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Tesla - Fuck the Haters

as if that's even a real mandate and not just a bunch of hot air
Guess we'll find out in the next few years. I hope it's all hot air like the previous attempts, but it is going to divert a whole bunch 9f good r and d funds in the mean time
 
I'm really not disagreeing with you here on many of your points. Except this one. I don't know if a Tesla holds the equivalent of 6 gallons or not. But of a 30 gallon fuel tank, only about 10 gallons will be turned into usable energy. The rest of it is turned to waste heat. So, a battery only needs to hold the equivalent energy of 10 gallons plus the waste heat created while discharging. I don't know how much that is, but an electric motor is usually over 90% efficient compared to an ICE's ~30% rating. So, maybe the target for the electric vehicle is 11 gallons equivalent or something.


Edit--also, in an ideal world, the point of the electric car thing will be to replace as many ICE's as readily feasible. Not force everything. We all focus on the times it won't work, rather than the majority of the cases where it will work. I'd happily swap my commuter car for an electric one, just not willing to buy one yet.
huh?
yes it will. Not only will it, if its a telsa, it'll put your eyeballs on the back of your cranium while it does it.
Be cutting the range very very close .

The battery drops very quickly going up steep mountains .

Plus there’s a limit on how fast you can drive around a mountain curve , especially with lots of Florida idiots , or Florodiots as we like to call them , poking along .

My Ford expedition trundles along the mountain roads just fine .
And it cost $3,500

And unlike Tesla Ford will sell me parts and Ford won’t lock the fuel tank if it gets wrecked .

Oh and if electric cars are so much better than gas ones , why is the fed and state government FORCING consumers to buy them ?

Didn’t all the commie liberal democrats states all decree that a certain number of electric cars WILL be sold in their states after a certain date ?

Screw the commie liberal democrats .
Thinking they can force me to buy a golf cart that costs as much as my house .

I will go drive my 65 falcon or 73 Bronco just to pollute the air .
 
as if that's even a real mandate and not just a bunch of hot air
Appears real to me
Lots of places all over the world banning gas cars

If the electrics are sooooo much better why would banning the gas cars be a thing for the liberals?

Same as the commiefornia mandate to get the older diesel trucks off the road

Stroke of the pen and boom , it’s done .

The truckers should have just gone on strike and parked their rigs until the democrats removed that law .
 
HD trucks make the most sense in my mind. Standardize a hot swapable battery pack and charge them up at Loves or Flying T stations. You eliminate the ICE, the trans, driveshafts, differential which frees up a lot of space for a big or multiple battery packs. Don't get me wrong, battery technology still has a long way to go as far as service life, charge density and eco friendliness, but I think the graphene technology is progressing.
 
We have not had a blackout here for as long as I have been alive. Thats a long time. Very limited areas have only very recently had their power shut off due to high winds coupled with dry air, and billion dollar lawsuits. But blackouts, no. I dont recall the details of the energy crunch that got Grey Davis removed a sgovernor but I think that was grid manipulation. Where I was there was never a blackout. Shit that was 30 years ago . . .. . I dont want to defend California's power grid and infrastrucure, and insane do-good green movement but I will correct misinformation when I see it. I dont think a significant source of CA electricity is outsourced coal. I would hazard a guess at less than 15%. Maybe someone can correct me. Also guess is that Number one is Natural gas.

isn't power being shut off... a black out? :confused:
 
HD trucks make the most sense in my mind. Standardize a hot swapable battery pack and charge them up at Loves or Flying T stations. You eliminate the ICE, the trans, driveshafts, differential which frees up a lot of space for a big or multiple battery packs. Don't get me wrong, battery technology still has a long way to go as far as service life, charge density and eco friendliness, but I think the graphene technology is progressing.

You have any idea the size of storage solution required for hot swapping batteries vs storing fuel under ground?
 
isn't power being shut off... a black out? :confused:
I was in Sacramento at the time. We never had the power shut off. It was a long time ago, almost pre web. I dont think there were widespread blackouts statewide. Think Chip out, especially Los Angeles, Compton etc. They would have burned. Agreed ? Maybe because northern CA is mostly PG&E, we had SMUD, and were not part of the whole debacle. But back to Elon and Tesla, not really a problem here. CA DOES get a significant amount of electricity from out of state, and that is from Natural gas. I personally dont equate natural gas on the same level as burning coal.
 
