TJ Rubicon Rear Dana 44 constant problems need opinions

[fl0w3n]

My 8.8 is extremely budget build, and I haven’t beat on it hard enough to have first hand experience to say it’ll survive… but from my research 35s should be fine even stock and 37-40 is doable with some building. The DED episode with 4runners on Fordyce, the black 4 runner was running 40s on an d50/8.8 combo with 231 doubler.

I got my 8.8 for like $95 at the JY, couple hundred on Rock Auto brakes, $1k to gear it to 4.88 and a mini spool, and whatever a ruff stuff cover costs. I’m into it well under $2k.

Edit: in the drag world 8.8s are a go to budget as well. I think I’ve seen them live up to 1k hp junkyard LS China boi whirely setups

 

[Winchested]

I was going to say the 8.8 is still used under half tons pushing more way power than a Jeep 4.0.

And then there's the new Super 8.8 under most 15+ F150s. More than handles V8 power.

Jeep Jk stock Dana 44s have weak tubes and bend axle shafts with 37s all the time. Friend just had some wheeled once or twice Yukon's bend on on him.

Whatever it is you do a truss is a must if you keep wrecking a 44 on 35s.

 

[Leadfoot21]

Always read in disbelief that 8.8’s are anything special . 4.0 explorers destroy them. I’ve replaced dozens and dozens of them.

 

[MigGunslinger]

I was going to say the 8.8 is still used under half tons pushing more way power than a Jeep 4.0.

And then there's the new Super 8.8 under most 15+ F150s. More than handles V8 power.

Jeep Jk stock Dana 44s have weak tubes and bend axle shafts with 37s all the time. Friend just had some wheeled once or twice Yukon's bend on on him.

Whatever it is you do a truss is a must if you keep wrecking a 44 on 35s.

We were discussing a custom axle that uses the JK center section with heavy wall tubes and 35 spline shafts. Stock JK44 was not in the running.

 

[Byro]

Here is the comparison between an old style D44 (left) and a JK44 (center) and a D60 (right, 7.17 gear) Both are D44s are 4.56 ratio. The JK44 uses the same bearing ID size as the D60.

 

[Winchested]

We were discussing a custom axle that uses the JK center section with heavy wall tubes and 35 spline shafts. Stock JK44 was not in the running.

Yota keeps saying Jk44s are great...

 

[TrailTamer]

Always read in disbelief that 8.8’s are anything special . 4.0 explorers destroy them. I’ve replaced dozens and dozens of them.

What went bad on them?

 

[TrailTamer]

8.8 is the cheap and easy answer.

I’m with the slowpoke.

Ford 8.8 is the “install and forget it” like the good ol’ 14b

OP’s front axle will fail (and many times over) long before F8.8 will.

 

[BDK]

I've had the OEM 8.8 in my 1994 Explorer all over the country on every type of trail. I flat tow it behind the RV, multi-day off road excursions, rocks, high speed desert, etc. Only part of it remaining OEM is the housing and tubes. 35's, Detroit, 5.13 gears, Yukon C-clip eliminator kit, disc brakes off a 99 Explorer. Current gears have about 100,000 miles on them and still look great. If I was building a 8.8 I would weld the tubes and add a truss, like the small one from Barnes. I should have done that when I installed the C-clip eliminator kit and new carrier bearings a few years ago. I did the C-clip eliminator kit because I could eliminate the wheel adaptors (5on4.5 to 5on5.5 to match the HP D44 up front), adds 2" overall width, chromoly axles and big bearings.

I also welded in a few stacked triangle shaped pieces of plate a buddy with a plasma table sent me to the bottom of the diff. It filled in the rock catcher lip and added about a inch of steel.

The only issues I've ever had was when I had a Noslip lunchbox locker blow on the Rubicon. It got wedged in locked so it was like a spool the rest of the trip. Real fun on the eight hour I-5 drive home. Had to cut it out to install the Detroit. That's been at least 15 years. When I had it apart a few years ago, I noticed the ring gear bolts were loose. When I pulled it apart, they were actually stripping out. The gears are thick, the bolts were the standard 3/4" threads. I replaced them with 1" threads ARP bolts and orange thread locker.

