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Wagoneer Dana 44 questions.

Blt2rok

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I just got a Toyota single cab truck. Back halved and linked,toy axles rear and a wagoneer 44 front. I've always had toy front axles and rcv's are the go-to for those. Whats the best axle shafts for the 44?
Has anyone used the jantz janak kit for the front?
I'm looking to put 4:11 gears in it and will be running 37 reds.
 
total newb said:
Still rcv for the front but theyre more than a d60 so....... go for it?
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Yeah but if I put a 60 up there then it's a 14 bolt in the back,then I need gears,lockers and wheels, also gonna have to get all the link and shock mounts,if I'm on tons then I might as well go with 39 or 40" tires. Then the snowball is really rolling down the hill. Lol.
 
TRINDU said:
A lot of companies offer lifetime warranty on shafts if you buy their lifetime joints.

As mentioned, conventional D44 RCVs have a smaller bell than a toy.
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So what would you run?
 
From what I remember from the old axle breaking machine numbers, they were about as strong as a non-chromo 35spline 60 stub, but that could be BS. I've had them in my waggy 44 for like 7-8 years. Running 35-37" non stickies on a ~5k lb rig. I just hit them with grease when I remember and then don't think about them much otherwise. I run their 30 spline hub gear in a set of warn premiums, expecting that the hub would probably let go first, or maybe a 1310 in the front shaft.
 
I ran ten factory shafts in my front 44 Spicer X joints. Never broke either on 35s. 5k+ lb scout II. That was with the Scout Dana 30 outers and never broke stubs EITHER. (V8 torque too)
 
How much do you want to spend?

In my opinion, all the U-joint style chromoly D44 shafts are about the same, and many of them are likely made in the same factory. I would choose based on customer service and availability. This will cost about $1000 ($600 for shafts and $400 for u-joints).

RCVs are going to be stronger, but cost about $1700-$1900 ($1600 shafts + $100 hub gear or $300 drive slugs). The RCVs are 30 spline outer, so you need to upgrade hug gears or drive slugs.

I ran Nitro Gear shafts and u-joints in my old rig, S10 with TBI 350 and 37s (not sticky). I ran OEM waggy drive slugs after getting sick of breaking hubs. I found greasing the u-joints was a pain in the ass, and one reason I'd choose RCVs, there's 25% as many zerks to hit.
 
There are a lot of options I'd go for before putting $2k rcv's into a waggy D44. Back to a Toyota axle, 609, shaved D60, ect.

One guy I knew ordered Rcv's for his waggy D44 and they wouldn't even go in. Rcv ended up refunding him, another guy kept having issues with the inner shafts falling out of the birf. Then I think it was 2big bronco who told me he broke one the first time he hit the trail, with 37s.

It's not going to hold up to 37 stickies unless you really are easy on it, period.

I was told they use the same bell size on rzr's and those guys go through cv's like underwear.

For some reason guys love waggy D44s, so you could probably get a decent amount from it.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
There are a lot of options I'd go for before putting $2k rcv's into a waggy D44. Back to a Toyota axle, 609, shaved D60, ect.
...
For some reason guys love waggy D44s, so you could probably get a decent amount from it.
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Agreed, except for the Toy axle, but that's a personal preference.

I also wouldn't mess with the Jana kit. It's cool in concept, but you're back in Dana 60 territory.

There's no reason you can't run a Dana 60 front with a Toy rear, it was super common 20 years ago.

David Freidburger:
Don't Get It Right, Just Get It Running
Click to expand...

This is why the $1000 cromos make sense in my mind, it's a saturday evening and you're back on the trail with something that's about as strong as the rest of the axle. While a Dana 60 is probably more logical for anyone starting fresh, it's a lot more work than just popping new shafts in the axle that's already under the truck.
 
Jeffh555 said:
Agreed, except for the Toy axle, but that's a personal preference.
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He mentioned not wanting to mess with the rear. Toyota front pairs up well with a..... Toyota rear. :flipoff2: I'd skip a stock housing though.