I was in Sacramento at the time. We never had the power shut off. It was a long time ago, almost pre web. I dont think there were widespread blackouts statewide. Think Chip out, especially Los Angeles, Compton etc. They would have burned. Agreed ? Maybe because northern CA is mostly PG&E, we had SMUD, and were not part of the whole debacle. But back to Elon and Tesla, not really a problem here. CA DOES get a significant amount of electricity from out of state, and that is from Natural gas. I personally dont equate natural gas on the same level as burning coal.
it wasn't a long long time ago.


August 10 blackout[edit]​

On August 10, 1996, the western electric grid experienced another massive blackout.[4]

This power outage affected customers in seven western US states, two Canadian provinces, and Baja California, Mexico. Approximately 7.5 million customers lost power for periods ranging from several minutes to six hours. The outage stretched from Canada to New Mexico and knocked out power to 4 million customers amid a triple-digit heat wave.

At 2:06 p.m., the Big Eddy-Ostrander line flashed and grounded to a tree. At 2:52 p.m., the John Day–Marion line (also owned by BPA) flashed to a tree. Due to a circuit breaker being out of service, this also took the Marion–Lane line out of operation. At 3:42 p.m., the Keeler–Allston line arced and grounded to a tree near Hillsboro, Oregon, west of Portland. It was the fourth power line in Oregon to fail in less than two hours. Five minutes later, at 3:47 p.m., the 230 kV Ross–Lexington line (also owned by Bonneville Power Administration) flashed and grounded to a tree near Vancouver, Washington, across the Columbia River from the Portland/Hillsboro area. This started a small fire. One minute later, at 3:48 p.m., the 13 turbines at McNary Dam, on the Columbia about 190 miles upstream from Portland, tripped off line.[5]

Within a few seconds, several dozen lines had opened across the Interconnection, and more than a dozen generating units went offline, leaving Oregon disconnected from California and Northern California disconnected from Southern California. High load and demand coupled with inadequate tree-trimming practices, improper system operation, and out of service equipment, contributed to the severity of the disturbance.[
 
Thanks Sting. That's pretty much it. Caused by wires grounding out and then resultant reactions. Several minutes to several hours. Not really a big deal where I was. I do recall thinking why the fuck is it so hard to accurately report news and disseminate accurate information ? And The Governor, A combat veteran was recalled over this ? Huh ? Never understood any of it. I was still a Sierra Club liberal at that time. Soon to change though and never look back.

Swapping auto batteries was discussed at lenght on another forum and the general consensus among the advocates and champions of E-vehicles is that it is impractical. Hell, 1/2 the chargers at the CT yard where I last worked had been ruined by the Engineers wanking on them. :laughing: Fact :homer:
 
it wasn't a long long time ago.


August 10 blackout[edit]​

On August 10, 1996, the western electric grid experienced another massive blackout.[4]

This power outage affected customers in seven western US states, two Canadian provinces, and Baja California, Mexico. Approximately 7.5 million customers lost power for periods ranging from several minutes to six hours. The outage stretched from Canada to New Mexico and knocked out power to 4 million customers amid a triple-digit heat wave.

At 2:06 p.m., the Big Eddy-Ostrander line flashed and grounded to a tree. At 2:52 p.m., the John Day–Marion line (also owned by BPA) flashed to a tree. Due to a circuit breaker being out of service, this also took the Marion–Lane line out of operation. At 3:42 p.m., the Keeler–Allston line arced and grounded to a tree near Hillsboro, Oregon, west of Portland. It was the fourth power line in Oregon to fail in less than two hours. Five minutes later, at 3:47 p.m., the 230 kV Ross–Lexington line (also owned by Bonneville Power Administration) flashed and grounded to a tree near Vancouver, Washington, across the Columbia River from the Portland/Hillsboro area. This started a small fire. One minute later, at 3:48 p.m., the 13 turbines at McNary Dam, on the Columbia about 190 miles upstream from Portland, tripped off line.[5]

Within a few seconds, several dozen lines had opened across the Interconnection, and more than a dozen generating units went offline, leaving Oregon disconnected from California and Northern California disconnected from Southern California. High load and demand coupled with inadequate tree-trimming practices, improper system operation, and out of service equipment, contributed to the severity of the disturbance.[
I was in a gig at The Mirage when that happened. The big-ass generators came on and we kept on truckin. The casino floor had power, (nach), but the restaurants, guest rooms and back-of-house did not. Hundreds of thousands of $ worth of food had to be thrown out.
 