It's the most bang for your bucks. A custom axle will be much stronger.

 

[BDK]

Always read in disbelief that 8.8’s are anything special . 4.0 explorers destroy them. I’ve replaced dozens and dozens of them.

User name checks out...

I've wheeled with mostly Ranger based vehicles for decades and have only seen two 8.8's blow. One was due to wheel hop with shitty leaf springs twisting and caused the pinyon gear to bind. The other was lack of any type of maintenance over a decade of hard off road use.

I've seen two year old D44 Rubicon axle shafts break for no real reason at all, except that we were as far into the mountains as we could get on the Swamp Lake Trail. When we got the axle apart, the other shaft had twisted splines. Dude was not a skinny pedal masher.

There are a lot of factors to consider when upgrading axles.

 Budget
Time
Do you mash the skinny pedal to the floor while locked with the Atlas and doubler in low range with a tire firmly pressed against a boulder, while chugging your 12th Coors Light at 10AM? If this is you, you will break shit, and you and your trail companions will spend hours fixing your shit instead of wheeling. Eventually the novelty will wear off, they will get tired of your trail breakage and you will find yourself being invited less and less.

 

[Dan]

My 8.8 is extremely budget build….

I got my 8.8 for like $95 at the JY, couple hundred on Rock Auto brakes, $1k to gear it to 4.88 and a mini spool, and whatever a ruff stuff cover costs. I’m into it well under $2k.

With a mix of junkyard and aftermarket parts I could build a complete FF 609 rear with 35 spline shafts for about 2k. Probably $1500 if I’m on a crazy budget and reuse junkyard axle shafts, and hub bearings. Throw another 1k at brakes and you could have a very lightweight axle.


But then again not everyone wants 8 lug and full float axles, or has access to decent junkyards.

 

[Leadfoot21]

What went bad on them?

Everything you could list . I have hundreds of them in my fleet .

User name checks out...

I've wheeled with mostly Ranger based vehicles for decades and have only seen two 8.8's blow. One was due to wheel hop with shitty leaf springs twisting and caused the pinyon gear to bind. The other was lack of any type of maintenance over a decade of hard off road use.

I've seen two year old D44 Rubicon axle shafts break for no real reason at all, except that we were as far into the mountains as we could get on the Swamp Lake Trail. When we got the axle apart, the other shaft had twisted splines. Dude was not a skinny pedal masher.

There are a lot of factors to consider when upgrading axles.

 Budget
Time
Do you mash the skinny pedal to the floor while locked with the Atlas and doubler in low range with a tire firmly pressed against a boulder, while chugging your 12th Coors Light at 10AM? If this is you, you will break shit, and you and your trail companions will spend hours fixing your shit instead of wheeling. Eventually the novelty will wear off, they will get tired of your trail breakage and you will find yourself being invited less and less.

It is employees of the company I work for, not myself . I think I’ve replaced half a dozen 8.8’s in the past 2 months.

 

[fl0w3n]

With a mix of junkyard and aftermarket parts I could build a complete FF 609 rear with 35 spline shafts for about 2k. Probably $1500 if I’m on a crazy budget and reuse junkyard axle shafts, and hub bearings. Throw another 1k at brakes and you could have a very lightweight axle.


But then again not everyone wants 8 lug and full float axles, or has access to decent junkyards.

I paid someone to setup the gears in that #, are you setting up gears in your example? If I could I would, just haven’t attempted or bought the tools.

8 lug full float wouldn’t help me on my current rig, but maybe in the future it could. What’s your recipe?

 

[Dan]

I paid someone to setup the gears in that #, are you setting up gears in your example? If I could I would, just haven’t attempted or bought the tools.

