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Water Plasma Table - Arclight or Torchmate?

ihpartsjeff

IH Expert Guy
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
172
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Loc
Grass Valley, CA
Help me decide. Looking at a 5x10 water table with 125 amp plasma that are fairly equally equipped. The Arclight Arc Max table is coming in at $42K and the table can handle up to 2" thick material. The Torchmate X table is coming in at $63K and can handle 4" material. I do not foresee cutting anything thicker than 1". Any reason to spend an extra $20k on the Torchmate? Hoping to hear from those who have used either of these brands.
 
Sounds like you answered your own question with the 1" thickness comment. Why spend more money on something you will never need?
 
My brother just bought a 5x10 water table machine from shop Sabre. It’s pretty much spot on with how I would build my next machine. It was in that 30-40k range with the plasma cutter.

I don’t have any experience with either of the two brands you mentioned above.

Let us know what you get!


F97D5FF8-F11D-4420-A543-E4EE9F59FA20.jpeg
 
My buddy bought a arclight 3 years ago.

Some of the features have been problematic but the plasma and table functions have been flawless.
 
I don't like how the Torchmate runs bearings on cold-rolled steel for motion control. Not that it doesn't work, but it's sitting right on top of the rails where you'll be loading stuff most likely, so you're going to damage them. (or you'll have to be careful not to, which is a pain) Also, dirt/grime/plasma schmoo will collect there and mess things up, so you have to keep them clean. And likely oiled so they don't rust--which then attracts more schmoo.

So, out of those two options I'd choose the Arclight for sure. Especially with the difference in initial cost.
 
I have a TM that I run pretty much daily

I purchased it before Lincoln purchased Torchmate, at the time I basically made the final decision specifically for the tech support. There used to be a good forum at the other site, but that has disappeared. When I was just getting into it these things were priceless
I really haven't checked on the lifetime free tech in years, don't know if they still have it.
I know that prices went retarded after the merger.
Consumables used to be had at a deal with a online store specifically for the TM users, now not as much or at all, last time I looked it didn't fall under the definition of 'deal' to me anymore
I try to be a team player, but almost everything they have for parts can be reversed engineered after a phone call and the feeling of fully gouged as a result.
Some parts can be as much as 1k difference, I know they have to make a little money, but not all off one customer

But at 63k (?!)

You are aware that you can build these with a little homework for the value of 15-20% of that number?

I cant say anything about the other brand mentioned I have no personal experience.

edit:
I know they have a 'new' forum, but I don't even think I took the time to sign up, looks pretty lame from the outside, but when you are new, help with CAD and gcode this was a big deal
 
I am building my second table.
If I was to buy one I would look hard at star labs with the Linux software package.
 
Lester has one, I’m sure he wouldn’t mind showing you. Don’t remember what kind though.
 
I don't like how the Torchmate runs bearings on cold-rolled steel for motion control. Not that it doesn't work, but it's sitting right on top of the rails where you'll be loading stuff most likely, so you're going to damage them. (or you'll have to be careful not to, which is a pain) Also, dirt/grime/plasma schmoo will collect there and mess things up, so you have to keep them clean. And likely oiled so they don't rust--which then attracts more schmoo.

So, out of those two options I'd choose the Arclight for sure. Especially with the difference in initial cost.
I had my first bearing hit a piece of slag and explode during a rapid

So glad I went with linear rails for my next table
C02009BC-A7CE-477D-BCEB-4F11AB9CECF8.jpeg
 
I had my first bearing hit a piece of slag and explode during a rapid

So glad I went with linear rails for my next table
C02009BC-A7CE-477D-BCEB-4F11AB9CECF8.jpeg
Oof.

But yeah, proves my point. :) I've literally never had that happen--still using the same bearings I started with, 11 years ago. Just on V-rails, nothing fancy....but not a flat surface to collect crap.
 
Oof.

But yeah, proves my point. :) I've literally never had that happen--still using the same bearings I started with, 11 years ago. Just on V-rails, nothing fancy....but not a flat surface to collect crap.
At the same time.... I had a buddy have the same thing happen with this linear rails.

they all can fail.
 
I've had the same issues with the torchmate rails. Just wipe them off every so often if your blowing slag everywhere. The new ones come with a cover over the gantry rail which is the only difficult one to clean.

Curious, why the tm x series over the standard? I think it's near 2x as expensive.
 
My brother just bought a 5x10 water table machine from shop Sabre. It’s pretty much spot on with how I would build my next machine. It was in that 30-40k range with the plasma cutter.

I don’t have any experience with either of the two brands you mentioned above.

