TTB Tech Tips?

[arse_sidewards]

or lop the d50 lower ball joint stud dinguses outta the D50 beams and graft them onto the 44 beams
gonna be hacking the inner cs apart anyways to do the cut and turn, may as well flabbulate parts around

The D44 and D50 beams have different top and bottom ball joint locations from each other. You need to move both ball joint tapers, not just the bottom one. If it were that easy everyone would do it. To do it "right enough" you're gonna wind up building a temporary fixture at which point it's not any harder to graft the whole C.

 

[TTMotorsports]

D44 and D44HD/D50 are totally different. I'm running D50 on my truck. Factory D50 beams are really short so with big travel results in big camber change, which isn't good for crawling. I am trying something new and essentially extended the beams inside and outside the diff to get longest beams possible. I'm not running the truck in rock trails but it should work well and the limited times I will actually use 4x4

 

[TTMotorsports]

D44HD runs same BJ spacing as D50 but if wanting 8 lug go D50

 

[GTRV]

Most TTB application lift springs are way too stiff and short for good offroad performance since they are trying to cover up the deficiencies in the stock steering geometry that are magnified with soft springs and lots of travel. For a full size, I imagine a spring in the 300-350Lb/in range would probably work pretty well. Most TTB application lift springs are around 500Lbs/in.

really good information in just 4 pages here. I wish I read it back 2016 when I bought a TTB swapped E350. Modified and with sagged factory springs, It was a straight up handful on highway compressions and braking. The conversion dropped the mounting points by 2” but did not use a drop pitman I assume because the common 4 and 6 drop versions were too much. This increased the steering links angles and combined with sagged springs resulted in big toe changes during travel changes.

Spooked by the factory overly soft springs and wanting some lift, I of course went heavy. CC880s springs gave 1” lift (13” installed height). It was still a little darty wanting to get the links parallel to the TTB arms I added a 4” drop pitman. This brought the linkages parallel to the TTB arms and solved the dynamic toe issue.

The other issue was a loose lower radius arm bolt that allowed the TTB arm to rotate slightly changing caster. This created a crazy pull to the ditch. Everyone was telling me bushings. I’ve since read this lower bolt loosening is a problem. Replacing and properly torquing solved the issue for me.

The combination of the two problems made for fun times after hitting a compression at hwy speed, tires toeing out darting left or right, panic hit the brakes and then a hard pull to the ditch. The previous owner had given up and was planning a SAS but decided to dump it.

As a hwy cruiser I’ve been happy with it for a few years now … but performance even mildly rough roads especially washboard is horrid. This kind of defeats the purpose of the rig.

The moog cc880s springs I put in are quoted at 652lbs/in however they are variable rate and I suspect the lower coils might be higher rate. The design of the springs use upper coils that are intended to fully collapse (lower rate) and then ride on the top of much firmer coils. The manufacturers intent is to improve hwy driving and for that they are great.

However I would really like better rough road performance and would like to better use the limited wheel travel available. To do this a constant rate spring seems like the answer … but since I don’t know what the actual rate of spring I have now is, getting the right rate is not straightforward.

The CC880s specs are 652lbs/in and 16.6” free. The current installed height is 13”. This surprisingly lines up well with the rate. Moog quotes the load as 3006 lbs at 12” which is 653 lbs/in. At my installed height the 653 x 3.6 = 2350 lbs which I think is a little high, closer to corner weight vs sprung weight. Again the top 3” of the coil is collapsed to nearly bind (by design).

I think sprung weight is ~2000lbs per corner.

(it’s a D44 with D50 knuckles and 8lugs. I am right at the axle weight rating … this was one of my TTB discoveries. The work was done by the shop that did the 4x4 conversion. I’m watching wear items, it sees very light use. still … I know. I do like longer D44 arms, if I have a problem I’ll need them up)

Ok back to it … based on the recommendation above I am thinking I might try a 3”-4” lift spring. If they are too firm for a bronco/f150 might be perfect for the E350.

