Tractor hydraulics… edit help me un fu(k my tractor

[grumpy356]

This is a John Deere 5105 and possibly the sorriest tractor ever made.

Moisture gets in the hydraulic system.

I drained it again and it’s gross.

Is there something I can pour in to it to flush out the “reservoir” that the residue will evaporate out?

I have a cylinder off to be repacked so i can wait a few days before putting the plugs back in.

Can I use diesel?

 

[AKnate]

Flush with hydraulic oil.

Run diesel through and good luck getting it out.

Had a worker fill my hydraulic tank with diesel on a Bobcat. 4 years later and easily $700 of oil and filters and it still stinks of old diesel.

 

[sdmuleman]

If you want to pump it through the system, no. Going to be pretty much impossible to even get out, and solvents generally don't lubricate worth a darn. Might be able to fill the reservoir and then drain it without turning over tractor and have some degree of success, though depends on how sure you can be that it will all drain out. Would need to be a fairly strong solvent to do much good. Personally, I'd be temped to put a couple gallons of gasoline in for an hour or so, drain it and then leave it open for a while to evaporate out. Obviously need to be extremely careful about fire risk, fumes, etc.

I've noticed that the 303/J20C yellow bucket fluid seems far more susceptible to that problem than UTF - been fighting the same problem with a couple of my rigs. Thought I could get away with the cheap fluid for certain machines and have wound up regretting that decision.

 

[PAToyota]

If anything, you'd want something that would absorb the water - like alcohol. Diesel or gasoline isn't really going to do anything to help get the water out of there. Despite the condition of your current fluid, that's from the heat and pressure mixing the fluid and water. Just flushing hydraulic fluid through isn't going to pick up much of the water.

 

[AKnate]

If you want to pump it through the system, no. Going to be pretty much impossible to even get out, and solvents generally don't lubricate worth a darn. Might be able to fill the reservoir and then drain it without turning over tractor and have some degree of success, though depends on how sure you can be that it will all drain out. Would need to be a fairly strong solvent to do much good. Personally, I'd be temped to put a couple gallons of gasoline in for an hour or so, drain it and then leave it open for a while to evaporate out. Obviously need to be extremely careful about fire risk, fumes, etc.

I've noticed that the 303/J20C yellow bucket fluid seems far more susceptible to that problem than UTF - been fighting the same problem with a couple of my rigs. Thought I could get away with the cheap fluid for certain machines and have wound up regretting that decision.

I wouldn't use "303" in anything other than maybe a bottle jack. It's super low quality stuff.

 

[grumpy356]

NEXT QUESTION…. And I’m kinda embarrassed I have to ask.

This is the 4 -wheel drive lever.

But under it …. It looks… wrong

Like the pin should pivot in the groove.
Like it got forced out. And the stroke seems very limited.

Any idea?

 

[Krackle959]

That appears to be the MFWD lever, based on the parts diagrams. Do you have a way to verify that it’s going into FWD? Not sure if something got over extended or forced, but it doesn’t look like it’s moving enough to be working.

 

[aczlan]

I wouldn't use "303" in anything other than maybe a bottle jack. It's super low quality stuff.

100% https://www.nu-tierbrands.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/did_you_know_john_deere_303_thf.pdf
I wouldn't use anything that didn't at least meet the JD 20C spec and I prefer it meet the Kubota SUDT spec.

Aaron Z

 

[sdmuleman]

For many simple hydraulic systems there's really no reason for anything better than super low quality - all you need is something with sort of close to the right viscosity and some degree of lubricity. Now, if you're using in a power shift trans, complex hydraulic system, wet brakes, etc., then yes you definitely need something better. Especially with older machinery that leaks - hard to justify 30% higher cost when it's going to wind up on the ground. The issue of forming scum with any amount of water is definitely a problem though.

All the hype about 303 being outdated and class action lawsuits are really just idiots that don't understand. Old spec doesn't mean it's garbage. Just like an old engine, old rig, etc. However, you need to understand what it's limits are. You wouldn't expect a CJ-5 to do 70 on the freeway and be equal to a modern car in safety, but that doesn't mean it's not just as good offroad. Same with 303 - works well for old simple systems, and anyone using cheap oil for a fancy system deserves what they get.

 

[aczlan]

For many simple hydraulic systems there's really no reason for anything better than super low quality - all you need is something with sort of close to the right viscosity and some degree of lubricity. Now, if you're using in a power shift trans, complex hydraulic system, wet brakes, etc., then yes you definitely need something better. Especially with older machinery that leaks - hard to justify 30% higher cost when it's going to wind up on the ground. The issue of forming scum with any amount of water is definitely a problem though.

