Toyota 3.5 VVT Solenoids

[Muckin_Slusher]

So, been dealing with over-retarded engine code on 2015 sienna.

V engine, with 4 camshafts. Each camshaft gets it's own OCV (oil control valve) or VVT (variable valve timing) solenoid. Each camshaft also gets it's own position sensor.

All 4 sensors are the same.

Apparently the two intake OCV are the same part number, while each exhaust OCV is different from each other, and different from the intake valves. The actual solenoid and valves are all the same, with the difference being where the retention bracket is and the electric connection (straight or 90 degree).

My error is bank 1 intake, which is the head closest to the firewall.

I've tried swapping sensors and the problem stayed with the same bank. I then ordered a replacement OCV since to get it out I have to remove intake manifold and a bunch of other shit. Didn't want to get that deep without parts on hand.

Seems to me that the two solenoids closest to the intake manifold are the intake OCVs, and that thought is confirmed in the first pic (see red aarow):

After getting into the stuff on the engine, I couldn't change the OCV for bank 1 intake, as it's not the same fucking thing as bank 2 intake. My part was the same as bank 1 exhaust.


Pics below are (1) intake (2) exhaust (3) exhaust. Note the "exhaust" valves have 90 degree electrical connectors and the "intake" one is straight.




Something's fucked up somewhere and I don't know where to find reliable info. Either the OCVs on bank 1 are mixed up from the above diagram, or the two intake OCVs are NOT the same part number.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

My problem is that I switched the easy to get to cam pos sensor (and problem stayed in same location), but if that's for the exhaust cam, then I didn't prove the sensor is not my problem...

The camshafts closest to the intake manifold are the intake cams, and the camshafts closest to the exhaust manifolds are the exhaust cams, right?

 

[Fishnbeer]

If you have the old parts removed, can you read off the part #'s and cross reference that way?

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

If you have the old parts removed, can you read off the part #'s and cross reference that way?

Didn't even bother with that. it's easy and perfectly clear to see which part is which by looking at the electrical connector orientation, as well as the bracket location.

I didn't look at the new one, but I can look at the old one (although it is corroded).

This is pics of the engine. I have circled in red what I believe are the intake OCVs and green are the exhaust OCVs. It's clear that the two that are closest to the intake manifold are not the same part.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

I'm pretty sure that I've just replaced an exhaust OCV.

The thing that bothers me is that everything I can find on the net says that both intake OCV are the same, but it seems that they are not.

 

[Gtrplyr78]

Not much of a help, I would test OCV valves prior to replacing them with new parts. Some jumpers - out to battery - presto.

Perhaps a quick oil change with a good oil like Rotella 5w40/new oil filter and flog the crap out of it. I have seen threads where people in Miata circles got around over retarded Bank 1 issues doing just this. Rotella has good cleaning properties with all the detergents in it and what not. As we all know a lot of people out there do not maintain what they have, and run long OCI’s.



I chased this issue on my 2001 Miata for a good bit. OCV was operating fine in my case, but any time I drove thwas still triggering CEL.
When I took it apart (VVT timing gear that is) - whomever was working on it before didn’t assemble viton seals in their respective places. That solved my dilemma on the car.
Internet was full of all kinds of solutions/answers and it was a work digging through that to find something useful.

 

[speed bump]

What code numbers are you getting?

Also I agree, fuck these engines, between my 07 Camry that I spent 2 months chasing a P0300 and my wife's 15 highlander that needed head gaskets at 70k I'm not a fan.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Not much of a help, I would test OCV valves prior to replacing them with new parts. Some jumpers - out to battery - presto.

Perhaps a quick oil change with a good oil like Rotella 5w40/new oil filter and flog the crap out of it. I have seen threads where people in Miata circles got around over retarded Bank 1 issues doing just this. Rotella has good cleaning properties with all the detergents in it and what not. As we all know a lot of people out there do not maintain what they have, and run long OCI’s.



I chased this issue on my 2001 Miata for a good bit. OCV was operating fine in my case, but any time I drove thwas still triggering CEL.
When I took it apart (VVT timing gear that is) - whomever was working on it before didn’t assemble viton seals in their respective places. That solved my dilemma on the car.
Internet was full of all kinds of solutions/answers and it was a work digging through that to find something useful.

