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Student loan repayment pause about to un-pause

Blaming previous generations for your failures sounds suspiciously like minorities blaming the evil white male for theirs.

There may be bits of truth to it, but in the end individuals who truly want to succeed find a way. Giving folks an excuse is giving them a handicap.
 
Wow so you know how I voted and since you know, what did I vote on that drove the country off the cliff cause I have zero idea what yer talking about.
What part about "At the macro level, obviously. No one asshole dropping a wrapper or a needle is responsible for the park being full of trash but every little bit matters just like every vote for dumb neoliberal and/or globalist policy." was unclear to you?
 
Blaming previous generations for your failures sounds suspiciously like minorities blaming the evil white male for theirs.

There may be bits of truth to it, but in the end individuals who truly want to succeed find a way. Giving folks an excuse is giving them a handicap.
There's a difference between blaming people for failure and simply not respecting them and their opinions because they got dealt and easy hand and then played it so poorly that nobody will ever get a chance that's even close to what they had again.
 
Mike p hawking Thompson just sent out an email gloating about expanding the debt ceiling :mad3:
Fukkin idiots need to live on a budget :flipoff:
And give up the revenue stream know as taxpayers (yea I know:shaking::lmao:) .
Pay yer bills, then go play people...
They live on a budget, it's just an old one that they keep extending, they have gotten accustomed to being able to raise the tax rate to match the amount that they want to spend.
IMO they need to pass a actual budget, not continuing resolutions each year and it needs to include all the income and revenue to cover the planned spending under that budget.


Aaron Z
 

They live on a budget, it's just an old one that they keep extending, they have gotten accustomed to being able to raise the tax rate to match the amount that they want to spend.
And just wait till they really start digging in and raising that tax rate.

De-valuing the dollar through inflation or raising the tax rate are the only ways to service the debt.
 
On the would you rather be a boomer or a millennial question. My parents are the tail end of the boomers and graduated college in 83-84 with degrees in mining engineering. Pretty much just in time for commodities to crash, literally everyone I know that was in an extractive industry lost their job at least once in the 80s for a few years and my dad hasn't worked in mining for 40 years. I graduated in Dec 09 and have worked in extractive industries continuously since, With the exception of 2020 where if I had stayed in oil I would have been out of work for probably 6-9 months I have worked continuously and always had more options. Cant really complain about being a millennial on the employment opportunities.

Talking to my parents they had lots of missed opportunities to really build wealth and looking back I should have levered up and bought everything I could get a loan on from 10-13 and again in 18. Not gonna complain about that, just try to teach my kids how to evaluate opportunities and be comfortable with risk.

401k, yeah effectively subsidizing the market for 12 years made boomers okay sum blow up but in 2010 getting married in 2017 I lived pretty cheap and shoved money in hard. Hell my companies ESPP allowed me to put a down payment on my first real house after it appreciated 33-100% in 5 years. Not particularly mad.

Vehicle's? Yeah I can't buy decent $500 beaters like they could but I've also never done a transmission in a work truck and growing up with Chevys my dad did them every couple of years. I can haul ass at 80 in shit conditions and 300k is that big of deal on my commuter car..

Costs? I pay $135/month for two smart phones and internet. My parents were paying almost $100/month for a landline and dial up in the 90s so I'm pretty happy with that. Electrical is more expensive but my consumption is a lot lower thanks to stuff like LED lights and more efficient windows.
 
Yep we had it easy.

and buying a house in the 80's-90's was so easy. :laughing:

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I don’t “blame” boomers for my situation. Rather, I firmly believe, and evidence supports, they had it easier than any other generation in the history of humankind on planet Earth.

I went to school because when I graduated college, the economy was beginning its long free fall. In 2008, when I graduated, the recession was already exploding. The sub prime mortgage scam was, for all intents and purposes, laid at the feet of the boomers. Millennials simply enjoyed that disaster without being responsible for it one iota.

To suggest 2009 was an economic boom is absurd. The economy under Obama was atrocious, with GDP growth moving slower than Biden down a set of stairs. Things didn’t get better until the end of his second administration and into trumps first years.

It’s easier put this way— raise your hand if you wish you could’ve entered the workforce as a millennial rather than a boomer.

Anyone? Bueller?

2009 was indeed the start of the bull market for the last 12 years prior to the COVID crash, not to mention the long-term low interest rates that were unprecedented for any other time in recent history. The standard rate I was given for my mortgage was 2.625% with options to go up or down for money upfront. Even the current "high" interest rates are below average in a historical perspective as Wildwun posted previously.

This is a graph of the DJIA, and while the 2009-2021 boom may not seem as big as earlier booms, keep in mind that the value axis is on a logarithmic scale in this chart.
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The economy was booming, and anyone who wasn't taking advantage pre-COVID is a fool. Millennials were certainly in a position to take advantage if they hadn't saddled themselves with massive debt.
 
How dare you bring facts into the conversation!
This is about blaming prior generations for your failures, not facts. :lmao:

Did you notice he didn’t post the price of new homes, instead of posting mortgage rates? It’s precisely how people are manipulated into believing whatever message they are being fed.
 