Jeffh555 said:
I also wouldn't mess with the Jana kit. It's cool in concept, but you're back in Dana 60 territory.

There's no reason you can't run a Dana 60 front with a Toy rear, it was super common 20 years ago.
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Super common? I've seen 1, maybe 2 rigs that way and it's retarded imo. Why spend the extra money to convert wheel patterns to match up an inferior axle? Then you have nearly a foot a width difference.

Also, if going 1 tons with a little 4 cyl, I think a big benefit is to run deep axle gears. Going 1 tons and 4.10s is a recipe for broken tcase parts.

Jeffh555 said:
This is why the $1000 cromos make sense in my mind, it's a saturday evening and you're back on the trail with something that's about as strong as the rest of the axle. While a Dana 60 is probably more logical for anyone starting fresh, it's a lot more work than just popping new shafts in the axle that's already under the truck.
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Untill they break, take out the ball joint and the tire falls off. :laughing:

If he was just looking to do some trail cruising with the family It might be fine. But talking stickies and front digs. Old school D44 is a big waste of money.

For $2k you could get pretty far into a budget 609. Pick up a 99-04 D50 or D50, or even a 94-02 dodge D60 for a few hundred. Bare housing $800, bare 3rd for about $400. Then gears and lockers are about the same price no matter what axle, usually cheaper for a 9". Run some stock axle shafts for now. But have room to up grade and almost unlimited ratio options.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
He mentioned not wanting to mess with the rear. Toyota front pairs up well with a..... Toyota rear. :flipoff2: I'd skip a stock housing though.



Super common? I've seen 1, maybe 2 rigs that way and it's retarded imo. Why spend the extra money to convert wheel patterns to match up an inferior axle? Then you have nearly a foot a width difference.

Also, if going 1 tons with a little 4 cyl, I think a big benefit is to run deep axle gears. Going 1 tons and 4.10s is a recipe for broken tcase parts.



Untill they break, take out the ball joint and the tire falls off. :laughing:

If he was just looking to do some trail cruising with the family It might be fine. But talking stickies and front digs. Old school D44 is a big waste of money.

For $2k you could get pretty far into a budget 609. Pick up a 99-04 D50 or D50, or even a 94-02 dodge D60 for a few hundred. Bare housing $800, bare 3rd for about $400. Then gears and lockers are about the same price no matter what axle, usually cheaper for a 9". Run some stock axle shafts for now. But have room to up grade and almost unlimited ratio options.
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How do you run stock shafts in a 31 spline 9”?

I could maybe see 28 spline if you used GM 10 Bolt inners but then you are right back at D44 outer weakness?

I am planning to run D44 F&R with 35s an LS and SM465. I have Nitro Shafts up front at about 56” WMS going into a Willys M38. But I’ll only Weigh in at 3500# tops
 
[memphis] said:
How do you run stock shafts in a 31 spline 9”?
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35 spline locker?

Where did I mention stock 9" parts?

[memphis] said:
I could maybe see 28 spline if you used GM 10 Bolt inners but then you are right back at D44 outer weakness?

I am planning to run D44 F&R with 35s an LS and SM465. I have Nitro Shafts up front at about 56” WMS going into a Willys M38. But I’ll only Weigh in at 3500# tops
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Thats a perfect application. Light wieght rigs play by totally different rules.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
35 spline locker?

Where did I mention stock 9" parts?



Thats a perfect application. Light wieght rigs play by totally different rules.
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I wasn’t really paying attention to the 35 spline part I just re read the last line

Run some stock axle shafts for now. But have room to up grade and almost unlimited ratio options.
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[memphis] said:
I wasn’t really paying attention to the 35 spline part I just re read the last line
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I said a $400 3rd, so maybe you thought I meant stock. I did not. You can get a brand new 3rd for that range.

Even top of the line is only $450 (Minus pinion support)

gearworksinc.com

3.250" Iron Load Bolt Case - Gearworks Inc.