8 lug full float wouldn’t help me on my current rig, but maybe in the future it could. What’s your recipe?

-Junkyard Dana 70 w/35 spline shafts (complete axle) $200

-Junkyard 9 housing (bare) $70

-complete strange 3rd with 35 spline hd drag spool(already set up and ready to bolt in with motive gears & timkin bearings) shipped $1,177.25 (to my house, ymmv)


So $1447.25 for all the parts on a super budget.


Add $500 or so for axle shafts if you want a custom width - for that I would try to grab a dana 60FF from a e350 with factory disc brakes for the donor.

Continue to add money to your hearts desire.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I was going to say the 8.8 is still used under half tons pushing more way power than a Jeep 4.0.

And then there's the new Super 8.8 under most 15+ F150s. More than handles V8 power.

The 8.8 in newer F150s is not the same as an explorer one, so that's pretty irrelevant. Not to mention wheelin is a lot different than driving down road. 10 bolts live long life's in a lot of V8 trucks too, but that doesn't make them a good axle for a crawler.

Jeep Jk stock Dana 44s have weak tubes and bend axle shafts with 37s all the time. Friend just had some wheeled once or twice Yukon's bend on on him.

Whatever it is you do a truss is a must if you keep wrecking a 44 on 35s.

Now you really are laying it on they're the same size tubes as the explorer 8.8

Even a pretty mild JK on 37s is 6500lbs before loading up with people and gear for a wheelin trip. Not to mention lot of guys wheel them in JKs without issue. I don't think there is a single component of the 8.8 that's bigger than a JK44.

-Junkyard Dana 70 w/35 spline shafts (complete axle) $200

-Junkyard 9 housing (bare) $70

-complete strange 3rd with 35 spline hd drag spool(already set up and ready to bolt in with motive gears & timkin bearings) shipped $1,177.25 (to my house, ymmv)


So $1447.25 for all the parts on a super budget.


Add $500 or so for axle shafts if you want a custom width - for that I would try to grab a dana 60FF from a e350 with factory disc brakes for the donor.

Continue to add money to your hearts desire.

For 1, junkyard 9" are getting pretty scarce and I'd be shocked to find one for $70. Which is fine, because those housings are junk and not worth the time to build one. Dirt head Dave twisted and bent the crap out of his on 37 at's

 

[TrailTamer]

Now you really are laying it on they're the same size tubes as the explorer 8.8

Even a pretty mild JK on 37s is 6500lbs before loading up with people and gear for a wheelin trip. Not to mention lot of guys wheel them in JKs without issue. I don't think there is a single component of the 8.8 that's bigger than a JK44.

I get what you’re saying but I am pretty sure they’re about 5” wider than TJs.

 

[arse_sidewards]

10 bolts live long life's in a lot of V8 trucks too,

No. They really don't.

Now you really are laying it on they're the same size tubes as the explorer 8.8

Even a pretty mild JK on 37s is 6500lbs before loading up with people and gear for a wheelin trip. Not to mention lot of guys wheel them in JKs without issue. I don't think there is a single component of the 8.8 that's bigger than a JK44.

For 1, junkyard 9" are getting pretty scarce and I'd be shocked to find one for $70.

Check your local pick-n-pull price list. $70 is about right for a bare housing.

Thankfully everyone is lazy like you these days so if you find a vehicle that's been sitting there for a year it probably still has the axle housing.

Which is fine, because those housings are junk and not worth the time to build one. Dirt head Dave twisted and bent the crap out of his on 37 at's

Only takes a little bit of steel to make them not crap. Can't be lazy and be cheap. If you're gonna be cheap you gotta work at it.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I get what you’re saying but I am pretty sure they’re about 5” wider than TJs.

I first thought that, but he mentioned picking up a wider crate axle and never said what front he's using (unless I missed it)

No. They really don't.

I said "some" OK, not all

Check your local pick-n-pull price list. $70 is about right for a bare housing.

Maybe, but good luck finding one.

