Talk to me about exhaust brakes

[GLTHFJ60]

I made the mistake of driving my buddy's late model cummins ram 3500. I drove it for a quick jaunt unloaded, but on some decent hills, and holy shit does that factory exhaust brake work. Makes me want one for my 6.0/ZF6 F550.

From reading the literature, it seems to be a simple as buying this:

PacBrake PRXB Exhaust Brake Kit 03-07 6.0L Ford Powerstroke C40010 / C40007

Check out the deal on PacBrake PRXB Exhaust Brake Kit 03-07 6.0L Ford Powerstroke C40010 / C40007 at Diesel Power Products

www.dieselpowerproducts.com

Following these instructions:

https://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/L5501.pdf

Then you get ~60psi of exhaust backpressure. Here's where y'all step in.

Do these DIY kits function as well as the newer factory equipped systems? Is it worth the ~$1500 in added braking potential?

TIA.

 

[Otis]

I have the BD vacuum actuated version mounted on my 96 12 valve. It's nice, and I'll never get rid of it but I don't think it's as effective as the late model factory exhaust brakes. Granted, I have a 47RE with lock up torque converter so I bet your 6 speedl would be better.

I lucked out and got it on CL for $400. I'd have to think harder at $1500.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Your 6.0 has a vgt turbo, you can buy a little tuner to use it as an exhaust brake. This is how the newer trucks do it as well (last I read)

Read up on it yourself, I know nothing about them.

I'm curious about the pac brake though, as I have been looking at them for my 7.3.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Your 6.0 has a vgt turbo, you can buy a little tuner to use it as an exhaust brake. This is how the newer trucks do it as well (last I read)

I was reading about them, and it seemed to always work in conjunction with the trans in tow haul mode. Not done with research yet, but I haven't found an example where someone did that with a stick truck.

 

[Stix]

The one on my 16 Ram handshaker was like put you through the windshield strong coming down a hill in 3rd or 4th.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I was reading about them, and it seemed to always work in conjunction with the trans in tow haul mode. Not done with research yet, but I haven't found an example where someone did that with a stick truck.

It's no different, you're restricting the exhaust to slow you down.

My buddy has a tune on his 07 dodge manual, works great.

For optimum efficiency, you need a throttle switch. Off the throttle, it's on, as soon as you touch the pedal it turns off. Then you have a master switch on the shift knob or dash.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

It's no different, you're restricting the exhaust to slow you down.

My buddy has a tune on his 07 dodge manual, works great.

For optimum efficiency, you need a throttle switch. Off the throttle, it's on, as soon as you touch the pedal it turns off. Then you have a master switch on the shift knob or dash.

With an ethrottle though, why would you need a throttle switch, lol.

Will look into it more. Thanks man.

 

[Captain Call]

Had one I put on my early 07 dodge with the standard and it worked as well as any new pickup I've driven/owned.

 

[hooligan shmulligan]

Have an SCT tuner on my 06 6.0 zf6. You can use it to make the turbo an exhaust brake. Works really well ,like tokyo drift ass pucker when you let off the gas on an icey corner. Biggest thing is you have to turn it on and off with the tuner. So I usually turn it off in the winter. The tuner is way cheaper then a exhaust brake and let's you adjust for tire size, ignores the EGR code and has a few canned tunes that work pretty well.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I have an sct actually, and use tunes from Warren diesel. Will find that asafp. When I do ill post the answer here.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Have an SCT tuner on my 06 6.0 zf6. You can use it to make the turbo an exhaust brake. Works really well ,like tokyo drift ass pucker when you let off the gas on an icey corner. Biggest thing is you have to turn it on and off with the tuner. So I usually turn it off in the winter. The tuner is way cheaper then a exhaust brake and let's you adjust for tire size, ignores the EGR code and has a few canned tunes that work pretty well.

Some people reported issues when using it. You ever had an issue? Apparently it's more of an issue with auto trucks than stick trucks.

SCT jake brake BAD idea

www.powerstroke.org

 

[hooligan shmulligan]

Its never tripped a code. Only time it gets fucky is when you have the cruise set and it's building boost and you hit the brake. Its dumps boost and slams the brake on. I usually hit the gas, turn cruise off and then let the brake engage.

 

[hooligan shmulligan]

Just looked at warrens web site. Looks like they program the brake either on or off in the tune. Doesn't look like you can toggle it , like with the canned tunes. But it worth a look to plug it in and see.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

Not sure about the 6.0’s, but the 7.3’s had a warm up valve which was just a butterfly on the exhaust side of the turbo. There was a DIY hack write up to use it as an exhaust brake. IIRC it was a 3 position switch. Center it functioned like normal, up it was activated by the brake switch circuit, which was awesome for towing in traffic. Down it was on regardless of throttle or brake position, which was handy for long grades. I think there were even little LED’s wired in to show which position it was in, it was pretty pimp.