This case uses 7/16" pinion support bolts and a taller pocket bearing with more load capacity than a standard 9" bearing that is held in by a retainer plate and 3 flat head screws. Fits 9", 9.5" & 10" gears. A large Load Bolt keeps ring gear deflection at bay. The forged chromoly caps are...
gearworksinc.com gearworksinc.com
 
I have a Ford Dana 44, but you can buy Yukon 4340 shafts with a lifetime warranty and Spicer 760X joints for under $400 all day long. Is it bullet proof? No, but I have seen Dana 44s with 4340 shafts and decent U-joints take a lot of abuse. Hell, people used to compete with Dana 44s back in the day. I am not sure if the 760X joints or 19 spline 4340 outers are the weak point. Nitro sells 30 spline 4340 9.72" outers for a reasonable-ish price of you want to run slugs and a bushing-style U-joint.

If you want to drive like a retard, a Dana 60 is the best strength for the buck, but personally I feel like it is too much axle for 37" tires and a non-fullsize rig. I would put a cheap set of 4340 axles with a lifetime warranty and slugs in and rock out. They make balljoint eliminators for the Dana 44 if you are worried about the knuckle falling off.

As far as weak points go, I would say it is cheap hubs > parts store U-joints/obsolete Spicer 297x > stock 19 spline outers > good hubs/stock 30 spline inners > spicer 760X/4340 19 spline 4340 outers. I think all 30 spline 4340/300m shafts and CTM/Superjoints, etc. are slightly stronger than RCV, but require more maintenance and aren't as street friendly.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
I have a Ford Dana 44, but you can buy Yukon 4340 shafts with a lifetime warranty and Spicer 760X joints for under $400 all day long. Is it bullet proof? No, but I have seen Dana 44s with 4340 shafts and decent U-joints take a lot of abuse. Hell, people used to compete with Dana 44s back in the day. I am not sure if the 760X joints or 19 spline 4340 outers are the weak point. Nitro sells 30 spline 4340 9.72" outers for a reasonable-ish price of you want to run slugs and a bushing-style U-joint.

If you want to drive like a retard, a Dana 60 is the best strength for the buck, but personally I feel like it is too much axle for 37" tires and a non-fullsize rig. I would put a cheap set of 4340 axles with a lifetime warranty and slugs in and rock out. They make balljoint eliminators for the Dana 44 if you are worried about the knuckle falling off.

As far as weak points go, I would say it is cheap hubs > parts store U-joints/obsolete Spicer 297x > stock 19 spline outers > good hubs/stock 30 spline inners > spicer 760X/4340 19 spline 4340 outers. I think all 30 spline 4340/300m shafts and CTM/Superjoints, etc. are slightly stronger than RCV, but require more maintenance and aren't as street friendly.
Click to expand...

These are what you want if you want to eliminate the weak 19 sp stub, but not go full slugs


 
Dude, just fucking cruise craigslist and buy whatever matched pair of wontons you see. You'll come out time and money ahead vs the turd polishing you're trying to do.
 
arse_sidewards have you ever had a wheeler with 37" tires? :flipoff2:

37" tires are kind of a funny transition size in my opinion where one ton stuff is too big and heavy to be worth it, but you're pushing 1/2ton stuff hard enough that you are going to need to dump some money in them to make them hold up to hardcore use. If you don't drive like a retard, you can do a whole lot of hardcore wheeling on parts the internet says will never work; Shit, I've seen people arguing that people need Dana 60s to run 35" DOT tires :laughing:

If you don't think you are ever going to want to go bigger than a 37/38" tire, I think it is worth building a Dana 44 under a relatively light rig; however, if you think you are ever going to want to step up to 39"+ tires you'll definitely be time and money ahead going straight to one tons off the bat.