I did have both bank 1 OCVs in my hands, and checked them both. Both were 7.8 to 8.1 ohms, both moved freely and both activated when 12 volts was applied.

Seems that my issue could be the position sensor. I thought I had proven them by swapping places, but...now I'm not 100% sure I swapped the correct one, and the other one is well behind the intake manifold, which needs a pile of stuff removed to access.

I also put in some seafoam (in the correct amount) for the last 300 miles before an oil change. I've used royal purrple in this thing for about half a dozen oil changes. I've also checked the oil screens (perfect clean).

Also, I haven't noticed any differences in performance when the code pops up.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

What code numbers are you getting?

Also I agree, fuck these engines, between my 07 Camry that I spent 2 months chasing a P0300 and my wife's 15 highlander that needed head gaskets at 70k I'm not a fan.

P0012 intake (A) cam shaft position timing over retarded Bank 1

I don't have a fancy logging OBDII scanner, just a cheapo code reader.


EDIT: Oh, and yeah, fuck these engines. Honestly how difficult would it have been to make all four fucking solenoids use the same mounting screw and connector angle (just like literally every hall-effect sensor out these...ABS on GMC hubs, crank POS on 4 stroke Skandics, crank POS sensor on hyundai accent...etc).

Stupid solenoid just needs to be held in place, the o-ring doesn't even need compression.

 

[speed bump]

I'm sure you have seen this in your searching but these guys have pretty useful information for the 2GR-FE

Toyota Sienna Service Manual: Camshaft Position "A" - Timing Over-Advanced - Diagnostic trouble code chart - SFI system - 2GR-FE Engine control system

www.tsienna.net

From reading through it I would start it and warm it up, then apply 12v to the sensor and see what happens. If it makes the idle change or die the VVT is working, if not I would guess valve or that terrible not so easy oil line. The cam position sensor I would guess would set a P0340

 

[Lbhsbz]

There are filters for the timing control oiling in the cylinder heads...they might be clogged. Easier to buy new ones and just change them than clean them...last ones I got were about $8 each.

 

[Cryptictoy]

Any sign's of rodents? My mother's highlander had some partial chewed wires and did some odd stuff that we had to chase around.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

There are filters for the timing control oiling in the cylinder heads...they might be clogged. Easier to buy new ones and just change them than clean them...last ones I got were about $8 each.

Yes, mine are in the two banjo bolt external oil lines. First thing I did was remove and inspect, they were perfectly clear. I poked a small hole in one while removing so I ordered two new ones.

Any sign's of rodents? My mother's highlander had some partial chewed wires and did some odd stuff that we had to chase around.

Actually yes, when I removed the decorative cover there was a nest. They had chewed the foamy stuff on the cover, but all the wiring looks perfect.

The stuff giving me trouble is on the back side where the wiring is more out in the open. I'll have a good check if I end up pulling the intake manifold to get back there. Everything I've had access to is ok. Fucking mice.

My new holland skid steer had a nest in the headliner. Little fucking things had the entire headliner to make their nest and they pick on top of the fuse block. It's like they know where they can do the most harm.

Bunch of wires there that had the insulation chewed off. I gave the whole thing a bunch of coats of brush-on electrical tape and it's been good ever since.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

From reading through it I would start it and warm it up, then apply 12v to the sensor and see what happens. If it makes the idle change or die the VVT is working, if not I would guess valve or that terrible not so easy oil line. The cam position sensor I would guess would set a P0340

That's a neat trick.

It'll be a trick to connect wires to that particular valve, as it's on the back side of the head. Would be easy if I could chop a connector off a junkyard harness though.

Overall, I think the damn computers are too sensitive to errors. Motor's running fine. So what if the timing's isn't exactly cock-on every now and then.

 

[WTF?]

i'd guess you got the wrong part in the box. is there Any reason you didn't order the pair of them and do both while you were in there?

I had an intermittent issue with a code point me to VVT OCV on an 02 Avalon it only had 2 OCV's not 4, but the replacements were sold in pairs and looked just like #1 in you pics, and so i swapped both of them to be done with it ( the internet says that once 1 fails, the other is generally not far behind. )

it fixed the code, but i couldn't tell a damn bit of difference in the function of the old ones between the one that was throwing a code and the one that was not problematic, so don't overthink the old part inspection.

