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Thinking about getting an FFL license.

Slammed&cammed

Slammed&cammed

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So I co own a hardware store actually two stores. Thinking about getting my FFL and saving some friends some money and possibly increasing my collection.

If I do it I'll start a separate LLC and run the business in my current storefront...any FFL holders, gunstore owners willing to chime in?

Thanks,

Jon
 
I looked into it years ago. I am sure a lot has to do with your location.

besides all the paperwork you have to fill out to apply for, after you apply there are regulations regarding the building, security and storage of the firearms.
Being you are a hardware store already I am sure that helps as most likely you have some type of security system in place.

The firearms need to be locked up in a safe or cage when business is not open. The cage can be the building depending building security.

For me the hardest part was the sheriff has to come and inspect the location and recommend upgrades or changes. Depending on the sheriff and political climate. He can say ok, or he can make it impossible for you to obtain his permission.

If he denies you then you have to pay the fees and start the process all over.

If that applies to you, maybe contact him first? Because the sheriff can say "well I would feel better if" you had a safe, or cameras, or separate building or who knows. He may have no legal basis for his requested upgrades, but what you gonna do, sue them? You are not saving money there.

Then of course you will need insurance to cover it all.

In edit, I will add, when I originally did this I called my sheriff, I was living in the country of a small county and pretty much laughed at me and said it wouldn't be a problem. Moving to the city shortly there after and contacting the sheriff he told me it would be difficult to provide safe storage although my house and location is much more secure than where I was. Indicating to me it wasn't worth the hassle.
 
I wouldn’t recommend it. The money you save friends isn’t worth it and you’d be better to convince one of them to do it. ‘I’ll give you ‘$100 towards a safe for the ffl’ will show you how little interest they have in obtaining the ffl. Just because you have a hardware store and a business license doesn’t mean you’re handed an FFL any different than them.
 
I have a friend with an FFL that he got because he does gunsmith work. 99% of the time his dealer price is higher than what he can buy a gun from Palmetto state for. He does free transfers for us, but if it wasn't needed for his other business he wouldn't bother with it.
 
Not a lot of margin in firearms, but I think it would be a good addition to a hardware store. If you do it right there is ok money in used guns, new is all about volume and pricing. I know several folks around me that have FFL's as a side business and do enough transfers to pay for the license fee, but in this area competition is fierce. It's hard to make money at $25 a transfer and 10% over dealer price.
 
I have found that many folks do well on transfers, in and out and paid cash. lots of folks price themselves out of it. 15 or 20 bucks a transfer is easy money to a business that is all ready there.
 
Norm said:
Not a lot of margin in firearms, but I think it would be a good addition to a hardware store. If you do it right there is ok money in used guns, new is all about volume and pricing. I know several folks around me that have FFL's as a side business and do enough transfers to pay for the license fee, but in this area competition is fierce. It's hard to make money at $25 a transfer and 10% over dealer price.
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I wish more places would sell old used guns, and that would be a cool thing in a local hardware store. Start selling ice cream, hot dogs and old fashioned candies while you're at it! We used to have a gun store around here that had old wood and iron from yesteryear lining every wall, but now it's all "tactical" this and "just order one for you..." that. I like to see how a shotgun points before I buy it... can't do that online.
 
Your cost for most new guns will be more than I can buy from the big guys. People are stupid, lots of stupid people in the retail side of the gun business.
 
It's an open invitation that allows a federal agency into your business.

And it WILL get worse.

Not worth the hassle for me.
 
Some good points raised by others already.

One thing many people don't realize is that the limited production high demand super cool firearms get dealt out to the biggest and best selling stores first. If you don't do much volume, or have much clout with the distributors you aren't going to get the cool in demand guns. A lot of times they will want you to buy a "package" to get the high demand guns. So you have to buy a bunch of boring slow moving guns to get the ones people want.

The shortages and craziness from the coof and fraudy-six election has things way messed up, getting inventory to open up a firearms department in a hardware store would be a challenge.

To the guys looking for old guns, the only real source for things like that are military surplus guns brought in from other countries. Due to laws and regulations in the US the countries selling off their surplus guns, they aren't legal to import, have to be destroyed to be sold, or are too old and limited, making them not worth the price. They haven't made military style bolt guns since the 50's and there just aren't many others out there in the world to import.

My friend owns a local gunshop and is now pretty cynical after all the panics. His best source for decent deals and older rifles is from families selling off collections of deceased enthusiasts. He often gets a better deal, because he is willing to take everything in a collection and save them hassle of dealing with a bunch of cheap bastards individually. The downside is he often gets stuck with undesireable or junk guns. In normal times he just sells them cheap. During the panics they just sell. The advantage is he gets first pick of the cool and rare stuff for his collection. He gets people in the shop trying to sell things and sometimes they are cool.