Since you are talking about stickys I assume street time will be little to none, run slugs and either RCVs ($$$), or a set of unbranded Yukon from ECGS: Dana 44 Chromoly Axle Shafts
 
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'84 Bronco II said:
Yukon 4340 shafts with a lifetime warranty and Spicer 760X joints for under $400 all day long.
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I’m calling bs. Source?




Blt2rok imho you’ll benefit more from an axle swap via to a different D44 (with JK or possibly JL outers), D60 or go back to a Toy axle (aftermarket housing). Something with better platform, aftermarket support, and room to grow.
 
Thanks all for you replays and input. While this seems like a entry level question I've been wheeling for a long time and had quite a few Toyota only rigs. I've wheeled 37's for a long time and pretty sure I'll stick with those so I'm not really interested in a 1 ton swap. I just haven't had a Dana 44 and was really curious on what the best axle shafts were for it. I'm almost convinced in the end to go back with a Toyota axles and rcv's. I've only broken one of those and it was my error more then anything that did it.

Thanks again for the help and advice.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
arse_sidewards have you ever had a wheeler with 37" tires? :flipoff2:
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Not that I actually wheeled. :laughing:

'84 Bronco II said:
37" tires are kind of a funny transition size in my opinion where one ton stuff is too big and heavy to be worth it, but you're pushing 1/2ton stuff hard enough that you are going to need to dump some money in them to make them hold up to hardcore use. If you don't drive like a retard, you can do a whole lot of hardcore wheeling on parts the internet says will never work; Shit, I've seen people arguing that people need Dana 60s to run 35" DOT tires :laughing:
Click to expand...
Seems like everyone with a fullsize truck has no problem just slapping some 37s on (and maybe re-gearing) and rocking out at least until they get deeper into the build. Sure, more clearance is better but people seem to do just fine and be happy with it.

I'd rather have slightly bigger axles than be right at the limit of the smaller ones.
 
Blt2rok said:
Thanks all for you replays and input. While this seems like a entry level question I've been wheeling for a long time and had quite a few Toyota only rigs. I've wheeled 37's for a long time and pretty sure I'll stick with those so I'm not really interested in a 1 ton swap. I just haven't had a Dana 44 and was really curious on what the best axle shafts were for it. I'm almost convinced in the end to go back with a Toyota axles and rcv's. I've only broken one of those and it was my error more then anything that did it.

Thanks again for the help and advice.
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RCV’s
/🧵
 
Waggy 44's with chromolly axles and 39.5 Irocs was standard for a budget sammi build there for a couple years! The weakest link was the outer hubs, most of them would either upgrade to the heavier hub or do drive slugs... They are a good axle with plenty of aftermarket support. You aren't really upgrading if you go to a toyota front axle.

I'm running Scout D44 axles on my CJ7 and I'm running 38" tires. I have the Revolution Defender series 4340 w/ 760X joints, 30 spline innners and 27 spline outers with drive flanges on the hubs. I am yet to trash anything, but a am very easy on the throttle and try not to let things get bound up. My current weak link is my u-joints, but I couldn't get myself to pony up the $$ to upgrade u-joints for a D44, knowing I would be upgrading to d60 eventually.

Who'm ever said you can get chromo axles for sub $600... I'd like to see where!?!? Maybe pre 2020 you could, but now your average price is in the mid to upper 600 range for just a basic set with a standard u-joint.

Luckily for me, I am fixing to go wontons...


Since we are on the topic... We all talk about the likely hood of a D44 failing with big tires, but then I see JK rubicon w/ 40's wheeling and not blowing shit up... Is their D44 something special? When I owned Jk's I thought the housings were pure shit, hell I bent 2 housings on my first JK!
 
TrailTamer said:
I’m calling bs. Source?
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DFW Rusty said:
Who'm ever said you can get chromo axles for sub $600... I'd like to see where!?!? Maybe pre 2020 you could, but now your average price is in the mid to upper 600 range for just a basic set with a standard u-joint.
Click to expand...