Does anyone know the rates for common lift coils?
Skyjacker
182 2?”
184 4”
186 6”, 623 lbs/in, 20-1/8” free

Any other coil recommendations, targeting high speed off-road.

This was the best and most recent TTB info I have found in years, thanks

 

[Projectjunkie]

really good information in just 4 pages here. I wish I had found it in 2016 when I bought a TTB swapped E350. It was a straight up handful on highway compressions and braking. The conversion dropped the mounting points by 2” and used factory springs however did not use a drop pitman. The combination of non parallel steering links and soft springs resulted in big toe changes during travel changes.

new springs that gave 1” lift and a 4” drop pitman brought the linkages nearly parallel to the TTB arms solved the dynamic toe issue.

The other issue was a loose lower radius arm bolt that allowed the TTB arm to rotate slightly changing caster. This created a crazy pull to the ditch.

The combination of the two problems made for fun times after hitting a compression at hwy speed, tires toeing out darting left or right, panic hit the brakes and then a hard pull to the ditch. The previous owner had given up and was planning a SAS but decided to dump it.

As a hwy cruiser now it’s amazing … but on even mildly rough roads it is horrid. The moog cc880s springs I put in are quoted at 652lbs/in however they are variable rate and I suspect the lower coils are much higher rate. The design of the springs use upper coils that are intended to fully collapse (much lower rate) and then ride on the top of much firmer coils. The manufacturers intent is to improve hwy driving and they are great at that.

However I would really like better rough road performance and would like to better use the limited wheel travel available. To do this a constant rate spring seems like the answer … but since I don’t know what the actual rate of spring I have now is, getting the right rate is not straightforward.

Sprung weight is ~2000lbs per corner.
(it’s a D44 with D50 knuckles and 8lugs. I am right at the axle weight rating … this was one of my TTB discoveries. The work was done by the shop that did the 4x4 conversion. I’m watching wear items, it sees very light use. still … I know.)

I based on the recommendation above I am thinking I might try a 3”-4” lift spring. If they are too firm for a bronco/f150 might be perfect for the E350.

Does anyone know the rates for common lift coils?
Skyjacker
182
184
186 623 20-1/8” free

Any other recommendations?

No answers, but post a couple pics of that bad boy

 

['84 Bronco II]

Any other coil recommendations, targeting high speed off-road.

Unfortunately, most application specific coil springs do not advertise spring rate, so there is going to be some trial and error involved unless you find someone else who has done some experimenting in a similar platform. I don't know what your fabrication skills are like, but I have been intrigued by the idea of making custom coil buckets/seats to run coil over springs which have a wide variety of lengths and rates.

Of course, coil overs are the much better and easier solution, but also very expensive.

 

[bdkw1]

Fuck all that lift coil nonsense. Convert to 3" coil over springs and have a vast selection of lengths and rates.

20" X 600# rides titties!

 

[GTRV]

Honestly I would spend the money on coilovers if they would last more than a couple winters. And to be honest I don’t trust the threaded shaft ends under a 1 ton diesel.

Man that is a great idea with the straight coils. I was thinking of something like what this guy did

Inverted jeep coil

Being able to cut even one side would be ideal

 

[Toreadorranger]

Fuck all that lift coil nonsense. Convert to 3" coil over springs and have a vast selection of lengths and rates.



20" X 600# rides titties!

Damn 600#? maybe im confused but thats stiffer then ttb lift springs.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Damn 600#? maybe im confused but thats stiffer then ttb lift springs.

Look at the pic. It's a 99-04 Superduty. I can see 600 being fine for a 7.3 if the shocks are tuned for "70s caddy".

Edit: In my experience you can get away with a lot of spring rate if you don't have much shock. Obviously it won't handle great or flex for shit but it'll at least ride comfy.

 

[Toreadorranger]

Look at the pic. It's a 99-04 Superduty. I can see 600 being fine for a 7.3 if the shocks are tuned for "70s caddy"

that makes way more sense now.