The really nice thing about the ZF-6 was you could make it more powerful by downshifting, the higher the RPM’s the stronger it worked.

It saved me one day when a rear caliper locked up and spit the pad out and I lost brakes. I was able to limp it to a buddy’s house because you could slow it down to 3-4 mph with the exhaust brake and granny gear.

 

[[486]]

the aftermarket adaptations of the vane control maps can be... interesting
especially when you also have a lot of changes on the fueling side
you'll sometimes notice where the vanes are closed much further than they normally would be and can't open back up fast enough so you get massive exhaust pressure spikes when you go from braking to fueling
on my little engines they got hydraulic lifters, and 120psi in the exhaust manifold is enough to float the valves and let the oil pump pump them up, then you get a stall and no compression until they bleed back down, dunno if valves were hitting pistons or not

we don't have any real hills around here so I can't really speak to anything other than fucking around with them for fun

 

[YotaAtieToo]

the aftermarket adaptations of the vane control maps can be... interesting
especially when you also have a lot of changes on the fueling side
you'll sometimes notice where the vanes are closed much further than they normally would be and can't open back up fast enough so you get massive exhaust pressure spikes when you go from braking to fueling
on my little engines they got hydraulic lifters, and 120psi in the exhaust manifold is enough to float the valves and let the oil pump pump them up, then you get a stall and no compression until they bleed back down, dunno if valves were hitting pistons or not

we don't have any real hills around here so I can't really speak to anything other than fucking around with them for fun

My buddy I mentioned keeps blowing exhaust manifolds with his since he put an up graded vg turbo on. I wonder if this could be going on?

 

[pvkj454]

The VGT turbos must put quite a bit of back pressure on the exhaust manifold when in exhaust brake mode. My 09 F750 with the 6.7 Cummins has developed a loud squealing leak when the exhaust brake is in operation. No loss of boost on acceleration.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Other than "just bolt up" what does the pacbrake kit do that something like this doesn't?

OEM new Cummins 3099088 Turbo Diesel Engine Exhaust Brake 5.9 3.9 4b 6b | eBay

What you see in the pictures is what you get, nothing more nothing less.

www.ebay.com

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Other than "just bolt up" what does the pacbrake kit do that something like this doesn't?

OEM new Cummins 3099088 Turbo Diesel Engine Exhaust Brake 5.9 3.9 4b 6b | eBay

What you see in the pictures is what you get, nothing more nothing less.

www.ebay.com

From reading, the pacbrake has a flapper in the butterfly valve to prevent over pressurizarion. It also comes with a compressor, tank, and electronic controls for the whole shebang.

That is pretty cheap though.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

3"? Exhaust brake for antz?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Not sure about the 6.0’s, but the 7.3’s had a warm up valve which was just a butterfly on the exhaust side of the turbo. There was a DIY hack write up to use it as an exhaust brake. IIRC it was a 3 position switch. Center it functioned like normal, up it was activated by the brake switch circuit, which was awesome for towing in traffic. Down it was on regardless of throttle or brake position, which was handy for long grades. I think there were even little LED’s wired in to show which position it was in, it was pretty pimp.

The really nice thing about the ZF-6 was you could make it more powerful by downshifting, the higher the RPM’s the stronger it worked.

It saved me one day when a rear caliper locked up and spit the pad out and I lost brakes. I was able to limp it to a buddy’s house because you could slow it down to 3-4 mph with the exhaust brake and granny gear.

That sounds super easy. Unfortunately, no such warm up valve on the stock turbo on a 6.0. I rebuilt the turbo when I went through my engine like 4 years ago.

That kind of braking power is what I'm looking for though

the aftermarket adaptations of the vane control maps can be... interesting
especially when you also have a lot of changes on the fueling side
you'll sometimes notice where the vanes are closed much further than they normally would be and can't open back up fast enough so you get massive exhaust pressure spikes when you go from braking to fueling
on my little engines they got hydraulic lifters, and 120psi in the exhaust manifold is enough to float the valves and let the oil pump pump them up, then you get a stall and no compression until they bleed back down, dunno if valves were hitting pistons or not

we don't have any real hills around here so I can't really speak to anything other than fucking around with them for fun

Valve float is what some of the people on powerstroke forums were saying is a risk, and apparently why the exhaust brakes try to limit exhaust pressure to ~60# or whatever. Valve float in an interference engine (like most diesels are these days) would be a very bad thing for sure.

 

[[486]]

(like most diesels are these days)

like all diesels have been forever

long as there ain't hyd lifters to pump up it ain't a big deal, the valves are axially inline with the pistons, so they just get bopped back into their seats
hydraulic lifters pumping up makes this movement a lot more forceful and will result in valve stems that look like collapsed connecting rods

 

[arse_sidewards]

Valve float is what some of the people on powerstroke forums were saying is a risk, and apparently why the exhaust brakes try to limit exhaust pressure to ~60# or whatever.

