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Vaccination mandates on the horizon.

Animalmother

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Since I'm not interested in starting another Covid thread...
Daughter has a middle-school trip coming up. It's paid-for a while ago, trip includes NY, DC, and some other stuff.
Today, they sent out a "your kid has to be vax'd to participate" email to all the parents involved.
To me, this is a contractual issue: we didn't agree to vax the kid when we signed up and paid for the trip. I'm 100% confident if we call and say "cancel it, we're not vax'ing the kid" they'll say "f-u we keep your money".
Any thoughts, advice, whatever, on arguing the contract angle, that they've changed the terms and we're entitled to back out? Or just pissing in the wind? I'm quite sure arguing over the safety or value of the vax is pointless, so I'm figuring the contract angle is the only likely one to have any teeth at all, and likely will cost me a lawyer who'll in turn cost me all the money I stand to get back. I'm down with that for precedent sake (if I have a decent chance of getting somewhere with that), but pointless is still pointless.
How are they verifying?

Quick story. Our company doesnt require the vax. A lot of customers do. A job came up and a big stink was made requiring anyone that steps foot on that job be vaxed. I kept my mouth shut and went to the job. No one ever checked.
 

montrose818

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How are they verifying?

Quick story. Our company doesnt require the vax. A lot of customers do. A job came up and a big stink was made requiring anyone that steps foot on that job be vaxed. I kept my mouth shut and went to the job. No one ever checked.

not of the airports checked my covid test, international flight, unfriendly countries (us and russia). But thats not to say thry wont in the future.
 

Void_of_Light

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Since I'm not interested in starting another Covid thread...
Daughter has a middle-school trip coming up. It's paid-for a while ago, trip includes NY, DC, and some other stuff.
Today, they sent out a "your kid has to be vax'd to participate" email to all the parents involved.
To me, this is a contractual issue: we didn't agree to vax the kid when we signed up and paid for the trip. I'm 100% confident if we call and say "cancel it, we're not vax'ing the kid" they'll say "f-u we keep your money".
Any thoughts, advice, whatever, on arguing the contract angle, that they've changed the terms and we're entitled to back out? Or just pissing in the wind? I'm quite sure arguing over the safety or value of the vax is pointless, so I'm figuring the contract angle is the only likely one to have any teeth at all, and likely will cost me a lawyer who'll in turn cost me all the money I stand to get back. I'm down with that for precedent sake (if I have a decent chance of getting somewhere with that), but pointless is still pointless.
I'de ask politely for a refund, and if they refused I would become very vocal as I am sure you aren't the only one. They seem to really not like you bringing stuff like this up at school board meetings.
 

ScottRS

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But is is what they want to support and normalize.
Which is why I think my issue is a born-loser as "I don't want to vax my kid". The only routes I see as possibly having merit are the medical privacy of a child (which I am only about 10% hopeful of support of) and contract violation (which I'm maybe 30% hopeful of). I'm financially OK with outright losing the money, as it was paid a while ago and we're OK, my objections are (I admit) pedantic, but I'm not OK with the idea of that you commit to something and the other side gets to change the terms at will and you're still stuck with the bill. I don't expect my kid to go for free, but I think right is right, if she doesn't go because they changed the rules late-on, she (we) should get refunded and do what we want with that someplace that respects rights.
 

nahmus

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I know that this is pure fantasy but if someone wants to raise their kid as the opposite gender or no gender at all and have the privacy to do so without public consent/gov consent why can't you raise your kid as unvaxed. I still think that "identifies as vaccinated" should count. If it is proven in court that saying you feel you are something when the facts state that you are indeed something different then how you feel that would stop the whole trans movement.

Personally I don't care. Do whatever makes you happy. Sadly that is not the way it is anymore.
 