 

[GTRV]

 

[GTRV]

Damn 600#? maybe im confused but thats stiffer then ttb lift springs.

Hmm I didn’t realize you were also making a recommendation on spring rate. That makes total sense. Guys are running 250-300lb on rangers with 1000lb corner weights so double that should be close to perfect.

Really glad I found this thread I was obsessed with finding some moog 8914 springs 890lbs and 15.5” free length but I figured that they would give me the installed height of 13” I need to keep geometry and alignment happy.

I’m going to keep researching the over spring TTB lift springs. I have so many projects, proper bumpers, a sterling for the rear …

 

[GTRV]

Fuck all that lift coil nonsense. Convert to 3" coil over springs and have a vast selection of lengths and rates.

20" X 600# rides titties!

I’m curious what you are doing for the rear? I have an old explorer I hope to convert to coilovers on all corners and a 4 link in the rear but for the van, I was thinking of trying to mod the factory leafs. Deavers are not in the budget.

 

[bdkw1]

I’m curious what you are doing for the rear? I have an old explorer I hope to convert to coilovers on all corners and a 4 link in the rear but for the van, I was thinking of trying to mod the factory leafs. Deavers are not in the budget.

Rear is stock. I wanted to level it out, but finding a 2" lift spring for a 2X beamed SD is impossible. If you can find the specs on the spring there's only about a 50% chance they are correct.

If I do anything with the rear it will be 4 link with airbags. Cause tow rig.

 

[bdkw1]

Notch the beams AKA move the lower BJ out. 1/2" with 3deg eccentrics will take 2" of lift no problem.

 

[GTRV]

The ball joint relocation option is probably beyond my skills but way simpler that a cut and turn. I will see how the spring search goes.

So true about the factory springs and specs. Every custom spring shop sells the same generic aftermarket springs around me. Being a van I’m carrying around most of the weight all the time. The only difference is 2 additional passengers and gear.

 

[bdkw1]

Anybody need a set of 880hd springs, free-fiddy plus shipping.

16.5 long and I think 570 rate. Low miles, will remove the blown bags and spacers. They sit about the same hieght as stock SD springs.

 

[bdkw1]

The ball joint relocation option is probably beyond my skills but way simpler that a cut and turn.

I can do a set in about an hour, on the vehicle. It ain't hard once you've done it and know where to cut.

 

[posford]

I can do a set in about an hour, on the vehicle. It ain't hard once you've done it and know where to cut.

Wanna vacation in New England and do the Dana 50 under my 250?

 

[Thatg9659]

bdkw1 are new in coil airbags still available, if so where?

 

[GTRV]

MW components factory spring cross ref

MW components application list

Moog Spring Specs in this table the TTB springs are usually PT - PT. Load rating is the corner weight. Installed height is compressed length under load rated load.

TTB coil specs Spring list heights and rates ranger focused

Maybe this helps someone, I decided last night I am converting to eibach coils.

 

[bdkw1]

bdkw1 are new in coil airbags still available, if so where?

Bags are blown. That was the last straw that prompted the 3.0 coil swap.

 

[GTRV]

Did you modify the lower spring seat to accept the coilover spring?

The spring seats on mine have been moved outwards (the van frame rails are wider) and raised 2” (consistent with brackets etc) to maintain the factory spring height. (A smaller diameter coil would be a nice bonus for alignments, as it is I just remove the tire for every adjustment.)

Also I forgot they added a spacer to the lower BJ seat to accept the D50 knuckle.

 

[bdkw1]

Did you modify the lower spring seat to accept the coilover spring?

The spring seats on mine have been moved outwards (the van frame rails are wider) and raised 2” (consistent with brackets etc) to maintain the factory spring height.

Also the notch isn’t going to be simple for me.

Yes. Super ghetto fab, some black pipe to center it and a 1/4" plate ring to make it the right size. All welded to the cast stock mount with the MIG and 308L wire.

 

[bdkw1]

Also, D50 beams aren't much harder to do. You just need to pop the BJ's loose for final welding.