All the hype about 303 being outdated and class action lawsuits are really just idiots that don't understand. Old spec doesn't mean it's garbage. Just like an old engine, old rig, etc. However, you need to understand what it's limits are. You wouldn't expect a CJ-5 to do 70 on the freeway and be equal to a modern car in safety, but that doesn't mean it's not just as good offroad. Same with 303 - works well for old simple systems, and anyone using cheap oil for a fancy system deserves what they get.

The tractor the OP referenced was made from 2000-2007 with a wet disk brakes and an independent PTO (ie: probably wet clutches).
Not something I would put 303 anywhere near.
For a Ford N series that doesn't share fluids with anything else, sure.
Much newer (especially if it's sharing implements) and it's a hard no.
Its not enough cheaper to be worth the hassle.

Aaron Z

 

[AKnate]

For many simple hydraulic systems there's really no reason for anything better than super low quality - all you need is something with sort of close to the right viscosity and some degree of lubricity. Now, if you're using in a power shift trans, complex hydraulic system, wet brakes, etc., then yes you definitely need something better. Especially with older machinery that leaks - hard to justify 30% higher cost when it's going to wind up on the ground. The issue of forming scum with any amount of water is definitely a problem though.

All the hype about 303 being outdated and class action lawsuits are really just idiots that don't understand. Old spec doesn't mean it's garbage. Just like an old engine, old rig, etc. However, you need to understand what it's limits are. You wouldn't expect a CJ-5 to do 70 on the freeway and be equal to a modern car in safety, but that doesn't mean it's not just as good offroad. Same with 303 - works well for old simple systems, and anyone using cheap oil for a fancy system deserves what they get.

There's few reasons to not use at least "cheap" aw32 or THF than 303.

Not even sure how that stuff is still sold. It's not just that it's outdated, but it's used as a catch all for garbage blends.

I'm not an idiot that doesn't understand... understanding lubricants is part of my job.

 

[sdmuleman]

There's few reasons to not use at least "cheap" aw32 or THF than 303.

Not even sure how that stuff is still sold. It's not just that it's outdated, but it's used as a catch all for garbage blends.

I'm not an idiot that doesn't understand... understanding lubricants is part of my job.

You miss the point. I agree you're not an idiot. Point was that the guy who gets the cheapest fluid in the store for a expensive tractor because it's "recommended for" and then sues when the tractor explodes is an idiot.

 

[V30crewcab]

I would use the tractor supply hytrans in it. its a version of the deere hygaurd, and its made to absorb and hold water much better than standard hydro fluid. it has antifoam additives and such since its made to work in hydro transmissions. its a very good all around fluid.
what you really need is a hydraulic filter cart. it can flush al the bad fluid out and replace it. I just used diesel on my old backhoe though. lifted everything up, dumped the fluid and let it all down. worked great on that older machine.

 

[Gdogg]

Yeah.... a contaminated hydraulic system is a mess to clean up, if you don't drain 100% of it out the first time you just keep diluting what you left in the system. You have to empty every cylinder the first time, drain the tank and blow out the lines you only diluted the mess.
I wonder how much a dealer would charge to fix a piece of equipment with contaminated hydraulic system, I know it depends on how big the system is, but I'll bet it could cost as much as the value of some equipment.

 

[aczlan]

Yeah.... a contaminated hydraulic system is a mess to clean up, if you don't drain 100% of it out the first time you just keep diluting what you left in the system. You have to empty every cylinder the first time, drain the tank and blow out the lines you only diluted the mess.
I wonder how much a dealer would charge to fix a piece of equipment with contaminated hydraulic system, I know it depends on how big the system is, but I'll bet it could cost as much as the value of some equipment.

Time and materials...
Depends on what it's contaminated with.
If it's water I have heard of running the fluid through a heater to boil off the water as it runs through it.

For a tractor, I would get the fluid warm, lower the 3 point all the way down, lift the loader all the way up, fully curl the bucket, shut the tractor off, disconnect the pressure line feeding the loader valve, start draining the hydraulic tank (or transmission if it shares the fluid there), then with the tractor off, dump the bucket, then lower the loader and curl the bucket as it lands.
Then you have the cylinders pretty much empty and you can pull the hoses at the cylinder end to blow them out from the valve end as well as blowing out the tank and power beyond lines all the way back to the tank (if you have time, let it sit for a day and blow the lines out again).
I would then change the filter, refill the reservoir, reconnect all the hoses except the high pressure input to the loader valve, start it up and dump the hydraulic fluid into a bucket for 20-30 seconds (or until it's clear), then shut it off, reconnect the last hose, top off the fluid and run it for a half hour doing loader work and see how it looks.
If it's still nasty, repeat the process, by the 2nd time you should have at least 90% of the fluid replaced.