Maybe not with Wagoneer stuff, but you definitely can with Ford axles. $375 with 760X joints chromemoly 4340 lifeteime warranty dana 44-Broncograveyard.com

$645 with Super Joints: D44 Chrome Moly 4340 Front Axle Set W/Solid Joints!-Broncograveyard.com
 
'84 Bronco II said:
Maybe not with Wagoneer stuff, but you definitely can with Ford axles. $375 with 760X joints chromemoly 4340 lifeteime warranty dana 44-Broncograveyard.com

$645 with Super Joints: D44 Chrome Moly 4340 Front Axle Set W/Solid Joints!-Broncograveyard.com
Click to expand...
Waggy stuff here, this is for drivers drop as that is the axle I have, but I can't imagine pass is any different.


Non fancy joints because non hardcore street jeep on 35's and fuck having to maintain joints on more than one rig. :flipoff2: Having to keep up on the endless maintenance on the buggy is enough, I just want to jump in the street jeep and drive it to the woods.



I tend to agree that a blinged out dana 44 with 37's is kinda borderline though. I got away with 37's and dana 44's on my sami for a long time but it was super light and had no torque. Once I went to 39.5's it was broken after nearly every trip. I even got the pleasure of finding out what the "Limited" part of Yukon's limited lifetime warranty is, apparently 18 shafts in 12 months is where they draw the line.

I wouldn't worry about upgrading the ring and pinion. I broke well over 20 shafts in the front and a few rears and never, ever had a single issue with the USA standard 5.38's gears.
 
Last edited:
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DFW Rusty said:
Who'm ever said you can get chromo axles for sub $600... I'd like to see where!?!? Maybe pre 2020 you could, but now your average price is in the mid to upper 600 range for just a basic set with a standard u-joint.

Since we are on the topic... We all talk about the likely hood of a D44 failing with big tires, but then I see JK rubicon w/ 40's wheeling and not blowing shit up... Is their D44 something special? When I owned Jk's I thought the housings were pure shit, hell I bent 2 housings on my first JK!
Click to expand...
Sub $600 yes, Sub $400 is some special Ford only deal, and I bet they just still have inventory that was bought pre-covid.

Dana 44 Chromoly Axle Shafts

Nitro Chromoly Dana 44 axle shaft Kit
eastcoastgearsupply.com

I think JK 44s don't blow up because people with JKs don't want to scratch their shiny paint.

JKs do have unique gear sets, which are allegedly 44% stronger, the OP referenced this, Jantz Engineering: Jana K4

The R&P doesn't answer why they don't blow up shafts, which was always my issue with my D44.

They don't have hubs to break, so in some ways that's a benefit.

As for bending, many companies make sleeve kits. I know some people that have run them, but they also babied their JKs Synergy Jeep JK, TJ/LJ, XJ, ZJ D30/44 Inner Axle Sleeve Kit
 
Jeffh555 The JKs and JLs use a larger U-joint than the legacy Dana 44s which has always been the Achilles Heel of old Dana 44s.

Also, JK axles only have the 8.9" ring gear in the rear (low pinion). The front axles are still 8.5", but have a different gear cut as you noted.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
Jeffh555 The JKs and JLs use a larger U-joint than the legacy Dana 44s which has always been the Achilles Heel of old Dana 44s.
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Ah yeah, I remember that now.

JK D44s have bigger gears, bigger u-joints, no hubs to break, and people baby them, so it all makes sense that they seem to fare better than Waggy 44s.

To add some interesting tech to this thread.

OG D44, 5-760X, 2.188 across, 1.188 dia
JK D44, 5-7166X, 2.406 across, 1.188 dia (1350WJ series, I assume the WJ stands for Wheel Joint, as this is different than a driveline 1350)

I had to include D60 dims for comparison
OG D60, 1480, 3.000 across, 1.375 dia
05+ D60, 1550, 3.780 across, 1.375 dia (these aren't stock in until somewhere in the mid 2010s, but are backward compatible and cheap upgrades to 05+)
 
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