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torsion axle trailer drop deck equalizer linkage thingie of confusion

[486]

[486]

ugh, that guy again?
Joined
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pine city MN
Hokay so this is the earf

trailer.jpeg


so I saw a trailer where it had torsion axles that would pivot in mounts on the frame to drop the deck on the ground
They were sorta like this picture, except both pivot arms were on the bottom of the tube and they were linked together with a hydraulic cylinder going from that connecting bar to the frame to raise/lower them simultaneously.

I figure a configuration like this with a cylinder between the axles would act as an equalizer and still allow the trailer to be dropped flat on the ground for loading
smush the cylinder together and it drops, expand the cylinder and it picks up
Maybe flip them front and rear, have it the other way around, extend the cylinder for "down" and have it fully collapsed for ride height. You have constant pressure on the gland seal, but the cylinder will be more rigid and the rod will be protected. Dunno.

Anyone see holes in my logic?
 
1oddtech said:
You would need a much larger cylinder to retract the cylinder and lift the trailer.
Click to expand...
only need more piston area by the area of the rod, which isn't very significant unless it's some wierd ass fast-retract logsplitter cylinder
 
just had the thought, splitting the torsion axles in the middle would make it independent suspension, too
 
[486] said:
Hokay so this is the earf

trailer.jpeg


so I saw a trailer where it had torsion axles that would pivot in mounts on the frame to drop the deck on the ground
They were sorta like this picture, except both pivot arms were on the bottom of the tube and they were linked together with a hydraulic cylinder going from that connecting bar to the frame to raise/lower them simultaneously.

I figure a configuration like this with a cylinder between the axles would act as an equalizer and still allow the trailer to be dropped flat on the ground for loading
smush the cylinder together and it drops, expand the cylinder and it picks up
Maybe flip them front and rear, have it the other way around, extend the cylinder for "down" and have it fully collapsed for ride height. You have constant pressure on the gland seal, but the cylinder will be more rigid and the rod will be protected. Dunno.

Anyone see holes in my logic?
Click to expand...

What holds the axles in position? You have to link to the frame or they just flop over.
 
clodhopper said:
What holds the axles in position? You have to link to the frame or they just flop over.
Click to expand...
gray part rotates in frame brackets
tab on bottom of front and tab on top of rear are connected with a hydraulic cylinder (not pictured for clarity of diagram)
 
[486] said:
gray part rotates in frame brackets
tab on bottom of front and tab on top of rear are connected with a hydraulic cylinder (not pictured for clarity of diagram)
Click to expand...

Yep. Your setup with the cylinder crossed up between them would rotate the two in them in the same direction. Sure. That requires each axle shell to rotate freely, right? Or are you using the cylinder to fight the spring of the axle to get height adjustment? If the axle shell spins, or the axle guts spin relative to the shell, whatever, you still have a problem. The cylinder ONLY holds relative position between the axles, so they both rotate together. What holds them in place relative to the trailer (or ground, whichever) to support the load? With no link ot the frame, the frame will just drop down.

You described the version you saw with a rigid link between the axles and a cylinder from one to the trailer frame. This is the simple manner to do what you want.

Maybe I completely misunderstand your goal here....
 
total newb said:
One thing that was told to me and proven true, load the cyl wall not the gland.

Cyls that have constant on the glad tened to eat the glands and constant leak.

Not to mention that if the system does fail, it collaps and stays down.
Click to expand...
Yeah that crossed my mind too, if it fails with the cylinder working in either direction it'd be on the ground.
Easy enough to add a second pipe with a pin in it to lock the travel, then the pressure in the cylinder can be released.
ETA: I was also thinking of a simple screw jack sorta setup, to be spun with an impact wrench.
 
Looks plausible. Wonder if it would be easier to ditch the torsion axles and just use regular drop axle, add your pivot and bracket, and put an airbag between.
In any case packaging might get tricky and still be able to take advantage of the benefits of a drop axle.

I kind of like the ANTS style but pricey.
 
I guess what I am thinking is the axles would cross up with differing tire loads. I will agree it wont roll over and drop the trailer after thinking on it a bit more.

The axle rotation during travel will push loads back and forth between the axle "springs" as tire load and vertical positions change (ie bumps). If the first axle rides up a bump, some load will be absorbed by the torsion axle, but the axle can rotate transferring load to the rear axle spring. I see some benefit there when only considering one side. Unless you split the axles for the independent suspension, a bump on one side of the axle will affect the ride on the opposite side. Wont the axle shell will be constantly spinning back and forth during travel moving load around between the tires all the time?

The frame link holds position static so the dynamic issues dont play a part. Maybe I am overthinking it.

Capture22.JPG
 
This just drops the whole bed down to the ground on angled tracks . . .

www.detrotrailers.com

2024 Air Tow 3D-12 6' x 12' 15K Telescopic Dump Trailer w/ Ground Level Loading | Detro Trailers | New and used car haulers, enclosed cargo and utility dump equipment flatbed trailers | Indianapolis, IN.

<p><strong>The Multi-Purpose, Two-In-One Drop-Deck & Dump Trailer</strong><br />The widely popular 3D (<strong>D</strong>rop-<strong>D</strong>eck & <strong>D</strong>ump) model is the world's only trailer of its kind, offering the dual-purpose flexibility of being both a drop-deck and dump
www.detrotrailers.com www.detrotrailers.com
 
If this is for the hack fab FWD based material hauler thing I would simply go with air bags for ride quality. We both know that the hauler you can comfortably daily drive is much more likely to score you that sweet deal on material than the one you gotta go home to get (inb4 someone from where "life moves slowly" starts talking about trailers)

You might also consider watching The Cheiften on Youtube. He has a million videos crawling around old tanks and makes a point to cover the suspension systems. Pretty much any tandem axle equalizing setup you can think of has already been tried on a tank wheel bogie.

