up HIGH.
my first gen bastard pack w\ ?7-8? Will flatten straight eye to eye with a load of oak at the rails...
So what's free length on the springs?
How much shorter are they than stock?
Yea tldr
Looks like you need to load it down more or leave it loaded for a few weeks... Shackle angle @ 0545 is a touch "stiff" hit four thirty -five oh clock

 

[Clb]

Oh and
In the fashion made famous elsewhere....




















SIRCH Newb

pm me for some pics of mine doing stuff if you want

 

[lagunaMS]

If that is loaded , do they invert on droop?
Realizing 1\4 cord is at around #500 the bed should be heaped up HIGH.
my first gun bastard pack w\ ?7-8? Will flatten straight eye to eye with a load of oak at the rails...
So what's free length on the springs?
How much shorter are they than stock?
Yea tldr
Looks like you need to load it down more or leave it loaded for a few weeks...

They didn’t on the small flex I did but I can try and flex it out more and see.

Might not have 1/4 cord in there. 7’ bed with a small toolbox, and loaded it to where it’s just higher than the bed rails. Afraid of really loading it because the bed might fold due to the rust lol

I’ll get measurements of these springs vs stock springs tomorrow

Planing on leaving it loaded for a couple weeks to help break in the springs, it does ride a lot better with a full bed

 

[Clb]

Lift the ass end in the air...
Bounce both wheels up\dn..
Check they aint at +7 pm.
Set back down, see if they invert forward.
The wait n see is

 

[Aisin]

They didn’t on the small flex I did but I can try and flex it out more and see.

Might not have 1/4 cord in there. 7’ bed with a small toolbox, and loaded it to where it’s just higher than the bed rails. Afraid of really loading it because the bed might fold due to the rust lol

I’ll get measurements of these springs vs stock springs tomorrow

Planing on leaving it loaded for a couple weeks to help break in the springs, it does ride a lot better with a full bed

Toss a couple ratchet straps over the frame and under the axle. Crank those fuckers down and let it sit overnight.

 

[Stingray]

Just from the looks of your pictures the springs are too short by an inch or two, cannibalize the spring packs and put the main leaf from the stock pack in, and build the rest around it..


If the stockers are longer.

That will save you from moving the hanger

 

[lagunaMS]

Took a half day off work on Friday to make a 3 hour round trip for some more weight for the bed

Got home and unloaded everything, took the springs apart, took the new overload out and replaced it with the stock overload on the suggestion of YotaAtieToo which is much flatter. Shackle angle unloaded is still near vertical, slightly less than 90 degrees

Re loaded the bed with the wood

The springs sit down a little more with a load since they aren’t fighting an overload, the shackle angle closes up slightly more when loaded

Drove the front tire up on a stump with the opposite rear tire up on a ramp. The droop side the shackle angle went way past vertical to where the shackle itself was inline with the arch of the spring. Is this what is being inverted is?

This leaf spring situation is annoying, the new springs also moved my wheel forward in the wheel well which I don’t like

 

[lagunaMS]

Lift the ass end in the air...
Bounce both wheels up\dn..
Check they aint at +7 pm.
Set back down, see if they invert forward.
The wait n see is

See above on shackle angle after changing out overloads

Toss a couple ratchet straps over the frame and under the axle. Crank those fuckers down and let it sit overnight.

Damn good idea, thanks

Just from the looks of your pictures the springs are too short by an inch or two, cannibalize the spring packs and put the main leaf from the stock pack in, and build the rest around it..


If the stockers are longer.

That will save you from moving the hanger

Unless I suck at measuring it seems like the new springs are longer which confuses me on why the shackle angle is vertical now, and it seems to me like putting the stock shackle back in would make it worse, but I don’t understand leaf springs apparently

 

[lagunaMS]

I don't think this would be good... It has such an arch, and as shortening a leaf increases the rate, he would just W-shape his springs.

Either make it a "zero rate" block or ditch it entirely.

I also agree with getting rid of the overload. I'd get rid of it all together but If you don't want to lower the rear, you could try cutting it to the size of a lift block and leave it bolted to the spring.

Is it safe to take the overload completely out? With the leaves and shackles the back is too high anyway so wouldn’t mind losing an inch, but if it drops it down too much I can do the zero rate thing or put the old lift block back in. I just didn’t know if the overload was necessary or would cause stupid wheel hop without it in there

You need to either move the hangars or put stock shackles back on.

Can you explain how a shorter shackle would make the angle better and not worse? I’m not grasping that part.

 

[Aisin]

Quit being a cheap fuck and buy correct leaf springs. Shit springs are shit springs. You would have been way better off using a modified set of 3rd gen Toyota springs.

 

[Clb]

^^^ most likely this...
But pics of new setup?
If the overload is flat it does nothing but ad the thickness to the lift until the next higher leaf bends down to contact it.
So yes you could pull it completely.....
If the spring eye,shackle,and frame perch are inline when lifted off ground and the shackle moves forward upon setting down that's "inverted"

 

[Yotota]

Is it safe to take the overload completely out? With the leaves and shackles the back is too high anyway so wouldn’t mind losing an inch, but if it drops it down too much I can do the zero rate thing or put the old lift block back in. I just didn’t know if the overload was necessary or would cause stupid wheel hop without it in there

Can you explain how a shorter shackle would make the angle better and not worse? I’m not grasping that part.

No, your truck will catch on fire and your dog will get aids and your wife will kick you in the nuts.

Yes it's safe. Why wouldn't it be? The spring won't have overload capacity so it will bottom out easier but you need the spring softer anyway. Axle wrap could increase but again, softer springs do that.