I was in a gig at The Mirage when that happened. The big-ass generators came on and we kept on truckin. The casino floor had power, (nach), but the restaurants, guest rooms and back-of-house did not. Hundreds of thousands of $ worth of food had to be thrown out.
At work we do a lot of nights, so we eat out often. ( more with the guys than the wife) So if there is a power outage of any length of time me and the work guys stay clear of any restaurant involved in the outage for a week or two.
You know damn well some min wage manager is saying all the suspect food is good.
 
I was in Sacramento at the time. We never had the power shut off. It was a long time ago, almost pre web. I dont think there were widespread blackouts statewide. Think Chip out, especially Los Angeles, Compton etc. They would have burned. Agreed ? Maybe because northern CA is mostly PG&E, we had SMUD, and were not part of the whole debacle. But back to Elon and Tesla, not really a problem here. CA DOES get a significant amount of electricity from out of state, and that is from Natural gas. I personally dont equate natural gas on the same level as burning coal.
So I guess you can tell what power source the power on your lines came from? I can tell you for a fact that in the summer, coal plants supply a massive amount of power to CA. And what is the difference in your mind with natural gas? I'd love to hear why it's better ?
 
You have any idea the size of storage solution required for hot swapping batteries vs storing fuel under ground?
plus they're most dangerous while being charged.
set a stack of batteries on fire and that shit's gonna burn for days.
see big austrailian battery fire recently.
So I guess you can tell what power source the power on your lines came from? I can tell you for a fact that in the summer, coal plants supply a massive amount of power to CA. And what is the difference in your mind with natural gas? I'd love to hear why it's better ?
well if you believe the californian gubermints they figure out where it all comes from.
but natiural gas releases about half the CO2 per KWH as coal, so it is better, but it's still not clean.
cleaner I suppose is the right word.
 
plus they're most dangerous while being charged.
set a stack of batteries on fire and that shit's gonna burn for days.
see big austrailian battery fire recently.

well if you believe the californian gubermints they figure out where it all comes from.
but natiural gas releases about half the CO2 per KWH as coal, so it is better, but it's still not clean.
cleaner I suppose is the right word.
The comparison might need to be adjusted to account for different BTUs per unit, and overall plant efficiency - I believe that gas co-generation is very fuel-intense.
 
The comparison might need to be adjusted to account for different BTUs per unit, and overall plant efficiency - I believe that gas co-generation is very fuel-intense.
It's per KWH, which means that no matter how much gas you feed the generator coal makes more CO2 than NG.
fuel KWH Tons of CO2
Coal947,891 9521,0492.21
Natural gas1,358,047 560 6170.91
Petroleum15,471 15 172.13
 
Why is that an idiotic statement ?

I don’t drag race my way to work on my daily commute

All anyone talks about is how fast the Tesla is 0-60

But I do regularly have 200 mile trips
Last week I drove 250 miles to a job site

Mrs roundhouse drove three hours one way to visit a family member for the weekend ,

The weekend before that we drove six hours one way, to see a friend .

I’m just not going to pay $70k for a car that will do 189 miles and need a recharge ,
Do they have fast charges in podunk Mississippi ?
Is there a fast charger in Franklin NC?
No they do not , but there is a gas station every few miles with no waiting .

Why would anyone pay $70k for a car with limited range and from a company that will not sell repair parts ?
Two years ago we bought a one owner 89k mile 2006 4wd Ford expedition for $3,500
Sure it guzzles gas , but it will go 400 miles on a tank , that takes 6 minutes to refill. Will carry 8 passengers and tow several thousand pounds .

Plus , repair parts are easily available , even from the manufacturer .
If I need a fender or any other part , I like Tesla, Ford will sell it to me .

, Ford doesn’t have a team of people scouring the internet auction sites looking for the VINs of wrecked Ford’s so they can lock me out of ever being able to refuel it .

Tesla has teams of people who hunt down the VINs of wrecked Tesla’s so they can lock them out of the charger network .
And they refuse to sell parts to repair the wrecked ones .