Provience

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Since I'm not interested in starting another Covid thread...
Daughter has a middle-school trip coming up. It's paid-for a while ago, trip includes NY, DC, and some other stuff.
Today, they sent out a "your kid has to be vax'd to participate" email to all the parents involved.
To me, this is a contractual issue: we didn't agree to vax the kid when we signed up and paid for the trip. I'm 100% confident if we call and say "cancel it, we're not vax'ing the kid" they'll say "f-u we keep your money".
Any thoughts, advice, whatever, on arguing the contract angle, that they've changed the terms and we're entitled to back out? Or just pissing in the wind? I'm quite sure arguing over the safety or value of the vax is pointless, so I'm figuring the contract angle is the only likely one to have any teeth at all, and likely will cost me a lawyer who'll in turn cost me all the money I stand to get back. I'm down with that for precedent sake (if I have a decent chance of getting somewhere with that), but pointless is still pointless.
For kids, I 100% support false documents or outright lies. Otherwise, they will probably give you your money back.

Unless you kid is old enough to really understand, and at that point I'd let them decide and give as much information as possible on all sides about it.
 

Provience

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How are they verifying?

Quick story. Our company doesnt require the vax. A lot of customers do. A job came up and a big stink was made requiring anyone that steps foot on that job be vaxed. I kept my mouth shut and went to the job. No one ever checked.
The default assumption is you are in compliance.

During our brief vaxed don't need masks in wa state, we were talking to a best buy employee who said "man, I can't believe how many people are unvaxxed, they are all still masked up" :rasta:
 

Provience

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I know that this is pure fantasy but if someone wants to raise their kid as the opposite gender or no gender at all and have the privacy to do so without public consent/gov consent why can't you raise your kid as unvaxed. I still think that "identifies as vaccinated" should count. If it is proven in court that saying you feel you are something when the facts state that you are indeed something different then how you feel that would stop the whole trans movement.

Personally I don't care. Do whatever makes you happy. Sadly that is not the way it is anymore.
Identify is simply saying yes when somebody asks. Fake card, no card and just saying yes, whatever. It's perfectly acceptable.
 

nahmus

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and honestly if the vaccine were like the MMR one where it's sanitizing to the body and makes one unable to spread it I would have probably already taken it. I see no reason why if i have antibodies (as of 4 months ago) and the vaccine will not stop me from getting it, and not stop me from spreading it why I should put something in my body that I'm not sure of. And it's easy to say that they only had mild symptoms because of the vaccine because there is no way to prove other wise. Just like there is no way to prove that someone who dies while vaccinated would not have died anyway vaxxed or not.
 

Yota Up

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Which is why I think my issue is a born-loser as "I don't want to vax my kid". The only routes I see as possibly having merit are the medical privacy of a child (which I am only about 10% hopeful of support of) and contract violation (which I'm maybe 30% hopeful of). I'm financially OK with outright losing the money, as it was paid a while ago and we're OK, my objections are (I admit) pedantic, but I'm not OK with the idea of that you commit to something and the other side gets to change the terms at will and you're still stuck with the bill. I don't expect my kid to go for free, but I think right is right, if she doesn't go because they changed the rules late-on, she (we) should get refunded and do what we want with that someplace that respects rights.
You keep saying terms and contract. Do you have the contract so you can read it?
It might say something along the lines of "if you can't make the trip for ANY reason, money is gone" or something like that.
Read it and/or post it and get feedback from others here as well.
 

MattS

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You keep saying terms and contract. Do you have the contract so you can read it?
It might say something along the lines of "if you can't make the trip for ANY reason, money is gone" or something like that.
Read it and/or post it and get feedback from others here as well.
How old is this kid? Like Yota said most class trips are you go or lose your money because if even 1 or 2 kids don't go then the trip isn't funded. On the other hand. They cannot change the terms of allowing you to go either. If you met all the terms when you paid then you should be able to go. But with covid honestly it has to be the most stupid but powerful excuse I have ever seen.
 

Wades_76_cj7

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Wheelin66bronco

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I'de ask politely for a refund, and if they refused I would become very vocal as I am sure you aren't the only one. They seem to really not like you bringing stuff like this up at school board meetings.
This.
You paid for a trip and probably had to sign a form as the parent etc...then they changed the rules. They'd be stupid to not refund you based on you didn't sign off on your kids needing the jab initially.
Sucks for the kid, there's a lot of kids that won't get to go on trips anymore due to this BS.
 

rugger

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I just spoke with a guy here at work. He is arguably one of the most valuable employees that we have here onsite. He is a tech, and his hands are in most everything. He's an electrical, programming, test and troubleshooting wizard. He is absolutely essential to our night vision business. And, he's vehemently opposed to getting the vaccine.
 

