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Tell me about AGM batteries

ToyodaAddict1980

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Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Member Number
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126
I need a new battery for my 1980 Toyota ( 1990 22RE). I was looking at this Super Start AGM $210 on sale. https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...art-platinum-battery-group-size-34/ssbq/34plt
I have never used an AGM battery but know that alot of you do, and recommend them.
While looking into it, I fell into a rabbit hole of people saying older charging systems are not designed for AGM and are not up to the task of keeping them properly/fully charged. Saying they will fail prematurely because of this and blah blah blah. So what can you guys tell me about this? Will the AGM perform/last in my truck or should I just go with another costco interstate and save $100? I posted this on Marlins forum and I'm posting here too, I need some quick answers. Thanks
 
If you use your rig regularly and keep your battery charged it could be a benefit. If you have lights, stereo and a winch it might be even better for you. The agm’s are better with a sustained load. Ever check out anti gravity batteries? They’re speedy as hell but have some pretty awesome technology as in shutting the battery off when the voltage gets to low, you can turn it on and off with a key fob, and they’re a fraction of the weight.
 
There are special chargers for AGM, but I have them in all my vehicles and they work better than conventional lead acid. (Most of my shit is antique, so no special chargers)
 
Not sure if im just lucky where i live but we have a local battery wholesaler thats about half price on regular lead acid batteries and does pretty good on agm and hd batteries too. Www.powerstridebattery.com. Only trouble we have had with agm is getting one thats been on the shelf too long. Their online pricing looks high, but if theres a local spot like it near you might be worth a call.
 
There's this feature on the site called search. You'll find all kinds of threads on batteries, including AGM. Good luck... :beer:
 
I run AGM in all my old iron. Little pricier, but no acid to spill and rust out the battery tray. I do keep them on tenders when not driven for months at a time.

As for longevity, I have a pair of Fleet Farm AGMs from 2016 in my 84 that are doing fine.
 
got a 8+ year old diehard p4 agm in my 92 toyota. Still going strong. Worth it if you need it.

Ive even run my house off it with a power inverter a few times. Still starts up every time.
 
There's this feature on the site called search. You'll find all kinds of threads on batteries, including AGM. Good luck... :beer:
That's my problem I did to much searching and ran into a lot conflicting reports. Not a lot of technical info here but found a lot of stuff like this elsewhere.




"In an earlier article, we discussed how well different types of line-input chargers are suited for charging AGM batteries. The conclusion was that what is needed is a smart charger – preferably one with a dedicated AGM mode.
But what happens if you put an AGM battery into your car? There the battery is not charged from line power, but by the alternator. Can the car alternators charge AGM batteries?
In this short post, I will try to shed some light on the issue. In a nutshell, the alternator-based charging systems in most cars are intended for flooded lead-acid batteries, and will not work optimally with AGM batteries. With the default charging profile, these systems risk both over- and under-charging an AGM battery, which is much more sensitive to charge voltages and staging. The charge controllers in newer vehicles may sometimes be reprogrammed to work with an AGM battery.
We’re next going to look at the important job of the regulator, the exact problems of charging AGM batteries with the alternator, and when a car charging system may be compatible with AGM batteries.

Regulator is key
Car battery charging is actually controlled by a combination of the alternator and a regulator. The regulator’s task is to cap the output voltage of the alternator to a safe level both to prevent damage to car electronics and to avoid overcharging the battery during long high-RPM drives.
The positioning of the regulator varies: in some cars, the regulator may be integrated into the alternator and be inside its casing; in others, it may be an external component. In newer car models, the regulator is usually incorporated into the engine control unit (ECU) and has more advanced functionality.
Regardless of the position, it is the regulator or charge controller that sets the charging voltages, limits the charging current, and in more advanced systems, controls the charge staging.

Problem 1: Low absorption voltage
Many regulators have too low output voltage to properly charge an AGM battery. Typical regulator setpoints are 13.5V to 14.4V. These voltage levels are enough for most of the bulk charge stage, but a bit too low for a proper absorption charge, which would take a voltage between 14.2V and 14.9V depending on the temperature and the battery model. For more info, see my articles on AGM charge staging and voltages.
On a typical car charging system, an AGM battery will therefore charge slow, and never quite to 100%. This will cause fast capacity fade and lead to a short battery life.