Aaron Z

 

[Gdogg]

Time and materials...
Depends on what it's contaminated with.
If it's water I have heard of running the fluid through a heater to boil off the water as it runs through it.

For a tractor, I would get the fluid warm, lower the 3 point all the way down, lift the loader all the way up, fully curl the bucket, shut the tractor off, disconnect the pressure line feeding the loader valve, start draining the hydraulic tank (or transmission if it shares the fluid there), then with the tractor off, dump the bucket, then lower the loader and curl the bucket as it lands.
Then you have the cylinders pretty much empty and you can pull the hoses at the cylinder end to blow them out from the valve end as well as blowing out the tank and power beyond lines all the way back to the tank (if you have time, let it sit for a day and blow the lines out again).
I would then change the filter, refill the reservoir, reconnect all the hoses except the high pressure input to the loader valve, start it up and dump the hydraulic fluid into a bucket for 20-30 seconds (or until it's clear), then shut it off, reconnect the last hose, top off the fluid and run it for a half hour doing loader work and see how it looks.
If it's still nasty, repeat the process, by the 2nd time you should have at least 90% of the fluid replaced.

Aaron Z

I agree with your plan, that’s probably the best plan to solve the contamination problem.
The only time I had to deal with a contaminated hydraulic system was on a zeroturn mower, so the system isn’t very big or complicated.

Just an FYI, sounds like you work on tractors and equipment, on a zeroturn most of those components are made by HydroGear, I was able to buy a kit for the pump to rebuild it for under a $100, it’s simple as shit to do, a new pump was $600.
I’ll bet a lot of this other hydraulic components are repairable instead of replacing.
Gary

 

[bgaidan]

I agree with your plan, that’s probably the best plan to solve the contamination problem.
The only time I had to deal with a contaminated hydraulic system was on a zeroturn mower, so the system isn’t very big or complicated.

Just an FYI, sounds like you work on tractors and equipment, on a zeroturn most of those components are made by HydroGear, I was able to buy a kit for the pump to rebuild it for under a $100, it’s simple as shit to do, a new pump was $600.
I’ll bet a lot of this other hydraulic components are repairable instead of replacing.
Gary

Those also don't have a lot of places for fluid to be hiding when you're trying to drain/flush. A tractor has a lot of lines and cylinders where contaminated hydraulic juice can hang out while you drain the rest of the system.

 

[[486]]

this is the kinda shit where it's really handy to have a drum of used ATF sitting around, after a few months all the particulate is at the bottom

just flush that shit through with zero regard for what it costs because it was free to begin with
who cares if you put 40 gallons through to get it running sorta clear

Not even sure how that stuff is still sold. It's not just that it's outdated, but it's used as a catch all for garbage blends.

you're telling me it doesn't have whale oil in it any more!?!?!?!?

dude, don't be a retard
it ain't no different than your bulk oil delivery hoses, how many gallons of product do you waste flushing them through when switching between different oils? whatever it is, it ain't enough to get it 100%
and the mixed oil from that that's "wasted", why not sell it to someone who wants "some sorta generic oil type product" without any regard to certification papers

 

[AKnate]

this is the kinda shit where it's really handy to have a drum of used ATF sitting around, after a few months all the particulate is at the bottom

just flush that shit through with zero regard for what it costs because it was free to begin with
who cares if you put 40 gallons through to get it running sorta clear


you're telling me it doesn't have whale oil in it any more!?!?!?!?

it ain't no different than your bulk oil delivery hoses, how many gallons of product do you waste flushing them through when switching between different oils? whatever it is, it ain't enough to get it 100%
and the mixed oil from that that's "wasted", why not sell it to someone who wants "some sorta generic oil type product" without any regard to certification papers

Lines get cleared with on board air blow out system and then ~5 gallons flushed through.

It's a mix of probably 50 different oils as well as fuel. It gets used for heat.

 

[Tiha]

Hook it on a 3 bottom plow and go plow 20 acres. I guarantee the moisture will be gone.

In other words, unless it is sitting in the rain, and even if it was, you simply not working the tractor hard enough.