I wouldn't want to have a ffl open to the general public, if anything I would have one for gunsmithing type work or an 07.
 
rockmup said:
Your cost for most new guns will be more than I can buy from the big guys. People are stupid, lots of stupid people in the retail side of the gun business.
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Yeah, but it's not just guns, dealer pricing on reloading supplies, optics, etc., it all helps. My buddy Jason does gunsmithing, he's the one that did my left side charging handle, and he does a lot of pin&weld jobs and barrel threading as well. I don't think he sells many guns, but suppressors and other stuff he does.
 
gunracer1 said:
I have found that many folks do well on transfers, in and out and paid cash. lots of folks price themselves out of it. 15 or 20 bucks a transfer is easy money to a business that is all ready there.
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No one near me does transfers for $15 or $20 and hasn’t for a long time. It wouldn’t be worth it.
 
Last transferred I had done was $20 bucks.

If I had a FFL that was easy to use and cheap transfer rates I will shop the crap out of that store. My one local places got broke into 2 times in 3 months and stopped carrying guns. Also didn't have email for FFL just fax so my last transfer was out.
 
IEATRKS84 said:
because theyre not. Theyre a waste of time for anyone who likes making money.
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I stopped doing them entirely for that reason.

I made more than enough money doing machine work and coatings, enough I put myself through school doing it. I rarely did even normal basic repairs and refused to clean guns.
 
My local shop gets good pricing. It takes a commitment of $, but there are good buy groups out there to enable the local guy to compete with Cabela's pricing.

They charge 12-15% over cost. They get the volume dealer pricing and factory direct through most of the companies. Some, like Ruger, flat out won't deal and just tell you to call Davidson's or sports south.

They make 30% on optics and ammo.

The 100% on clothes is what keeps the store in business. Only thing that actually turns a steady profit.


He has all his guns out all the time. The only safe they have is for sold nfa items. Building has cameras and security system, pd headquarters is 1 block away, sheriff's office is 5 blocks. Security isn't a worry, and saved him a ton of money in safes and labor to pack it up every night, unpack in the morning. He generally has several hundred guns on display.

Used guns are hard. Most don't trade them in because they can sell it in the parking lot for more than you can give them if you want to make anything.


He got tired of doing transfers. He charges 10% of what you paid. If it's something he can't order and have in a week he'll waive the fee, but he was getting sick of people sending in random guns that he could have sold off his rack, in stock, at the same price. People simply weren't even calling to ask if he had it and how much. Idiots would buy something because "it's on sale" while he had them on the rack for less than their sale price, and now he has another gun to log and customer to wait on pickup.
 
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I’m generally a fan of starting businesses, and I think it would be “fun” to have an SOT, but I’m not sure what the current climate will turn into.

As has been said, if you can‘t get the guns people want and ammo, what are you going to sell? Holsters, lights, and targets? No need to have an FFL. It’s also problematic doing transfers for “friends” and then you end up closing the business down and have to turn all your transfer paperwork over to the ATF.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if the clown Biden is trying to have head the ATF starts cracking down on hobby FFL’s.

On the other hand, there are something like 8 million new gun owners. Many might have just bought a gun and put it in the closet, but other might actually get into it and keep buying stuff. A lot of people don’t like the typical condescending gun shop attitude and might welcome somebody new to the business.
 
gunracer1 said:
I know two guys making damn good money doing cheap transfers. All cash, they get a bunch of business and have no problem spending 5 minutes for 15 bucks.
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Transfers take a lot more than 5 minutes. no one is making ”damn good money” at $15 a transfer.
 
IEATRKS84 said:
Wow what a great business model.
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lmao, love reading your experiences, Certainly glad I didn't do it.

That was part of my decision, how many guns would I have to buy, how many would I have to sell or transfer to make it worthwhile.
It would have been cool to have an FFL but in the end it just doesn't make sense for me.

Last gun I bought online, the seller told me where to pick it up. Gave me a tracking number. When it posted as delivered I walked in, spent a couple minutes at the computer and walked out with my new Gun.

No way applying for an FFL can be easier than that The OP is looking at it as an add on, but sounds like for him it would be more like a free service then ever a money maker.
 
IEATRKS84 said:
Its not "5 mins" for each transfer. Here let me break it down for you:

First, the transferee has to email/call/text you to tell you that they are sending you something. So you respond to that. Some times its a simple "OK" and watch out for the package. About 40% of the time it is someone who JUST CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF A TRANSFER. So you have to explain the process and hold their hand through the process which takes some time to do. This number has gone up the past 2 years.