[486] said:
I just gotta find some torsion axles for suitably cheap
Click to expand...
Promaster axles on car-part. They're leaf sprung drop axles and already set up for automotive brakes with a parking brake and are approximately the width you need. They're not torsion but they've got a nice deep drop to them.

You can also get a limitless supply of tires from the dumpster because there's fucktons of them on the roads. :flipoff2:
 
arse_sidewards said:
If this is for the hack fab FWD based material hauler thing I would simply go with air bags for ride quality. We both know that the hauler you can comfortably daily drive is much more likely to score you that sweet deal on material than the one you gotta go home to get (inb4 someone from where "life moves slowly" starts talking about trailers)

You might also consider watching The Cheiften on Youtube. He has a million videos crawling around old tanks and makes a point to cover the suspension systems. Pretty much any tandem axle equalizing setup you can think of has already been tried on a tank wheel bogie.


Promaster axles on car-part. They're leaf sprung drop axles and already set up for automotive brakes with a parking brake and are approximately the width you need. They're not torsion but they've got a nice deep drop to them.

You can also get a limitless supply of tires from the dumpster because there's fucktons of them on the roads. :flipoff2:
Click to expand...
Why would automotive brakes be a good thing unless we're heading down an "abs pump based hydraulic trailer brake actuator" worm hole too?
 
larboc said:
Why would automotive brakes be a good thing unless we're heading down an "abs pump based hydraulic trailer brake actuator" worm hole too?
Click to expand...
OP has said many times that he hates trailers so I don't think this is for a trailer. :laughing:
 
clodhopper said:
I guess what I am thinking is the axles would cross up with differing tire loads. I will agree it wont roll over and drop the trailer after thinking on it a bit more.
Click to expand...
that's kinda the point of an equalizer linkage, let one axle kick the other down

heck, lots of stuff gets away without any spring suspension beyond a solid bonkitybonkity what's the fuckin word... I had it in my head then I lost it
Walking beam. That's the term.

arse_sidewards said:
OP has said many times that he hates trailers so I don't think this is for a trailer. :laughing:
Click to expand...
They don't have enough drop, and I hate rear disc brakes possibly enough to buy hydraulic trailer backing plates
 
[486] said:
They don't have enough drop, and I hate rear disc brakes possibly enough to buy hydraulic trailer backing plates
Click to expand...

See if you can score a "nice" (intended for saltwater and made in the last 20yr) boat trailer by promising to dispose of the shitty boat on top of it. "Nice" boat trailer brake shit exists on a spectrum from "basically galvanized" levels of zinc plated to stainless.

But you also live in freshwater land so there's probably 100x as much of the normal trailer stuff kicking around too because the dealers know that the thin shitty powder coat and hardware store level of zinc on the hardware will still last long enough so it's what they put under the boats they sell.
 
[486] said:
I just gotta find some torsion axles for suitably cheap
Click to expand...
Buy some bent ones.

I've been kicking around the idea of building unit bearing style trailer axles for a while. I've got a nice 18' trailer, I just can't justify spending $18k for an air drop trailer.

Elec over hydraulic sucks, but works better and more often the electric trailer brakes too.
 
Friend of mine did exactly what you’re thinking, but used airbags out of gmc motorhomes instead of torsion axles. I wish I had a picture. Downside was a blown bag could strand you, but he bought a couple of rubber? pucks to put in if that happened so he could ease on to a good place to stop.
 
ToughBowtieTruck said:
This just drops the whole bed down to the ground on angled tracks . . .

www.detrotrailers.com

2024 Air Tow 3D-12 6' x 12' 15K Telescopic Dump Trailer w/ Ground Level Loading | Detro Trailers | New and used car haulers, enclosed cargo and utility dump equipment flatbed trailers | Indianapolis, IN.

<p><strong>The Multi-Purpose, Two-In-One Drop-Deck & Dump Trailer</strong><br />The widely popular 3D (<strong>D</strong>rop-<strong>D</strong>eck & <strong>D</strong>ump) model is the world's only trailer of its kind, offering the dual-purpose flexibility of being both a drop-deck and dump
www.detrotrailers.com www.detrotrailers.com
Click to expand...

Holly shit, I like that. Not $26k like it, but it would be sweet for so many activities. I need something like that, but car hauler width, longer and with removable sides so it can convert between hauler and dump trailer. :smokin:
 
Ditchrunner said:
Downside was a blown bag could strand you,
Click to expand...
Replace the center bag with one of those bag in spring setups they sell for Ford vans.

Or OP being OP he could probably just use a 600lb/in TTB coil and suffer the rough ride.

01.jpg
W8006413-P1-800x800_2.JPG
 
bgaidan said:
Holly shit, I like that. Not $26k like it, but it would be sweet for so many activities. I need something like that, but car hauler width, longer and with removable sides so it can convert between hauler and dump trailer. :smokin:
Click to expand...
Guy I know has one to move his forklift from jobsite to jobsite. Not a dump version, just drop deck. Loads at ground level then lifts up to move. It is pretty nice, but he paid a LOT for it.
 
Found this. Thought of you.

I know it doesn't address your original post, but I believe we both of us like things to be as simply and stupid as possible.

I'd have to think about it, but I'm sure there's a simply way to make the tongue pivot, allowing it to remain attached to the tow pig so she don't fuck right off on ya.

82b237edf0c795e5aea048c6bcafbe36.jpg
c31f59e723722f439eccc44d570ab309.jpg
 
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That is neat. I did similar concept on our local 4x4 club’s RTI ramp. We had to have at least 3 men, 2 to lift the ramp and a third to pin axle. Added the hand crank with a pulley to make it a 1 man job and no more crushing toes.
 
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