Problem 2: No float stage
An another shortcoming of conventional alternator & regulator car charging systems is the lack of float charge stage.
For best performance and longest battery life, AGM batteries should be charged full with a high absorption voltage between 14.2…14.9V, with the exact voltage and time depending on temperature and model (see previous article).
After this, the charging voltage should absolutely be dropped to a lower level to prevent overcharging. This lower voltage stage is called float charge, and has recommended voltages between 13.5…13.8V, again depending on temperature and battery model (details in previous article).
This drop to float stage is missing altogether in many older car charging systems. If an AGM battery is installed to such a car, there is a high risk of battery overcharging on long drives.

No drop-in compatibility
We’ve seen that the output voltage of car regulators is often an unhappy medium for AGM batteries – too low for absorption, too high for float. Low regulator voltages around 13.5V are pretty good for floating AGMs, but will never charge them full. The higher regulator outputs of 14.4V are still a bit low for proper absorption voltage, but much too high for float.
Because of the mentioned issues, an AGM battery is not a general drop-in replacement for a conventional flooded-cell lead-acid automotive battery.
The issues you face if you substitute a flooded unit for an AGM depend on the car model and your use profile. In some happy cases, a combination of short typical journeys and a high voltage setting mean that the battery will work just fine.
In others, the over- or undercharging will lead to fast capacity fade, and you need to replace the battery prematurely.
Some newer vehicles may be smart enough to automatically detect the new battery type through load testing and adjust charging accordingly. In this case, you will face no issues – except for the possible warning messages of unauthorized battery change from the on-board computer.

Compatibility by reprogramming
In many new vehicles with an engine control unit (ECU), the battery charge profile is a matter of charge controller programming. Such cars may allow you to swap the original flooded-cell lead acid battery for an AGM model if the charge controller settings are updated accordingly.
Before purchasing an AGM battery for your car, make sure that your car’s charging system is compatible with AGM batteries, and the ECU is appropriately programmed to recognize the battery type. As so many other things in modern cars, this is something you will likely have to leave to an authorized service center.

Flooded lead-acid more tolerant
Some claim that AGM batteries actually are a drop-in replacement for flooded lead-acid units in car applications, because the optimal charging voltages for the two battery types are not all that different.
There is some truth to this claim: the optimal absorption and float voltages of flooded lead-acid and AGM batteries are indeed within 0.2V or so: typical values are 14.7V/13.6V for AGM and 14.5V/13.4V for flooded.
However, this claim misses an important point: an AGM battery is much more prone to both under- and overcharging than a regular flooded lead-acid battery. Specifically:
AGMs suffer much more from insufficient absorption charge
AGMs are more sensitive to overcharging
So while the crude charging profile of a car alternator & regulator combination is not really optimal for either battery type, AGMs suffer much more from the deficiencies."

 
Thanks for the input guys.
I'm going to stick with a standard battery. I'll save $100. I don't really need an agm, lack of corrosion was my main interest. I was looking at a budget one anyway. Sale is over. Maybe I'll know more about it and give one a try next time.
 
That's my problem I did to much searching and ran into a lot conflicting reports. Not a lot of technical info here but found a lot of stuff like this elsewhere.




"In an earlier article, we discussed how well different types of line-input chargers are suited for charging AGM batteries. The conclusion was that what is needed is a smart charger – preferably one with a dedicated AGM mode.
But what happens if you put an AGM battery into your car? There the battery is not charged from line power, but by the alternator. Can the car alternators charge AGM batteries?
In this short post, I will try to shed some light on the issue. In a nutshell, the alternator-based charging systems in most cars are intended for flooded lead-acid batteries, and will not work optimally with AGM batteries. With the default charging profile, these systems risk both over- and under-charging an AGM battery, which is much more sensitive to charge voltages and staging. The charge controllers in newer vehicles may sometimes be reprogrammed to work with an AGM battery.
We’re next going to look at the important job of the regulator, the exact problems of charging AGM batteries with the alternator, and when a car charging system may be compatible with AGM batteries.

Regulator is key
Car battery charging is actually controlled by a combination of the alternator and a regulator. The regulator’s task is to cap the output voltage of the alternator to a safe level both to prevent damage to car electronics and to avoid overcharging the battery during long high-RPM drives.
The positioning of the regulator varies: in some cars, the regulator may be integrated into the alternator and be inside its casing; in others, it may be an external component. In newer car models, the regulator is usually incorporated into the engine control unit (ECU) and has more advanced functionality.
Regardless of the position, it is the regulator or charge controller that sets the charging voltages, limits the charging current, and in more advanced systems, controls the charge staging.