Let us know what you get!
Is your brother still liking the shop sabre? I finally have dad convinced he needs something to supplement the massive old optical trace oxy rig he has in the fab shop side of the business, but I've only built from scratch or retrofitted electronics. It wouldn't be a production unit running 10 hours a day (well maybe once they step out of the stone age and realize how useful it is), but I want something fairly simple that can be run by anyone after some training. I already have to babysit my 70yo uncle and his 4x4 burntables pos that I retro'd with candcnc brains and really don't want to go down that road again.
 
Is your brother still liking the shop sabre? I finally have dad convinced he needs something to supplement the massive old optical trace oxy rig he has in the fab shop side of the business, but I've only built from scratch or retrofitted electronics. It wouldn't be a production unit running 10 hours a day (well maybe once they step out of the stone age and realize how useful it is), but I want something fairly simple that can be run by anyone after some training. I already have to babysit my 70yo uncle and his 4x4 burntables pos that I retro'd with candcnc brains and really don't want to go down that road again.
It’s a nice machine. Not a fan of the water table, and the control is different than my Mach setup, thc seems kinda slow. Other than that the thing is super smooth and quick. It makes good parts. For the money it’s a decent deal.

I just need to get sheetcam to work with it . The program they send with it to do the post processing is meh. Then again I have been using sheet cam for over a decade and that’s what I’m used too.
 
I just need to get sheetcam to work with it . The program they send with it to do the post processing is meh. Then again I have been using sheet cam for over a decade and that’s what I’m used too.
That was my next question, I've been using sheetcam/mach for close to 10 years too. Stuck in my ways I guess. The only other table I've used was a pre-lincoln torchmate, and I wasn't a big fan of the interface, but I've been using autocad for at least 20 years so the archaic cad part just pissed me off.
 
That was my next question, I've been using sheetcam/mach for close to 10 years too. Stuck in my ways I guess. The only other table I've used was a pre-lincoln torchmate, and I wasn't a big fan of the interface, but I've been using autocad for at least 20 years so the archaic cad part just pissed me off.
The thing that will get you mad is the pendent is not as good as the Mach stuff. The Mach control makes the pendent smooth and accurate. The shop Sabre it’s basically stepping each click. It’s slow and hard to be accurate.

The shop Sabre Excels at the run from here. The Mach shit if you have a 20,000 line program and it fucks up at line 15,000, mach has to dry run it before you can start again. The shop Sabre starts right from the fuckup.

If you use Mach to step a set amount like 6” and stab a arrow key to make the move for the next part, your gonna have to leave to write the code to do that. The step amount is not adjustable. Only .001 .01 .1 stupid.

Mach spoiled me because of the people who wrote it actually used the stuff so they made shit that was practical and useful.
 
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The shop Sabre Excels at the run from here. The Mach shit if you have a 20,000 line program and it fucks up at line 15,000, mach has to dry run it before you can start again. The shop Sabre starts right from the fuckup.
Have you messed around with that at all in mach? As long as I go back to the very start of the last complete operation in the code (coordinate move, touchoff, pierce) 95% of the time I can start over there instead of the dry run. It took me awhile to figure it out, but as long as I didn't lose step it normally works just fine. My gantry is all aluminum direct drive with a mag breakaway so losing step is pretty rare unless it's from interference from something like forgetting to uncoil the ground lead from the table :homer:
 
Have you messed around with that at all in mach? As long as I go back to the very start of the last complete operation in the code (coordinate move, touchoff, pierce) 95% of the time I can start over there instead of the dry run. It took me awhile to figure it out, but as long as I didn't lose step it normally works just fine. My gantry is all aluminum direct drive with a mag breakaway so losing step is pretty rare unless it's from interference from something like forgetting to uncoil the ground lead from the table :homer:
Yeah I do that but Mach still needs to run the code to get the move to here before the cut starts. On short programs nbd. On the big ones it takes forever. Almost faster to open the code with the notepad and delete a few 1000 lines then restart.
 
Yeah I do that but Mach still needs to run the code to get the move to here before the cut starts. On short programs nbd. On the big ones it takes forever. Almost faster to open the code with the notepad and delete a few 1000 lines then restart.
You should be able to pick the start point, no need to run the code from the beginning. As long as it's a coordinate I can select that line and it'll move there and start. I think click the code to highlight the whole thing, pick the line and hit "set next line", run twice and its back on its way.
 
arclight.

to be honest i haven't really kept up withthe cnc plas stuf for the last couple years. however, arclight has always been great.

and again to be honest, i've used ariclights tables but never bought one. i just built a few and have always copied what arclight does. same electronics and such, i build my own rails and gantry using others parts. my table has been outstanding, and the customers i've built tables for... i've never had a, non paying, call back.

what i'm runnign now is old so i'll be building another likely by the end of this year.


the first table i made i actually bought the gantry kit from speedmonkey on the other site and candcnc stuff. at the time it was basically, functionally, an exact copy of what arclight offered at the time.
 