Thankfully everyone is lazy like you these days so if you find a vehicle that's been sitting there for a year it probably still has the axle housing.


Only takes a little bit of steel to make them not crap. Can't be lazy and be cheap. If you're gonna be cheap you gotta work at it.

I've already done it. Added a bunch of trussing to a land cruiser axle and still bent it. Besides, building a custom axle and being super cheap, don't go well together.

If you want to save money, go this route and use the 8 lug doner tubes.

C/E4210 -Mild Steel 9" Fabricated Housing Weld-Up Kit

C/E4210

www.chassisengineering.com

 

[MigGunslinger]

The front axle is a stock TJ rubicon 44 with Reid racing knuckles that let me use old school Dana 44 parts. That setup is 2” total wider than the stock 60-1/2”. So a rear axle around 63” would be perfect.

To be extra clear I am not considering a stock JK axle. Although they are a popular swap for TJs for all of the reasons Yota is pointing out.

 

[fl0w3n]

No. They really don't.







Check your local pick-n-pull price list. $70 is about right for a bare housing.

Thankfully everyone is lazy like you these days so if you find a vehicle that's been sitting there for a year it probably still has the axle housing.


Only takes a little bit of steel to make them not crap. Can't be lazy and be cheap. If you're gonna be cheap you gotta work at it.

My local PNP yard doesn’t keep things much longer than a couple months I feel like.

 

[Dan]

For 1, junkyard 9" are getting pretty scarce and I'd be shocked to find one for $70. Which is fine, because those housings are junk and not worth the time to build one. Dirt head Dave twisted and bent the crap out of his on 37 at's

Ready to be shocked? I just picked up 2 of these for $65/ each, same day and yard. Did you see the part in my post about not everyone having access to decent junkyards.

Also your buddy Dave didn’t truss his junkyard housing which is silly. That housing failure probably could have been avoided with a backbone truss.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Ready to be shocked? I just picked up 2 of these for $65/ each, same day and yard. Did you see the part in my post about not everyone having access to decent junkyards.

Also your buddy Dave didn’t truss his junkyard housing which is silly. That housing failure probably could have been avoided with a backbone truss.

Like I said, Ive been down that road spending lots of time trussing up stock housings, only to bend them anyway. By the time you waste time finding a housing, pulling it, and adding a truss, you could probably afford a lower end new housing.

Another example

Rhodes Race Cars 16-0003-60 Rhodes Race Cars Fabricated Ford 9 in. Housings | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Rhodes Race Cars Fabricated Ford 9 in. Housings with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Axle Housings at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[Dan]

Like I said, Ive been down that road spending lots of time trussing up stock housings, only to bend them anyway.

Which housings are you speaking of? Got any pics of the truss design?

By the time you waste time finding a housing, pulling it, and adding a truss, you could probably afford a lower end new housing

I didn’t have to work that day so the time spent finding it and pulling it (less than 2 hours) unfortunately didn’t save me enough money for anything worth buying.

Another example

Rhodes Race Cars 16-0003-60 Rhodes Race Cars Fabricated Ford 9 in. Housings | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Rhodes Race Cars Fabricated Ford 9 in. Housings with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Axle Housings at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

That kit comes with 3x1/4 axle tubes and the factory tubes are larger at 3-1/4x1/4. Only benefit is the shell and internal bracing which could be added to a factory housing anyway.

 

[u2slow]

The '80s Ford D60SF is another strong/cheap axle... just saw one for $150 recently. 65" wide. Already 35 spline. Use as-is or turn the flanges down to make it 5-lug.

If the width bugs you, can adjust it with wheel backspacing.

 

[Tech Tim]

x2 on the just say NO to the 8.8.

If you really want to go with a junkyard axle project, go with a 98+ Trooper D44. It is a decent housing, you can load up the bigger JK gears, ARB and a 35 spline shafts with your 5.5 pattern. Truss it and run it. Plus it is 63" WMS, so a better match for your wider front. Also disc brakes from the factory and as a bonus, it's an Isuzu rear, so cheap price.