Problem 1: Low absorption voltage
Many regulators have too low output voltage to properly charge an AGM battery. Typical regulator setpoints are 13.5V to 14.4V. These voltage levels are enough for most of the bulk charge stage, but a bit too low for a proper absorption charge, which would take a voltage between 14.2V and 14.9V depending on the temperature and the battery model. For more info, see my articles on AGM charge staging and voltages.
On a typical car charging system, an AGM battery will therefore charge slow, and never quite to 100%. This will cause fast capacity fade and lead to a short battery life.

Problem 2: No float stage
An another shortcoming of conventional alternator & regulator car charging systems is the lack of float charge stage.
For best performance and longest battery life, AGM batteries should be charged full with a high absorption voltage between 14.2…14.9V, with the exact voltage and time depending on temperature and model (see previous article).
After this, the charging voltage should absolutely be dropped to a lower level to prevent overcharging. This lower voltage stage is called float charge, and has recommended voltages between 13.5…13.8V, again depending on temperature and battery model (details in previous article).
This drop to float stage is missing altogether in many older car charging systems. If an AGM battery is installed to such a car, there is a high risk of battery overcharging on long drives.

No drop-in compatibility
We’ve seen that the output voltage of car regulators is often an unhappy medium for AGM batteries – too low for absorption, too high for float. Low regulator voltages around 13.5V are pretty good for floating AGMs, but will never charge them full. The higher regulator outputs of 14.4V are still a bit low for proper absorption voltage, but much too high for float.
Because of the mentioned issues, an AGM battery is not a general drop-in replacement for a conventional flooded-cell lead-acid automotive battery.
The issues you face if you substitute a flooded unit for an AGM depend on the car model and your use profile. In some happy cases, a combination of short typical journeys and a high voltage setting mean that the battery will work just fine.
In others, the over- or undercharging will lead to fast capacity fade, and you need to replace the battery prematurely.
Some newer vehicles may be smart enough to automatically detect the new battery type through load testing and adjust charging accordingly. In this case, you will face no issues – except for the possible warning messages of unauthorized battery change from the on-board computer.

Compatibility by reprogramming
In many new vehicles with an engine control unit (ECU), the battery charge profile is a matter of charge controller programming. Such cars may allow you to swap the original flooded-cell lead acid battery for an AGM model if the charge controller settings are updated accordingly.
Before purchasing an AGM battery for your car, make sure that your car’s charging system is compatible with AGM batteries, and the ECU is appropriately programmed to recognize the battery type. As so many other things in modern cars, this is something you will likely have to leave to an authorized service center.

Flooded lead-acid more tolerant
Some claim that AGM batteries actually are a drop-in replacement for flooded lead-acid units in car applications, because the optimal charging voltages for the two battery types are not all that different.
There is some truth to this claim: the optimal absorption and float voltages of flooded lead-acid and AGM batteries are indeed within 0.2V or so: typical values are 14.7V/13.6V for AGM and 14.5V/13.4V for flooded.
However, this claim misses an important point: an AGM battery is much more prone to both under- and overcharging than a regular flooded lead-acid battery. Specifically:
AGMs suffer much more from insufficient absorption charge
AGMs are more sensitive to overcharging
So while the crude charging profile of a car alternator & regulator combination is not really optimal for either battery type, AGMs suffer much more from the deficiencies."


While interesting, I'd have to disagree with the video. While he's correct on the charging of AGM voltages, after watching him remove the battery complaining about the loose terminals and wiring itself, those right there can hinder charging the battery properly. And you can use a voltmeter or code reader that allows for monitoring voltage, among other data, to verify what is happening with your vehicle's charging system.

I have been using AGM batteries exclusively in all my vehicles since around 1999 without issue in vehicles from a 1994 Jeep Cherokee to my current one of 2011 Jeep Wrangler. Anecdotal I'd admit, but still it's my experience. And I don't purchase the parts store specials, I stick with known brands that have excellent reputation, which was Optima before they were made in Mexico (when they starting having more issues with them) and now Odyssey.
Anyway, I see that you have chosen what will work for you. That is always a good thing and good luck. :beer:
 
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