 

[Chkn]

P0012 will can be:

• Valve timing
• Camshaft timing oil control valve assembly (for intake side of bank 1, 2)
• Oil control valve filter
• Oil pipe
• Camshaft timing gear assembly
• ECM

OCV part numbers:
15330-0P030 - Bank 1 intake
15330-0P020 - Bank 1 Exhaust
15330-0P020 - Bank 2 Intake
15340-0P020 - Bank 2 Exhaust

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

OCV part numbers:
15330-0P030 - Bank 1 intake
15330-0P020 - Bank 1 Exhaust
15330-0P020 - Bank 2 Intake
15340-0P020 - Bank 2 Exhaust

Thank you!

Not sure where you found that, but I'm sure it's accurate as it jives with real life.

Red numbers are the same part numbers, which is what I've found.

I'm gonna take it up with Rockauto, they've only got one intake valve listed (as in same for bank1/bank2).

Edit: How the fuck do these part number misprints last on Rockauto? I fucking know I'm not the first dickhead to order this and it not be the right part...

 

[Chkn]

Thank you!

Not sure where you found that, but I'm sure it's accurate as it jives with real life.

Red numbers are the same part numbers, which is what I've found.

I'm gonna take it up with Rockauto, they've only got one intake valve listed (as in same for bank1/bank2).

Edit: How the fuck do these part number misprints last on Rockauto? I fucking know I'm not the first dickhead to order this and it not be the right part...

I know a guy...

 

[det107]

How the fuck do these part number misprints last on Rockauto? I fucking know I'm not the first dickhead to order this and it not be the right part...

Thread/

 

[Lbhsbz]

Don’t know where you are located, but you really should have a scanner with bidirectional controls for this diag. You can command the actuators and watch how much the timing changes…or if it changes.

I have a loaner tool you can borrow for the price of shipping if you’d like that’ll do the job. Message me.

 

[DMG]

Thank you!

Not sure where you found that, but I'm sure it's accurate as it jives with real life.

Red numbers are the same part numbers, which is what I've found.

I'm gonna take it up with Rockauto, they've only got one intake valve listed (as in same for bank1/bank2).

Edit: How the fuck do these part number misprints last on Rockauto? I fucking know I'm not the first dickhead to order this and it not be the right part...

Rock auto is a garbage dropshipper that sends out the shit parts from everyone’s warehouses because all the parts manufacturers hate them. They have no customer service and dont care. If you use Rockauto you deserve what you get.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Rock auto is a garbage dropshipper that sends out the shit parts from everyone’s warehouses because all the parts manufacturers hate them. They have no customer service and dont care. If you use Rockauto you deserve what you get.

Wow. I thought they were generally well regarded. I recall they were a vendor back on the old site.

I've had the wrong part shipped (in the RIGHT box) before and the return/replacement was painless and very quick, especially considering shipping to Canada.

Who would you recommend? I tried the part number on the parts counter here (both Toyota's number, and Gates number which is a brand listed that irate carries), and returned nothing.

 

[Lbhsbz]

Most of the internet places are like rock auto…cariD, etc…. They just drop ship, carry no stock, whore out parts making only a few percent to cover their minuscule overhead, and generally piss of off the brick and mortar stocking distributors.

they are linked with all the major WDs (Parts Authority, NPW, Hansens, etc…) so their site is a great way to find what’s out there in auto parts land without calling 10 different places, but there is nobody to pick up the phone or provide any support….you get what you pay for.

 

[DMG]

Wow. I thought they were generally well regarded. I recall they were a vendor back on the old site.

I've had the wrong part shipped (in the RIGHT box) before and the return/replacement was painless and very quick, especially considering shipping to Canada.

Who would you recommend? I tried the part number on the parts counter here (both Toyota's number, and Gates number which is a brand listed that irate carries), and returned nothing.

I would use amazon, the dealer, Napa, anyone over rock auto.

 

[87manche]

and people say BMW engines are too complicated, but I only have two OCVs and they're both the same part and easily swapped.

what have you done to yourself toyota?

 

[WTF?]

i Use rock auto’s parts catalogue for part #’s and then shop Amazon & eBay For lowest price+ shipping. 9 times out of 10, Amazon/ eBay beats rock autos price after added shipping cost.