JK Ring and pinion are well worth the upgrade if you're going to stay D44.

Ford 9" is the king. If you want high pinion, go Tru Hi9 and then talk with Sandy Cone, get one of his HP 9 pinion supports. Better bearing arrangement and decent oiling. Farravanti was running them in his 4400 car before GW came out with their bling stuff.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

x2 on the just say NO to the 8.8.

If you really want to go with a junkyard axle project, go with a 98+ Trooper D44. It is a decent housing, you can load up the bigger JK gears, ARB and a 35 spline shafts with your 5.5 pattern. Truss it and run it. Plus it is 63" WMS, so a better match for your wider front. Also disc brakes from the factory and as a bonus, it's an Isuzu rear, so cheap price.

JK Ring and pinion are well worth the upgrade if you're going to stay D44.

Ford 9" is the king. If you want high pinion, go Tru Hi9 and then talk with Sandy Cone, get one of his HP 9 pinion supports. Better bearing arrangement and decent oiling. Farravanti was running them in his 4400 car before GW came out with their bling stuff.

Does the Isuzu axle have an advantage of the TJ D44 besides a few inches in width.

 

[Beat95yj]

My thoughts:

JK rear Dana 44 housings are almost free. I have had a couple of friends give them away because they could not sell them. The ring and pinion are much improved over the bullshit TJ 44. Get some 35 spline shaft from carbon and party. Maybe add a truss.

Carbon did talk me out of the 44 and into a currie Hi pinion 60 for my build. Because of my tire size.
(38) and the fact that my friends that wanted to borrow the jeeps peel out real hard. The stiffness of the 60 housing is a big improvement.

I don’t know why you think currie can’t match your bolt pattern. One of my very close friends has the same axle in his TJ, the only difference from mine is he’s 5 on 5 1/2. My jeep only has about 1000 highway miles on it, his has closer to 20,000. I don’t think he’s ever opened it up except to change the oil before a trip.

SF 9 or 60 would be my choice. The main difference between the two is the gears. Typically the outersare set 10 or set 20 on either.

 

[MigGunslinger]

I want to ask ECGS a couple of questions about their JK44 axle before I decide what I’m doing. I’d like to know tube diameter and wall thickness. And what if any strength difference between the set 10 and set 20 bearings. I assume the larger OD set 20 has more rollers in contact making it stronger?

I know Currie or any of these companies can make whatever I ask for but custom adds cost and lead time as well as making replacement parts harder to source.

I’d be more inclined towards a 9” or 60 if I had some rear stretch. As it sits my 44 is about a half inch from the gas tank I think fitting a 60 would open a huge can of worms. That is why the aftermarket HP60 housing was appealing it moves the cover over the axle gaining clearance where it matters.

I appreciate all of the knowledge that has been dropped in this thread. I have learned a lot.

 

[Beat95yj]

Neither myself or my friend have rear stretch. Mine is an LJ, his is a TJ.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I want to ask ECGS a couple of questions about their JK44 axle before I decide what I’m doing. I’d like to know tube diameter and wall thickness. And what if any strength difference between the set 10 and set 20 bearings. I assume the larger OD set 20 has more rollers in contact making it stronger?

I know Currie or any of these companies can make whatever I ask for but custom adds cost and lead time as well as making replacement parts harder to source.

I’d be more inclined towards a 9” or 60 if I had some rear stretch. As it sits my 44 is about a half inch from the gas tank I think fitting a 60 would open a huge can of worms. That is why the aftermarket HP60 housing was appealing it moves the cover over the axle gaining clearance where it matters.

I appreciate all of the knowledge that has been dropped in this thread. I have learned a lot.

I'd think the crd style axle would be worse for gas tank clearance?

As far as a regular 60, the brand of the cover definitely makes a huge difference. The ruff stuff one I have is gigantic.