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Welding unit bearing cups?

YJLOPES

Red Skull Member
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
352
Messages
253
Is there any tricks? Am I overthinking it.

I thought the best way would be to TIG the inside of the cup to the end of the tube, then a root pass with the TIG on the outside, then a cover pass with the MIG. So today I took the housing with the fitted and aligned cups out to my shop where the TIG is and got to it. I welded the inside of the cup to the end of the tube and was debating whether it would be necessary to weld the outside, or the inside weld would seal up that join adequately.

IMG_5804.jpeg
IMG_5806.jpeg


I decided I'd spray some soapy water on the weld and blow on the opposite side with compressed air. Here is the result.




Full disclosure, I did wire brush the seam and wiped it down with acetone prior to welding, but I didn't clean the inside of the bore of the cup, or the tube prior to assembling them together. My buddy seems to think that it was just a bunch of impurities in the weld, which I can believe.

I'm trying to decide how to proceed. I think I'll probably just wire wheel the outside really well, maybe wipe it down with acetone so it's as clean as I can get it, and go to town with the MIG cranked up good and hot. I don't think I see any value in using the TIG on the outside. That seems to be what I see on a lot of the build videos on YouTube, but I never hear any follow up how well they seal.

Am I on the right track?
 
Did you preheat everything? What rod? That weld looks hot and shitty.
 
If you weld somthing with that much mass cold, you can develop little micro fractures in the weld. When I zoom in it kinda looks like you have a few. I would grind it down a little with a die grinder. Then pre-heat and do a cover pass with 308L. That will seal it up.

The odds of you getting an air tight mig weld on the OD are pretty slim if your not used to doing them. Any time you stop you will need to grins it back some and start on top of the previous weld. Overrun when you stop. Otherwise it will leak at the start/stops.
 
bdkw1 said:
If you weld somthing with that much mass cold, you can develop little micro fractures in the weld.
Click to expand...
This seems so damn obvious now that I think about it...

I think I have a box of 308 around. I'll give that a try.

99% of the TIG work I've done has been welding bungs in transmission pans or radiators, occasionally some ornamental repair, nothing this big.

It makes sense a bit of preheat could got long way. Thanks,
 
bdkw1 said:
The odds of you getting an air tight mig weld on the OD are pretty slim if your not used to doing them. Any time you stop you will need to grins it back some and start on top of the previous weld. Overrun when you stop. Otherwise it will leak at the start/stops.
Click to expand...

Any value in a 308 root pass on the outside?
 
IDK how's your MIG game, but I would just MIG the outside and call it.
THAT SAID : If your MIG game is like your TIG game, it would be worth it to drag that to a pro and let him do it.

No offence but those welds don't inspire confidence and a pro would blast that with a MIG in 2mn for a 12 pack or a $20 bill.
 
Bebop said:
IDK how's your MIG game, but I would just MIG the outside and call it.
THAT SAID : If your MIG game is like your TIG game, it would be worth it to drag that to a pro and let him do it.

No offence but those welds don't inspire confidence and a pro would blast that with a MIG in 2mn for a 12 pack or a $20 bill.
Click to expand...

Yes agree on the outside weld

seen worse on stuff that "pros" are running.
 
Weasel said:
Yes agree on the outside weld

seen worse on stuff that "pros" are running.
Click to expand...
Yes.
I've also seen "pros" stuff take a shit and exit the building too.

Just do it right, for this it's worth it.
 
The 308 will flow better. This also makes a better looking weld. Pre-heat means you d9nt have to go full tilt boogy to get a puddle going. This keeps you from cooking the shit out of it. TIG the whole thing, you need the practice:flipoff2:
 
That looks like it was done with 6010 stick. Since it wasn't , it means you cooked the metal.

Burr bit that shit out and reweld it.
 
Bebop said:
IDK how's your MIG game, but I would just MIG the outside and call it.
THAT SAID : If your MIG game is like your TIG game, it would be worth it to drag that to a pro and let him do it.

No offence but those welds don't inspire confidence and a pro would blast that with a MIG in 2mn for a 12 pack or a $20 bill.
Click to expand...
I think my MIG game is a bit better than this. That's among the reasons I wanted to do this with TIG, more hood time. No offense taken, I work in an industry that doesn't give a shit about your feelings, either you can, or you figure out how, or you quit.

mobil1syn said:
are pedal pulsing your tig welds?
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I was using the pulse feature on the machine, but it wouldn't get hot enough to get a puddle, so I turned it off. I was using the machine on 110V (machine maxed out at 149A, which is probably part of the problem. I wired in the 220v today (199A0, so I can grind this out and give it another go.

bdkw1 said:
The 308 will flow better. This also makes a better looking weld. Pre-heat means you d9nt have to go full tilt boogy to get a puddle going. This keeps you from cooking the shit out of it. TIG the whole thing, you need the practice:flipoff2:
Click to expand...
I have some 308 coming tomorrow. I have some stainless rod of unknown origin, decided against the lack of pedigree and ordered some...and you're right, I need the practice. Like I said, that's among the reasons I decided to go this route.

gt1guy said:
That looks like it was done with 6010 stick. Since it wasn't , it means you cooked the metal.

Burr bit that shit out and reweld it.
Click to expand...
That's the plan.

Thanks for the input guys.
 