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Did you notice he didn’t post the price of new homes, instead of posting mortgage rates? It’s precisely how people are manipulated into believing whatever message they are being fed.

No post one with the average size of homes from then until now. My grandparents' home was under 800 sf. My parents' was a maybe 1200. Now you can't find anything under 2k.
 
Did you notice he didn’t post the price of new homes, instead of posting mortgage rates? It’s precisely how people are manipulated into believing whatever message they are being fed.
Just like nobody talks about the way of life for the average American, then vs now, when trying to blame boomers for their failures?
 
Did you notice he didn’t post the price of new homes, instead of posting mortgage rates? It’s precisely how people are manipulated into believing whatever message they are being fed.

That chart is not adjusted for inflation, so it makes things seem more dramatic than they actually are. Even adjusted for inflation, the trend still holds, however the sharpest part of the increase occurred over just the last few years. Heres a chart with home prices normalized to inflation:
Screen Shot 2023-06-04 at 2.28.34 PM.png



However, as pointed out bgaidan and others, the average size of homes in the U.S. has more than doubled since the 1960s.
floorareaincreasesqft.png


Maybe everyone doesn't need to live in a McMansion? My home is 1,550 sq.ft. I could have afforded more house, but I never understood having all of your wealth tied up in your primary residence.
 
That chart is not adjusted for inflation, so it makes things seem more dramatic than they actually are. Even adjusted for inflation, the trend still holds, however the sharpest part of the increase occurred over just the last few years. Heres a chart with home prices normalized to inflation:
Screen Shot 2023-06-04 at 2.28.34 PM.png



However, as pointed out bgaidan and others, the average size of homes in the U.S. has more than doubled since the 1960s.
floorareaincreasesqft.png


Maybe everyone doesn't need to live in a McMansion? My home is 1,550 sq.ft. I could have afforded more house, but I never understood having all of your wealth tied up in your primary residence.
The ability of a person to get into a home, vs an apartment, is one of (if not the) best ways to acquire wealth. More people would gladly exchange price for interest costs, as that means getting into a house sooner. (Down payment becomes less) The day a person stops paying rent is the day they start paying themselves.

Ultimately I think gen Z will have it harder than anyone else. High home prices, insane interest, insane inflation, and the same stagnant wage growth since the tail end of the 80s.

Every starter home is now some assholes air BnB, leaving no inventory. So, they stay in apartments where rent is more than a mortgage. Grocery, gas, auto, you name it, is higher than ever with little chance of slowing down.

God help you if you’re poor, because life is hard enough for those with good salaries.
 
Really, then you live with in your means. We have all did it. Yes everything is going to be more expensive. Do you think maybe raising the minimum wage may have had something to do with it. ?? Heck I was 28 years old before I bought my first house. $30,000 no garage, very small lot, but it was mine.
 
The ability of a person to get into a home, vs an apartment, is one of (if not the) best ways to acquire wealth. More people would gladly exchange price for interest costs, as that means getting into a house sooner. (Down payment becomes less) The day a person stops paying rent is the day they start paying themselves.
Then maybe people should focus on that instead of rolling over the note on a brand new $50k car every 3 years. Or a new iPhone every year. Or want to live in the trendiest part of the most expensive cities. Or...or....or.

The people that want it all and want it now and don't want to actually work for it don't deserve any of it.

Ultimately I think gen Z will have it harder than anyone else. High home prices, insane interest, insane inflation, and the same stagnant wage growth since the tail end of the 80s.

Every starter home is now some assholes air BnB, leaving no inventory. So, they stay in apartments where rent is more than a mortgage. Grocery, gas, auto, you name it, is higher than ever with little chance of slowing down.
If rent is higher than a mortgage, then go buy a house and take out mortgage. Oh wait, but you want to live right in the heart of the city with everything at your fingertips. Anyone with half a brain and the slightest hint of common sense can piece together that it would be better to go buy a place in location that may not be your perfect little picture of heaven than to pay stupid rent in the place that everyone wants to live.

God help you if you’re poor, because life is hard enough for those with good salaries.

More like god help you if you're stupid. There is zero excuse for someone with a "good salary" to not live a comfortable life by simply living within their means. But that last part seems to be the hardest for the "want it alls".

We continue to be the country with the most upward class mobility compared to any other developed nation. Those who want to put in the effort to succeed at life have the best chance at doing so when compared to any other country and any other time in history.
 
Did you notice he didn’t post the price of new homes, instead of posting mortgage rates? It’s precisely how people are manipulated into believing whatever message they are being fed.
did you notice I also didn't mention that at that time I made about 25% per year of what I make now?
what is your point?

all I showed was that home mortgage rates we at all-time highs back then.
of course housing costs have gone up, just as everything else has.

also as posted it is hard to make a straight-line comparison between then and now as homes were more simple and smaller then, not so much now.

every generation seems to feel the ones prior had it easier, just as I did.
give it time, and millennials will be blamed for ruining this country too.
 
Then maybe people should focus on that instead of rolling over the note on a brand new $50k car every 3 years. Or a new iPhone every year. Or want to live in the trendiest part of the most expensive cities. Or...or....or.