0ilburner

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Just found out that my main customer contact has been put on ‘indefinite suspension’ over the mandate. Everyone is replaceable but at radically different costs, what is the value of 40+ years of experience?
 

Provience

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I just spoke with a guy here at work. He is arguably one of the most valuable employees that we have here onsite. He is a tech, and his hands are in most everything. He's an electrical, programming, test and troubleshooting wizard. He is absolutely essential to our night vision business. And, he's vehemently opposed to getting the vaccine.
Yup the adjustment is going to suck, but lots of people, outside ca, will be hanging their own sign.
 

husslr187

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interesting quote in the article

Unfortunately, as Jeffrey Morris at UPenn points out, public health officials and scientists have done plenty to undermine their own authority, like claiming masks don’t work, downplaying the natural immunity conveyed by previous covid infections, and not doing enough public communication about vaccine safety surveillance systems.

”We don’t want to feed the anti-vaccine trolls, so we actively suppress clear scientific data. Now we’ve lost the high ground,” Morris told me.





all i ever wanted was unaltered, unbiased, unpolitical data. Getting that though would require going through all the “covid” deaths and figuring out if it was the main cause of death or if they died and just happen to have covid as well. this also assumes that all the tests were accurate in the first place.
 

rockota

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interesting quote in the article

Unfortunately, as Jeffrey Morris at UPenn points out, public health officials and scientists have done plenty to undermine their own authority, like claiming masks don’t work, downplaying the natural immunity conveyed by previous covid infections, and not doing enough public communication about vaccine safety surveillance systems.

”We don’t want to feed the anti-vaccine trolls, so we actively suppress clear scientific data. Now we’ve lost the high ground,” Morris told me.





all i ever wanted was unaltered, unbiased, unpolitical data. Getting that though would require going through all the “covid” deaths and figuring out if it was the main cause of death or if they died and just happen to have covid as well. this also assumes that all the tests were accurate in the first place.

Steve is funding a lot of research and other efforts. He’s on a mission.
 

Void_of_Light

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Just found out that my main customer contact has been put on ‘indefinite suspension’ over the mandate. Everyone is replaceable but at radically different costs, what is the value of 40+ years of experience?
Any chance you can hire him? At least make noise that he was the only reason you did business with them. Being stupid is finally about to hurt.
 

rockota

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Just found out that my main customer contact has been put on ‘indefinite suspension’ over the mandate. Everyone is replaceable but at radically different costs, what is the value of 40+ years of experience?

This is how everyone is getting around firing people or paying unemployment... "we didn't fire anyone... we just put them on indefinite, unpaid administrative leave." It's passive aggressive at best, immoral at worst.
 

Void_of_Light

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This is how everyone is getting around firing people or paying unemployment... "we didn't fire anyone... we just put them on indefinite, unpaid administrative leave." It's passive aggressive at best, immoral at worst.
I would continue coming to work until they had the cops escort me out. Should leave no question on whose decision it was.
 

rockota

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I would continue coming to work until they had the cops escort me out. Should leave no question on whose decision it was.

it won't change the result.... with the potential exception of being fired for trespassing.
 

0ilburner

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Any chance you can hire him? At least make noise that he was the only reason you did business with them. Being stupid is finally about to hurt.

I am already in the process of being dismissed for 'failure to comply' also. So actually, it's ~70 total years experience between the 2 of us that goes away.
 

rockota

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Makes is awful hard to claim I abandoned my job which is what they are hoping for.
I anticipate a lot of poorly written policies and "you're on leave" forms that protect the companies quite well.
 

Grendel

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I anticipate a lot of poorly written policies and "you're on leave" forms that protect the companies quite well.
I anticipate a lot of those folks taking those policies and forms to court... and unemployment, which the employer has to pay for.
 

Wades_76_cj7

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Fed contractor here and we were told they won't fire us, just put us on indefinite unpaid leave.. so my guess is that way you can't collect UE. Nope you aren't fired so UE doesn't apply.. :flipoff:
 
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