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Stupid heavy truck/trailer axle question

arse_sidewards

arse_sidewards

Red Skull Member
Joined
May 19, 2020
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If I have a dual wheel dayton hub can I skip the inner dual, toss the spacer on and then run the outer dual reversed to make a SRW axle that doesn't have the hub sticking out by a fuckton?

The goal here is to get 76" of space between the tire sidewalls, minimal cost possible. Weight capacity doesn't matter. Two 11R22.5s are enough.
 
I have exactly 1 install worth of experience with daytons and thats on my new (to me) firetruck.

I do not think that will work at all.
 
Or take the tire off the rim and just use the rim.

You have to have two rims and a spacer for the nut and wedge to tighten.

We do it all the time, single it out. Just put it on inside. Empty rim on the outside.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Yeah no spacer. They sell Dayton nuts for specifically for doing this. You toss out the stupid 2 piece nuts.
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Link?

I don't understand at all. How is the nut going to tighten up without the spacer somewhere?

Tiha said:
Or take the tire off the rim and just use the rim.

You have to have two rims and a spacer for the nut and wedge to tighten.

We do it all the time, single it out. Just put it on inside. Empty rim on the outside.
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The rim is wider than the spacer. If I flip the inner dual so it's pointed outboard wouldn't that prevent me from running the outer rim I need to get everything to tighten up?

I'm not trying to just run a single tire as a yard roller. I'm trying to find the cheapest way to sling a semi trailer axle (readily available at the right price) that takes 22.5s under a ~76" wide frame without going deck over.
 
Sorry I was thinking bud not Dayton. I’m not thinking. You have to use 2 rims on a Dayton facing the right way.
 
If you are just trying to roll it up on a trailer, might work.

My last trailer with daytons is out right now so I can't take a pic.
But the hub is tapered. The spacer is cheesy thin metal, trying to clamp any force against the inner hub will just start bending the spacer.

I am thinking the way the rim is made you can't do it too, but I dont' even have a bare rim.

Actually I think my trailer just pulled in. I will go look
 
The TL;DR here is someone wants me to sling a semi axle under an 8k trailer so they can quit fucking around with light duty trailer axle bullshit. The trailer is 72" deck so ~76" after you account for the channel width.

They don't want to go deck over because that would just be nonsensical for what they do.

I don't have an axle yet and can get either for the same price so if you have some trick to make a budd axle 76" (or more) between the sidewalls without adding material inside the axle.

I'm trying to do this bottom dollar so while I am perfectly capable of taking a band saw to the middle of a regular old axle and adding tube in the middle the expense adds up.

ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Sorry I was thinking bud not Dayton. I’m not thinking. You have to use 2 rims on a Dayton facing the right way.
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Wait, you need special nuts to run singles on a budd hub? now I'm really confused. :laughing:
 
Tiha said:
Actually I think my trailer just pulled in. I will go look
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It'd be really cool if you coud get me the inside sidewall to inside sidewall inside sidewall measurement on a regular old trailer axle with budds.
 
arse_sidewards said:
It'd be really cool if you coud get me the inside sidewall to inside sidewall inside sidewall measurement on a regular old trailer axle with budds.
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Fine I will go back out there after I upload pics. LOL

So if you look the wedge is tapered, the inside shoulder of the hub is tapered.
Putting the rim on backwards, well the shoulder is square. The wedge won't have anything to tighten against.
 

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Sceep said:
^^^ that is the most economical way to do it.
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My understanding is that these axles are 5" tube and 5/8 or 3/4 wall. Both online metals and coremark don't have that and it doesn't look like eBay has drops.
 
70-71" including sidewall buldge.

This is a rectangular tube axle circa 1973.
 
M92PV4U said:
What are budds, These?
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Kind of, Budds where originally like that. It is kind of a generic term like vise grips or crescent wrench. Now they are called ball and seat with an inner and outer nut.
or now we also have hub pilot.
 
Tiha said:
Kind of, Budds where originally like that. It is kind of a generic term like vise grips or crescent wrench. Now they are called ball and seat with an inner and outer nut.
or now we also have hub pilot.
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Ok, I call the old-school truck wheels budds, but that's what's stamped on them.
 