YJLOPES said:
I was using the pulse feature on the machine, but it wouldn't get hot enough to get a puddle, so I turned it off. I was using the machine on 110V (machine maxed out at 149A, which is probably part of the problem. I wired in the 220v today (199A0, so I can grind this out and give it another go.
Click to expand...

cut the welds, pull the cup, clean everything up, and start over.

dont ever use that feature again. small manipulation with your pedal maybe but pulsing is for unskilled lazy people.

for that much material, preheat like @partybarge said, drop the foot to the floor and go slow feeding filler.
 
mobil1syn said:
dont ever use that feature again. small manipulation with your pedal maybe but pulsing is for unskilled lazy people.
Click to expand...

Ouch...

Not trying to start a debate here, but some of the best motorsport TIG welders pulse the pedal.
 
It's a unit bearing cup not a custom sheetmetal intake manifold. MIG or 7018 that bitch inside and out and get the rest of the axle built in the time it would take to do anything close to "starting over"

TIG is not the right tool for the job of applying the amount of filler metal you need to apply when you're trying to single pass a big joint like that.

I get that it was an excuse to practice but there's a lesson here about trying to be fancy when you don't need to.
 
Is there not a seal in the axle tube? I did not think they sealed beyond the cups. Are the rears different that the fronts?
 
Bebop said:
Ouch...

Not trying to start a debate here, but some of the best motorsport TIG welders pulse the pedal.
Click to expand...

and i bet a lot of them 'wash' the cover pass for the 'gram too. there is also a difference between manipulating the puddle working the pedal in the 50-75% range, instead of 15-100% to stack them dimes.
 
I bought some 308L and ground out the cups to try again. I wasn't happy with the results, although it did seem to have WAY fewer leaks, it looked like shit. I ground that out and ran the MIG in a circle and it sealed up nice.

IMG_5847.jpeg


I was happy with that, so I ran the flap wheel around the outside and knocked down most of the tacks and then wiped it down with acetone to run a bead. It didn't sound great, but the puddle looked okay. I lifted my hood and found this.
IMG_5846.jpeg

I turned up the wire speed a bit and tried a bit more but I'm still not happy.

IMG_5845.jpeg


What is causing these pinholes? I cleaned the material pretty well, but there I can't get in between the cup and tube. Is it contamination, or ???

This is a new to me welder, so I'm still learning the machine a bit.
 
arse_sidewards said:
It's a unit bearing cup not a custom sheetmetal intake manifold. MIG or 7018 that bitch inside and out and get the rest of the axle built in the time it would take to do anything close to "starting over"

TIG is not the right tool for the job of applying the amount of filler metal you need to apply when you're trying to single pass a big joint like that.

I get that it was an excuse to practice but there's a lesson here about trying to be fancy when you don't need to.
Click to expand...
MIG does not stick them in as well. Even with preheat. I've seen several MIGed in spindle snouts rip out at the weld. I've never seen a TIGed one pull out. Similar to rossets, never MIG those. Put that thing up on stands so you can spin it, lay the propane torch so it's aimed down the tube and let it rip. Even with multiple passes, it goes quick.
 
YJLOPES said:
I bought some 308L and ground out the cups to try again. I wasn't happy with the results, although it did seem to have WAY fewer leaks, it looked like shit. I ground that out and ran the MIG in a circle and it sealed up nice.

IMG_5847.jpeg


I was happy with that, so I ran the flap wheel around the outside and knocked down most of the tacks and then wiped it down with acetone to run a bead. It didn't sound great, but the puddle looked okay. I lifted my hood and found this.
IMG_5846.jpeg

I turned up the wire speed a bit and tried a bit more but I'm still not happy.

IMG_5845.jpeg


What is causing these pinholes? I cleaned the material pretty well, but there I can't get in between the cup and tube. Is it contamination, or ???

This is a new to me welder, so I'm still learning the machine a bit.
Click to expand...
I think your wire speed is still too low. I see undercuts in addition to the porosity.
 
bdkw1 said:
MIG does not stick them in as well. Even with preheat. I've seen several MIGed in spindle snouts rip out at the weld. I've never seen a TIGed one pull out. Similar to rossets, never MIG those. Put that thing up on stands so you can spin it, lay the propane torch so it's aimed down the tube and let it rip. Even with multiple passes, it goes quick.
Click to expand...
I'm inclined to chalk that up to people who don't really know what they're doing being comfortable with MIG whereas most people using a TIG know what they're doing.

I stick weld basically everything that isn't exhaust tubing so I don't really give a fuck. :laughing:
 
arse_sidewards said:
It's a unit bearing cup not a custom sheetmetal intake manifold. MIG or 7018 that bitch inside and out and get the rest of the axle built in the time it would take to do anything close to "starting over"
Click to expand...

Agree, Stop the TIG and MIG.

DC stick weld 7018. Stick welding is still used everyday on critical structural weldments that are tested.

Preheat and lay a good stick weld on. Stack multiple passes if needed
 
pull it apart and start over. there junk deep inside and it will continue to come to the surface.
 
I had a similar pinholing experience when welding cups and my MIG gun was pulling itself apart and leaking gas internally. You could only tell when welding a round piece and it wasn’t exhibiting low gas symptoms on plate.

As far as MIG welding cups not being enough, it has been my experience that a good, preheated and controlled cool down single pass MIG inside and out is enough.

Pics attached.
 

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Are you pushing or dragging the gun?
Having too much angle on the gun can fuck up gas coverage, especially when following a circle.
 
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