 

[ToyodaAddict1980]

Is it safe to take the overload completely out? With the leaves and shackles the back is too high anyway so wouldn’t mind losing an inch, but if it drops it down too much I can do the zero rate thing or put the old lift block back in. I just didn’t know if the overload was necessary or would cause stupid wheel hop without it in there

Can you explain how a shorter shackle would make the angle better and not worse? I’m not grasping that part.

Yes it is safe. Those springs are so damn stiff I am sure axle wrap is not going to be an issue. I would bet they will still be stiff, but better and maybe tolerable.
When I had those springs and had problems with the shackle inverting and locking against the frame, I was using stock shackles. The shorter shackle will help with the angle but not enough and may cause them to invert, like I experienced. Just pull the overload, see what happens and go from there.

Edit: I missed that you already remove the overload.

 

[lagunaMS]

Quit being a cheap fuck and buy correct leaf springs. Shit springs are shit springs. You would have been way better off using a modified set of 3rd gen Toyota springs.

Lol you are correct and I know that. if I can’t make these work for the time being I’ll order some better ones. I’m also parts gathering for a SAS on my Chevy so I’m not trying to go all out on this one yet

^^^ most likely this...
But pics of new setup?
If the overload is flat it does nothing but ad the thickness to the lift until the next higher leaf bends down to contact it.
So yes you could pull it completely.....
If the spring eye,shackle,and frame perch are inline when lifted off ground and the shackle moves forward upon setting down that's "inverted"

I will get some pics tomorrow. Springs settle right down onto the stock overload which is flatter and shorter than the pro comp one.

In that case the shackle didn’t invert and go backwards, it was just in line with the spring arch without flipping the other way

No, your truck will catch on fire and your dog will get aids and your wife will kick you in the nuts.

Yes it's safe. Why wouldn't it be? The spring won't have overload capacity so it will bottom out easier but you need the spring softer anyway. Axle wrap could increase but again, softer springs do that.

I wasn’t sure if I would overload them super easy hauling stuff with the overload gone. I’ll get it taken out in the next few days and see what it does

Yes it is safe. Those springs are so damn stiff I am sure axle wrap is not going to be an issue. I would bet they will still be stiff, but better and maybe tolerable.
When I had those springs and had problems with the shackle inverting and locking against the frame, I was using stock shackles. The shorter shackle will help with the angle but not enough and may cause them to invert, like I experienced. Just pull the overload, see what happens and go from there.

Edit: I missed that you already remove the overload.

I removed the pro comp overload and replaced it with the stock overload.

I’ll pull it and and see what happens with just the 3 main springs. The ride is way better with a load of wood so hopefully it’s similar without the overload

 

[Aisin]

Lol you are correct and I know that. if I can’t make these work for the time being I’ll order some better ones. I’m also parts gathering for a SAS on my Chevy so I’m not trying to go all out on this one yet

I will get some pics tomorrow. Springs settle right down onto the stock overload which is flatter and shorter than the pro comp one.

In that case the shackle didn’t invert and go backwards, it was just in line with the spring arch without flipping the other way

I wasn’t sure if I would overload them super easy hauling stuff with the overload gone. I’ll get it taken out in the next few days and see what it does

I removed the pro comp overload and replaced it with the stock overload.

I’ll pull it and and see what happens with just the 3 main springs. The ride is way better with a load of wood so hopefully it’s similar without the overload

Just giving you shit. My neighbor Keoni went thru the same thing with those springs.

 

[lagunaMS]

Just giving you shit. My neighbor Keoni went thru the same thing with those springs.

No prob, What springs should I have bought for lifting 4", not riding like a dump truck, and also not pushing my wheels forward in the wheel well?

 

[rockota]

No prob, What springs should I have bought for lifting 4", not riding like a dump truck, and also not pushing my wheels forward in the wheel well?

well... unless you are willing to weld hangers, you'll probably be stuck with skyjacker or OME. But IIRC, neither make a 4" lift. The Skyjacker 3" lift of the 90's was about the best of the commercial off the shelf brands. Their springs are (were?) nice.

Your procomp are probably the same length spring w/ more arch... hence your horrible shackle angle and tire being moved forward.

 

[lagunaMS]

well... unless you are willing to weld hangers, you'll probably be stuck with skyjacker or OME. But IIRC, neither make a 4" lift. The Skyjacker 3" lift of the 90's was about the best of the commercial off the shelf brands. Their springs are (were?) nice.

Your procomp are probably the same length spring w/ more arch... hence your horrible shackle angle and tire being moved forward.

Thanks. I have the willingness to move hangers, but can't weld and don't have a welder. I suppose it's high time to buy one and learn in the near future

 

[Clb]

Been kicking this around (shackle angle @12/6) as in first post...
What would a boomerang of same length do?

A nuthin
B add stiffness
C decrease stiffness

Reason I ask is search failed

 

[Aisin]

Been kicking this around (shackle angle @12/6) as in first post...
What would a boomerang of same length do?

A nuthin
B add stiffness
C decrease stiffness

Reason I ask is search failed

Absolutely jack shit. Boomerang shackle was made to clear body mounts.

 

[Yotota]

Been kicking this around (shackle angle @12/6) as in first post...
What would a boomerang of same length do?

A nuthin
B add stiffness
C decrease stiffness

Reason I ask is search failed

The shackle would flex more (aka bending), but that's about it.

 

[lagunaMS]

Once I get back home from this work trip I'm intending to take these pro comp leaves out. I parted out a 4runner recently and kept the rear leaves so I'm going to put those in and maybe add a leaf or 2 from my stock leaves if I have to and see what happens. The ride is way too rough for my liking with the lifted leaves in there.

The truck had stock rear leaves with a 2" block when I bought it. It was lower in the rear than the front. Hopefully the 4runner leaves plus the longer shackle will give me a softer ride and have the ass end a little higher than it was when I bought the truck