I have owned a Torchmate since before the merger with Lincoln. I was in Reno when Torchmate was setting up their new facility and got a tour because we had forum members who were employees there at the time too.

Then Lincoln started doing their big business model stuff and basically stopped supporting older features, stop supporting older parts, and basically shouldered off a lot of the original customers.

I agree with a few sentiments above, I'll build a table from scratch or turnkey a large JD2 machine before every spending a $ with Lincoln again.

Have you looked into the JD2 stuff? I like their cantilver gantry option so you can cut outside of the water table to work on structural tubing / add a rotary head without disturbing whatever sheet material you have loaded.
 
I have a cantilevered section on my plasma. 12 years in and I have never used it. Never had a need to. I want to cut if off to recoup some room in the shop.
 
I have a cantilevered section on my plasma. 12 years in and I have never used it. Never had a need to. I want to cut if off to recoup some room in the shop.
Interesting... is it because its just a pain to load and unload or just that you've never really had a project to validate it? I daydream about the projects that I have where a cantilever CNC would save me a bunch of time.
 
Interesting... is it because its just a pain to load and unload or just that you've never really had a project to validate it? I daydream about the projects that I have where a cantilever CNC would save me a bunch of time.
Just never had a use for it. I make tons of shit and never needed it. My table has over 6” of clearance under the gantry so all the box tube c channel grouser pads ect fit on the table.
 
Saw this post I started active again and thought I would update. At the end of last year I finally pulled the trigger on a Arc Light Arc Max in the 5x10 flavor with a Hypertherm 105. Since the factory is only 450 miles from me I plan on picking it up to save on freight, save on sales tax, and get a lesson for myself and staff. Should be making the trip first week of March. Will update again once we get it here and settled in.
 
I need another table, I've been running a tm from around the Lincoln purchase times. I know the programs and system well. I wish it still had a table only option. I love my powermax 85, and don't need a touch screen computer control.

I have friends who bought other tables back then and they were a nightmare of do this, load that plug in this dongle work the pendant, something fucked up do it again. It just wasn't productive or user friendly.

So now it's spend 32k on a tm with stuff I don't want or learn another table. I should be able to draw and cut a base plate in 1-2 minutes. This is my business so I have no time to figure out and fix issues, or have a slower process. Are the new tables and cad/cam better now?
 
I need another table, I've been running a tm from around the Lincoln purchase times. I know the programs and system well. I wish it still had a table only option. I love my powermax 85, and don't need a touch screen computer control.
I've seen a few of OG TM users ditch most of the hardware and then build a new, larger table from scratch, so long as it matched the output limits of their original machine. I would do that with mine but I don't even have an AVHC controller so my little blinky box isn't quite up to snuff. Depending on what controller you have, would it be cost effective to have an upgraded hardware setup? My old TM G-code controller software would allow me to set all kinds of motor signal controls as its somewhat of a basic and universal software.
 
I've seen a few of OG TM users ditch most of the hardware and then build a new, larger table from scratch, so long as it matched the output limits of their original machine. I would do that with mine but I don't even have an AVHC controller so my little blinky box isn't quite up to snuff. Depending on what controller you have, would it be cost effective to have an upgraded hardware setup? My old TM G-code controller software would allow me to set all kinds of motor signal controls as its somewhat of a basic and universal software.
I've got both the blinky box and the newer accumove 2. The blue box avhc died and i couldn't get a new one so the table got the accumove upgrade. Its a better system and height control works pretty good.

I've thought about using the blinky box to make a cnc back guage for one of the press brakes. But it's another project I will never get to.
 
I need another table, I've been running a tm from around the Lincoln purchase times. I know the programs and system well. I wish it still had a table only option. I love my powermax 85, and don't need a touch screen computer control.

I have friends who bought other tables back then and they were a nightmare of do this, load that plug in this dongle work the pendant, something fucked up do it again. It just wasn't productive or user friendly.

So now it's spend 32k on a tm with stuff I don't want or learn another table. I should be able to draw and cut a base plate in 1-2 minutes. This is my business so I have no time to figure out and fix issues, or have a slower process. Are the new tables and cad/cam better now?
I just use a 3D cad program and sheetcam. I can blast out most drawings and programs in a few minutes .
 
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