Second, the transferor has to have a solid system down for getting stuff out the door. I'd say about 60% of the stuff being sent you will be from a big box store so its just a simple wait and watch out for the package. 40% of them are from FUCKING RETARDS who either dont accept pdf copies of FFLs, or require "WET INK SIGNED ONLY" copies (!!!!!!!!) or ONLY MOTHER FUCKING ACCEPT FAXES OF SIGNED FFLS!!!! DO YOU KNOW HOW TO SEND A FAX TODAY???? Ive had more than a few times ive given up and refused to transfer due to a shitty outgoing FFL. Thats usually after ive spent an hour trying to navigate whatever fucked up system they have.

THIRD (You notice were not even to your "5 mins" part yet?) part is the shipping and receiving. Imagine sending out your FFL on monday, then receive a call/text/email tuesday, wednesday, thursday, and friday from the customer asking have you seen the package? OR customer gets the tracking info too and 3 MINUTES AND 36 SECONDS FROM IT ARRIVING ON YOUR DOORSTEP HES KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR READY TO DO THE TRANSFER!! (ive had this happen quite a few times) More often than not i just get berated once the package arrives about when they can come by. Id say about 40% are cool and calm about whens a good time to pick up. You still have to physically pick up the package and log in. I hope you have a stay at home wife ti sign for all these packages (because every firearm package requires a signature).

Fourth, the actual process of filling out the forms. Notice, this person is most likely sitting at your kitchen table. A person. so of course there is small talk and such. Also notice "kitchen table", so is it dinner time at your house? Nope, not right then. Most people have some small talk, fill the forms out, get approved and leave. But a much-more-than-im-comfortable-with-percentage WANT TO TALK FOR FUCKING EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR. SHUT THE FUCK AND LEAVE YOU FUCK STICK. GIM ME MAH MONEY AND LEAVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a neighbor one time talk to me for an HOUR AND A HALF one time. I kept saying "yup, i gotta go! Yup i gotta go!" AND HE WOULDNT SHUT THE FUCK UP!!

Fifth, an finally, the approval process. A small number of states make this very easy with CCW permits exempting NCIS BGC requirements. If youre in one of those states, great, good for you. Makes the job just a little easier. Most states either conform to the national system or have their own instate system. The in state systems are better usually. I know in VA it was better, as in less delays and quicker turn around on delays. But, EVEN THEN, i got a solid 50% delay on all BGC's. Fifty. Percent. So what do you do with the person in the mean time? Almost all delays in VA lasted around 15 minutes as they checked your SSN. Send them home and go back to step #3? Nope, you let them stay, since this requires the least amount of time over all. so now you get to chit chit with someone you may or may not know, or with someone you may or may not like for 15-20 minutes. I hope yall have lots to talk about. Cuse it gets fucking awkward sometimes. Then, the approval comes, sign the form, please leave.

AND THEN THE GREAT PAY OFF COMES!!! HERE COMES THAT GREASY $20 BILL OUT OF THEIR WALLET. OH WAIT THEY DONT HAVE A $20, THEY HAVE A $100, DO YOU HAVE CHANGE? NO CHANGE? WELL I CAN JUST COME BACK BY THIS WEEKEND AND DROP OF THE $20............................................




So, now that ive written it out, lets analyze. At my job i bill out at $285 an hour. Best case scenario, everything goes right 5 minutes step #1, 5 minutes step #2, 5 minutes step #3, 5ish minutes step #4 and 5 minutes step #5. This is best case, again. 20 minutes of my time. Thats $57 dollars and i get $20. Wow what a great business model.
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what a great salesman, just love your public. I'm thinking you need a job in a corner somewhere.
he has a brick and mortar store, with regular hours. we are not talking about a business, just supplementing his.
 
gunracer1 said:
what a great salesman, just love your public. I'm thinking you need a job in a corner somewhere.
he has a brick and mortar store, with regular hours. we are not talking about a business, just supplementing his.
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He is speaking from experience. You are speaking from your posterior orifice.
 
gunracer1 said:
what a great salesman, just love your public. I'm thinking you need a job in a corner somewhere.
he has a brick and mortar store, with regular hours. we are not talking about a business, just supplementing his.
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Substitute kitchen table with hardware counter, where people who are trying to spend money, are lining up, needing attention, not getting serviced, etc.

It's the same problems.

You took staff from making money, to servicing a product quickly becoming a lost leader.
 
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The local places that used to do free transfers stopped last year. Between volume and the number of people not knowing how it worked they got fed up. I still have a nearby pawn shop that does them for $10.

Also a big part of the free transfers was you never walked out emply handed. Pretty much everyone would end up buying a case or mags or ammo. But when the shop was curbside only and sold out there was nothing to upsell.