Fuck them . I will never ever have a Tesla .
If by some scientific miracle someone develops a electric car that doesn’t cost any more than a normal car , has a 300 miles range and can be recharged in minutes at 58,000 locations , I might be interested when it’s been on the market for 6 years and I can get a deal on a used one . Except by then the batteries made from minerals extracted by slaves in third world countries will need to be replaced , which will cost more than the value of the car .

We have owned several Volkswagens with the turbo diesel .
Never paid more than $3000 for a good used one , gets 44 mpg ever tank and doesn’t depreciate ,

Remind me again why I would pay $70k for a golf cart that the manufacturer refuses to sell repair parts for ?

In 2002 I paid $99k for the house I’m still living in .
You think I’m ever gonna pay $50-75k for a electric golf cart CAR ?

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So I guess you can tell what power source the power on your lines came from? I can tell you for a fact that in the summer, coal plants supply a massive amount of power to CA. And what is the difference in your mind with natural gas? I'd love to hear why it's better ?

What the fuck , how do you reply to this ???

Third time, I think

 
How much does it cost to chage a tesla at one of these stations? Anyone ever figure out how much power it takes to charge at home?
 
Now if they could make a 4wd pickup that can tow and drive 400 miles and recharge in 20 minutes .
That will impress me , but they can’t and they will never ever be able to do it .

I'm not on board with electric cars/trucks right now either, but I think you are wrong to state 'Never ever be able to do it'. The electric F150 is a LONG way off from being capable of towing a 5k lb Jeep on a 2-3k lb trailer 3-5 hrs out of town for a weekend of wheeling, but it will happen one day. It might be the year 2030 or 2035 though. From what I remember reading, the REALISTIC range of the electric F150 towing a heavy load is probably 100-125 miles. I'm going to want to see a 500+ mile range at max towing load before I am interested.
 
I'm not on board with electric cars/trucks right now either, but I think you are wrong to state 'Never ever be able to do it'. The electric F150 is a LONG way off from being capable of towing a 5k lb Jeep on a 2-3k lb trailer 3-5 hrs out of town for a weekend of wheeling, but it will happen one day. It might be the year 2030 or 2035 though. From what I remember reading, the REALISTIC range of the electric F150 towing a heavy load is probably 100-125 miles. I'm going to want to see a 500+ mile range at max towing load before I am interested.
That's where I'm at. We're not there yet and so I won't buy an electric car, but I'm glad there are people willing to pay lots of money to be the guinea pigs and lay the groundwork for future advances. If some rich guy wants to talk about how great his tesla is? Fine. It's not for me but I'll smile and nod and be happy his money is funding the R&D and not mine.
 
I'm not on board with electric cars/trucks right now either, but I think you are wrong to state 'Never ever be able to do it'. The electric F150 is a LONG way off from being capable of towing a 5k lb Jeep on a 2-3k lb trailer 3-5 hrs out of town for a weekend of wheeling, but it will happen one day. It might be the year 2030 or 2035 though. From what I remember reading, the REALISTIC range of the electric F150 towing a heavy load is probably 100-125 miles. I'm going to want to see a 500+ mile range at max towing load before I am interested.

I have never owned a car, any car , with a range of even close to 500 miles. 325 - 375 with a 50 mile buffer at best. I also never accepted the Dozer 7,000 lb diesel PU towin a trailer queen all over the place. But not everyone can live 75 minutes from the Loon Lake Trailhead.

Long Live Gatekeeper :flipoff2:
 
I have never owned a car, any car , with a range of even close to 500 miles. 325 - 375 with a 50 mile buffer at best. I also never accepted the Dozer 7,000 lb diesel PU towin a trailer queen all over the place. But not everyone can live 75 minutes from the Loon Lake Trailhead.

Long Live Gatekeeper :flipoff2:
Trailer queens are pretty damn nice. You only have to get it back to the trailhead rather than home.
 
I have never owned a car, any car , with a range of even close to 500 miles. 325 - 375 with a 50 mile buffer at best. I also never accepted the Dozer 7,000 lb diesel PU towin a trailer queen all over the place. But not everyone can live 75 minutes from the Loon Lake Trailhead.

Long Live Gatekeeper :flipoff2:
That is my minimum requirement to buy an electric truck. Until then I will continue to drive a diesel.
 
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