Cheapo turbo wastegate should solve that. Set it to crack at 30. At 60 that fucker will be moving some serious air.

Or just run some big fuckin valve springs on the exhaust side.

Or both.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

long as there ain't hyd lifters to pump up it ain't a big deal, the valves are axially inline with the pistons, so they just get bopped back into their seats
hydraulic lifters pumping up makes this movement a lot more forceful and will result in valve stems that look like collapsed connecting rods

6.0s (maybe all powerstonks?) have hydraulic lifters.

Cheapo turbo wastegate should solve that. Set it to crack at 30. At 60 that fucker will be moving some serious air.

Or just run some big fuckin valve springs on the exhaust side.

Or both.

Well that's the thing, the pacbrake has that integrated. For sure a wastegate would solve that as well.

For the valve springs, with hydro lifters like [486] is saying, not a whole lot you can do, other than figure out what the max backpressure it can handle is, then set your backpressure limit for that amount.

 

[Austin]

I made the mistake of driving my buddy's late model cummins ram 3500. I drove it for a quick jaunt unloaded, but on some decent hills, and holy shit does that factory exhaust brake work. Makes me want one for my 6.0/ZF6 F550.

From reading the literature, it seems to be a simple as buying this:

PacBrake PRXB Exhaust Brake Kit 03-07 6.0L Ford Powerstroke C40010 / C40007

Check out the deal on PacBrake PRXB Exhaust Brake Kit 03-07 6.0L Ford Powerstroke C40010 / C40007 at Diesel Power Products

www.dieselpowerproducts.com

I know nothing about adding these, was just going to say how super impressed I was with the factory one on my Ram. You can really feel the assist it gives with a 10K trailer headed downhill.

Also ... they aren't listed in the Parts Counter but, but I can get them. As a Red Skull you can order these cheaper than that link

 

[GLTHFJ60]

For whatever reason I didn't believe that the "jake brake" tune was going to be super effective, so I put off buying it. Smoked the front brakes on my ford pretty badly on a long downhill grade @ 26k gross (2/4 trailer brakes working) yesterday, and decided that it was time to try the "jake brake" tune.

Flashed the truck an hour ago and took it for a test drive. Holy shit does it work well. It seems to operate by just slamming the VGT veins shut whenever you're off throttle, so upshifting is a bit clunky due to how quick the rpms dump, but nothing that a little technique change won't fix.

Above 2500rpm downhill the braking power is impressive, really impressive, on a test drive at ~19k gross on some short mild grades around my house. In a month I'll have a fully loaded test on a some good steep grades for a full conclusion, but it's impressing the hell out of me so far.


This is all to say, if you are in search of braking power and have a VGT turbo on your truck, see if there's a "jake brake" tune available for it. On my 6.0 I'd say it was well worth the $100 the tune cost.

 

[pcorssmit]

The VGT turbos must put quite a bit of back pressure on the exhaust manifold when in exhaust brake mode. My 09 F750 with the 6.7 Cummins has developed a loud squealing leak when the exhaust brake is in operation. No loss of boost on acceleration.

The 6.7 in my 2015 Dodge started doing this earlier this year. Eventually it got much worse, I found the leak was coming from the EGR connection on top of the manifold. There are two studs with nuts; one of the nuts was 3-4 full turns loose, and the other one was slowly becoming looser. I'd had the EGR worked on at the dealer back when it was under warranty, and I have a feeling the nuts weren't torqued properly. I tightened the nuts, and it's been fine since May.

Pete

 

[[486]]

Flashed the truck an hour ago and took it for a test drive. Holy shit does it work well. It seems to operate by just slamming the VGT veins shut whenever you're off throttle, so upshifting is a bit clunky due to how quick the rpms dump, but nothing that a little technique change won't fix.

try keeping your foot on the go pedal a little bit while shifting
it probably only does it at 0% tps and doesn't do it at 1%
sorta like the pedal switch on an actual jake on a mechanical motor

I set up something similar in the tune of an older TDI but the vanes on those are vacuum actuated instead of oil actuated, so they take a second to react
... I already told this story once ITT lol

 

[A_G]

I was reading about them, and it seemed to always work in conjunction with the trans in tow haul mode. Not done with research yet, but I haven't found an example where someone did that with a stick truck.

my new truck doesnt have to be in tow haul mode...its really obvious when you have it on

On a 7.3 if you still had your EBPV guys would wire that up to be a exhaust brake.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

try keeping your foot on the go pedal a little bit while shifting
it probably only does it at 0% tps and doesn't do it at 1%
sorta like the pedal switch on an actual jake on a mechanical motor

Exactly. That's the technique change. Not used to not completely lifting off the throttle between shifts.

Only improvement would be if I could somehow rig up a switch to turn the "jake brake" on and off without having to flash a tune. Meaning have it off for most of a drive, and switch it on just for the steep grades. No clue how to begin to do that though.