I feel its common courtesy to call the shop on anything standard production and ask if they can price match. If its rare or special just buy it. Knew a guy that ordered a pile of poverty pony lowers and then found the shop that transferred them had lower price ones sitting on the shelf when he went to pick up
 
A decade ago I became aware of a sleepy little gun store with minimal sales, lots of freeze dried food, and jeep parts filling up the back room. The employee was a buddy, I asked him what's up, it's basically the owners toy store.

Makes sense. Lots of guys spend $20k, 50k 100k in after tax money on guns, ammo, freeze dried food and jeep parts storage. He opens up a little shit hole shop, maybe makes a tiny profit, sells freeze dried food and ammo, spends the day with the gf and tells the wife he's at work, and if shit ever hits the fan, he shuts the doors and sits on his personal supply of rotated ammo and freeze dried food.

I guess if you see value in keeping a shtf stockpile, it could add to the "pro" column.

Also in another thread you'd mentioned some new hardware store competition in town, could be what you need to keep foot traffic.
 
Don't forget the guy that calls On Monday at 3:36 pm telling you that Fedex said they delivered it at 3:35 pm and wants to know why you haven't called him. He wants to come get it today but doesn't get off until 6pm and he knows that you close at 5pm. Now he's pissed because you tell him you close at 5 pm so unless he can get there by 4 pm he'll need to wait until Saturday. But wait, theres more !
He actually shows up at 4:50 pm on Friday because he left work early so you stay late to get rid of this jack wagon and make a mental note to refuse anything from him in the future but wait ........theres more. He gets delayed, you tell him he has to wait for them to call back or 3 days. He CALLS YOU EVERY SINGLE DAY wanting to know if they called, even though you told him several times that you would call him as soon as you hear from the BATFE. Not to mention the attitude that comes with it.

5 min. ? The only people that think that are the ones who either have never done it or do not track their time honestly. Fuck that
 
grumpy356 said:
Substitute kitchen table with hardware counter, where people who are trying to spend money, are lining up, needing attention, not getting serviced, etc.

It's the same problems.

You took staff from making money, to servicing a product quickly becoming a lost leader.
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Maybe I'm the only one but I rarely shop at stores that are not transfer friendly. I go out of my way to hit those places up first for anything I'm looking for. There are several PIA places and can't tell you the last time I was in their store.

50% of the idiots at the counters are just window lickers anyways. :flipoff2:

rockmup said:
Don't forget the guy that calls On Monday at 3:36 pm telling you that Fedex said they delivered it at 3:35 pm and wants to know why you haven't called him. He wants to come get it today but doesn't get off until 6pm and he knows that you close at 5pm. Now he's pissed because you tell him you close at 5 pm so unless he can get there by 4 pm he'll need to wait until Saturday. But wait, theres more !
He actually shows up at 4:50 pm on Friday because he left work early so you stay late to get rid of this jack wagon and make a mental note to refuse anything from him in the future but wait ........theres more. He gets delayed, you tell him he has to wait for them to call back or 3 days. He CALLS YOU EVERY SINGLE DAY wanting to know if they called, even though you told him several times that you would call him as soon as you hear from the BATFE. Not to mention the attitude that comes with it.

5 min. ? The only people that think that are the ones who either have never done it or do not track their time honestly. Fuck that
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Yeah there are always plenty of retards to ruin the experience. I know the last time I did a transfer it was all jacked up. Partly because it's a side business for the guy and I get that. But he's not exactly customer friendly either. I like to verify and double check everything, so he doesn't know where it's at, he's out of town, oh this day will work then cancels cause he forgot he's doing xyz. And then I always have the added headache f transferring to an out of state license but have an instate CCW permit.

It certainly is a pain and time consuming but I truly appreciate the places that are will to do it and support them the best that I can.
 
Weasel said:
Maybe I'm the only one but I rarely shop at stores that are not transfer friendly. I go out of my way to hit those places up first for anything I'm looking for. There are several PIA places and can't tell you the last time I was in their store.

50% of the idiots at the counters are just window lickers anyways. :flipoff2:



Yeah there are always plenty of retards to ruin the experience. I know the last time I did a transfer it was all jacked up. Partly because it's a side business for the guy and I get that. But he's not exactly customer friendly either. I like to verify and double check everything, so he doesn't know where it's at, he's out of town, oh this day will work then cancels cause he forgot he's doing xyz. And then I always have the added headache f transferring to an out of state license but have an instate CCW permit.

It certainly is a pain and time consuming but I truly appreciate the places that are will to do it and support them the best that I can.
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Understood.
You're just one guy looking at the FFL, Imagine 10 of the ones I described a month on top of all the ones in between. If you do the math, you're not making much at all.
I don't even get out of bed for less than 50.00 an hr in real life, why the fuck would I do that ? lol
 
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