M92PV4U said:
Ok, I call the old-school truck wheels budds, but that's what's stamped on them.
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You are normal, we do, most people do. But if you called a wheel guy and told him you wanted a set of budds he will need just a little more information.
Like the color of the floor mats.
 
Tiha said:
70-71" including sidewall buldge.

This is a rectangular tube axle circa 1973.
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Thank you. That lines up with my research.

It's so damn close to what I need.

Tiha said:
Kind of, Budds where originally like that. It is kind of a generic term like vise grips or crescent wrench. Now they are called ball and seat with an inner and outer nut.
or now we also have hub pilot.
Click to expand...
I've never seen a rim that wasn't either a dayton or hub pilot :laughing:
 
How do you people fill about rolling a circle out of flat stock and use that as extra tube to extend the axle?

I don't suck at welding but it's not like I do it from 9-5 5day/wk either.
 
You want to widen the axle? Yeah we have done a few. Shortened some too.

Normally we don't do used axles though because it seems like about half the time we cut them open and find them half rotted away from the inside out.

Not sure flat stock is the strongest unless you are going to add gussets. When we do round axles we order a piece of tube and machine it on a lathe.
Get as tight of a fit as we can. Like drive them on with sledge hammer.
Weld around the outside, then also plug weld it in a few random spots. Haven't had one fail yet.
That is under normal 20k design use. Some off highway.

So depends on what kind of weight you are putting down on it too.
 
Budds have a lug bolt for the inside dual that clamps down the inside wheel. It also is the lug bolt for the outside dual. You take off the outside with a regular lug nut then undo the studs with a square drive socket made specifically for them. Older trucks had left and right hand threads on them.
 
Tiha said:
You want to widen the axle? Yeah we have done a few. Shortened some too.

Normally we don't do used axles though because it seems like about half the time we cut them open and find them half rotted away from the inside out.

Not sure flat stock is the strongest unless you are going to add gussets. When we do round axles we order a piece of tube and machine it on a lathe.
Get as tight of a fit as we can. Like drive them on with sledge hammer.
Weld around the outside, then also plug weld it in a few random spots. Haven't had one fail yet.
That is under normal 20k design use. Some off highway.

So depends on what kind of weight you are putting down on it too.
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I'm thinking bend a ring out of <appropriate width> x <same thickness as tube> flat stock into a ring a and use that instead of tube since my odds of being able to find the right tube at a reasonable price seem low whereas flat stock is everywhere.

While I could use the lathe and make an internal sleeve I don't really want to tack more material costs onto this project so that would depend on me having something around which is unlikely in the 4.xx OD.

Design use here is in the 10k ball park.

Tiha said:
isn't a dayton a hub pilot too?
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Don't get all Jimmy Numbers on me now. :flipoff2:
 
M92PV4U said:
Do you mean to replace the inner rim?
Or to slide over the axle tube?
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What?

I'm trying to make a trailer axle that used standard OTR hubs, wheels and tires that has 76" between the sidewall. Beyond that IDGAF what happens so long as it holds up 10k without breaking.
 
arse_sidewards said:
I'm thinking bend a ring out of <appropriate width> x <same thickness as tube> flat stock into a ring a and use that instead of tube since my odds of being able to find the right tube at a reasonable price seem low whereas flat stock is everywhere.
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Flat stock can be done. Your biggest challenge will be getting it welded together and having it still be straight.

Butt welds are tough and I don't mean in the strong and durable way.
 
I thought that you were trying to make a spacer to replace the inner rim and then run the outta rim on backwards. I'll go reread.
 
M92PV4U said:
I thought that you were trying to make a spacer to replace the inner rim and then run the outta rim on backwards. I'll go reread.
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He's like a woman, changing topics in the middle of a paragraph on ya.

You are correct, that is how the thread started. But now we are at the alternate middle part.
 
arse_sidewards said:
How do you people fill about rolling a circle out of flat stock and use that as extra tube to extend the axle?

I don't suck at welding but it's not like I do it from 9-5 5day/wk either.
Click to expand...
Here what I didn't comprehend :homer:.

Our local machine shop can only roll a circle so small, somewhere above 5".
 
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