15330-0p020 2015 Toyota Sienna XLE Mini Passenger Van 5-Door 3.5L: Search Result | eBay

Buy and sell electronics, cars, fashion apparel, collectibles, sporting goods, digital cameras, baby items, coupons, and everything else on eBay, the world's online marketplace

www.ebay.com

the Toyota parts aren’t exactly known to be robust , so I’d go for the cheapest option and replace the pair While I was in there.

Left&Right Variable Valve Timing Solenoid for Lexus Toyota 2005-2017 1533031020 | eBay

Engine Valve Cover. Lexus RX450h 2010-2017 V6 3.5L Petrol Left & Right Side. Lexus RX350 2007-2017 V6 3.5L Petrol Left & Right Side. Lexus ES350 2007-2017 V6 3.5L Petrol Left & Right Side. Timing Chain Kit.

www.ebay.com

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

is there Any reason you didn't order the pair of them and do both while you were in there?

Only reason is that it's not a failure that will leave me stranded and also the other solenoids are a 5 minute swap without needing anything else disassembled.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Dear Wyatt,

Thank you for the prompt response.

I can assure you with 100% certainty that your catalog is listed incorrectly. That valve I purchased fits the bank #2 intake as well as the bank #1 exhaust (which is why it was installed, as we trusted YOUR catalog number). I have since verified the correct part numbers with Toyota directly, and have included Toyota's schematic.

I have also included pictures from my engine, with the intake valves circled in red and the exhaust valves circled in green. You can clearly, and undeniably see that the two valves closest to the intake manifold are most certainly NOT the same part number.

I've always had a great customer experience with Rockauto, with thousands of dollars of parts ordered, but I can assure you that if this is not corrected then you have seen the last of my business, and I WILL share my experience with others.

Regards,

Slusher

---

From: RockAuto Customer Service <[email protected]>
Sent: September 13, 2021 9:12 AM
To: slusher <[email protected]>
Subject:Re: [Ticket#1089367900] Wrong Part Description

Dear Slusher,

We’re sorry there is a problem with your order. The part you purchased will only fit if your vehicle meets the requirements noted in the part description:
Part number 153300P020 is listed as the OE replacement for all Intake valves for your vehicle while the 153300P030 and 153400P020 are listed as the OE replacement for Exhaust Right and Exhaust Left, respectively. These OE numbers are the same across different manufacturers and order history suggests these are not listed incorrectly on our catalog.
We're sorry, but our Return Policyexplains that we cannot accept returns on parts that have been installed, modified, or otherwise cannot be resold as new. We apologize for the inconvenience.
We cannot do exchanges, so if you still need the correct part, please reorder according to the part description on RockAuto.com. If you need further assistance, please see our Help page or click the links below:
Which part will fit my vehicle?
Does my vehicle have that feature?
Understanding Descriptions

Thank you,

Wyatt
RockAuto Customer Service

RockAuto HELP
http://www.rockauto.com

Slusher <[email protected]> wrote:
This is regarding order # 1566817616

Your website has incorrect descriptions for toyota 3.5 VVT solenoids. Your site has them listed as both intake solenoids being the same, while they are not.

Correct part numbers:

15330-0P030-Bank 1 intake
15330-0P020-Bank 1 Exhaust
15330-0P020-Bank 2 Intake
15340-0P020-Bank 2 Exhaust

I ordered part number 15330-0P020 to replace my faulty bank 1 intake valve, when it was part number 15330-0P030 that was required.

Your site has that part number listed as an Exhaust solenoid.

Trusting your descriptions I replaced my bank 1 exhaust valve.

I now cannot return the part as it has been installed, and the website is of no help to me.

How can we correct this situation?

-Muckin_Slusher

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

i Use rock auto’s parts catalogue for part #’s and then shop Amazon & eBay For lowest price+ shipping. 9 times out of 10, Amazon/ eBay beats rock autos price after added shipping cost.

So when you buy the wrong part number because you trusted rockauto it's on you.....

(although to be fair, this is the first wrong part number problem I've had with them...).

 

[WTF?]

So when you buy the wrong part number because you trusted rockauto it's on you.....

(although to be fair, this is the first wrong part number problem I've had with them...).

well in this case, i'd have bought the pair, so i would have the right one.