The people that want it all and want it now and don't want to actually work for it don't deserve any of it.


If rent is higher than a mortgage, then go buy a house and take out mortgage. Oh wait, but you want to live right in the heart of the city with everything at your fingertips. Anyone with half a brain and the slightest hint of common sense can piece together that it would be better to go buy a place in location that may not be your perfect little picture of heaven than to pay stupid rent in the place that everyone wants to live.



More like god help you if you're stupid. There is zero excuse for someone with a "good salary" to not live a comfortable life by simply living within their means. But that last part seems to be the hardest for the "want it alls".

We continue to be the country with the most upward class mobility compared to any other developed nation. Those who want to put in the effort to succeed at life have the best chance at doing so when compared to any other country and any other time in history.

/thread
 
I'll throw out what I've seen as the leading edge of gen Z. The student loans need to resume. At this point the most affected are the older gen Z and younger millennials. Both of whom are the most capable of moving back home and working the bare minimum hours to afford fake luxuries like door dash, Starbucks, and Netflix instead of being productive. Having them forced back in to the workplace is crucial.


TLDR: People are living longer than ever, slowing down turnover, hurting younger generations far more than in previous generations.


As for what the boomers did, I can find 3 things. I don't blame them for any of them, they just got lucky.

The first thing they did was live longer than the previous generations. This gives them more time to build wealth, more time to hold on to it, and less turnover to the younger generations. Housing in particular is a big issue. My grandfather, in a welcome to the company meeting with other engineering new hires was told that the statistics showed that he would work to 60, and die at 65. He's 80+. Him and my grandmother still live in the same house that their kids graduated high school from.

The second thing they did is live longer suddenly. Had the life expectancy increase a 1-3 years per generation, the first thing would not have been an issue; society would have had time to react and change. Instead it was a 10+year jump, with the wealthier members exceeding that. No time to react. All greatly compounding the slowing down of wealth turnover. I have tried, without success, to find a graph showing the difference in life expectancy at birth vs actual average age of death over the years.

And three, there are a lot of them. They are called the baby boomers for a reason. Anything thing they do they do with an extreme amount of weight, even if its unintentional. If on average they live longer, have more wealth, live in there home longer, it has a massive reach.


Now to throw my own generation under the bus. Social media has screwed our minds up so much. Everyone views it as there shortcut to money. "I'll be the next big streamer." Or "Why work when I can do onlyfans for the little bit of money I need while living with my parents." Or it gives them this false idea of the jobs and lifestyles they can obtain. Anyone see those day in the life of a tech employee videos a few months ago? It seems like every day there is another news story saying "I moved into a traveling house, look how awesome my life is" or "I'm a self made millionaire at 20. Pay to view my social media and I'll show you how." There is the issue of wanting the mid career and early retirement wealth right out of college, and growing up seeing credit cards instead of cash does not help. All while entering into an economy lead by services instead of goods production.

At the same time, there are a lot young white and blue collar people trying to get a start on a life similar to what their parents have. But we run into major blockages. More day to day costs. Internet, phone, etc. High gas and groceries. High prices for over complicated, over regulated vehicles. High prices for entry level houses. Lack of entry level houses. Lack of things like fixer uppers; mid career people are buying anything that's not gutted, doing a cheap renovation, and renting or flipping it. I don't blame them, I would too. And now, with high interest rates, anyone who bought in the last few years is holding. All things that overly affect those trying to get into the system. Those who have been in the system aren't affected when house prices go up $100K because their house also went up $100k. To trade up costs them the same amount as before the price increase.

And to those who say that you don't have to live in the city, that's where most of the jobs are. And most of the livable area and land outside the city has been bought and developed or is not for sale. The couple acre lots 30-40 minutes outside of town are rapidly drying up, and what's left is demanding a premium as those with money leave the crowds. So we get stuck renting or trying to buy into a cramped, expensive area.

So we are stuck waiting for the bubbles to burst. Tech, vehicles, housing, the unproductive jobs. We want the economy to tighten its belt and trim some fat because it is the only way we see a chance to live the lives our parents lived.
 
And to those who say that you don't have to live in the city, that's where most of the jobs are. And most of the livable area and land outside the city has been bought and developed or is not for sale. The couple acre lots 30-40 minutes outside of town are rapidly drying up, and what's left is demanding a premium as those with money leave the crowds. So we get stuck renting or trying to buy into a cramped, expensive area.

So we are stuck waiting for the bubbles to burst. Tech, vehicles, housing, the unproductive jobs. We want the economy to tighten its belt and trim some fat because it is the only way we see a chance to live the lives our parents lived.
Incorrect. I am always hiring, and my wife cannot find enough quality employees for her employer (she's an HR Manager). Why? Not enough population here. Those from the cities see the salaries out here and think they are too low, yet they cannot fathom how much less you need to live on when your rent is $800 vs $2400. That alone is a reduction in spending of just about $20k. Car insurance is lower, fuel costs are lower (no sitting in traffic), taxes are lower (less property valuation to steal), thereby everything comes in cheaper in the end.

Look around at the small towns 90+ minutes outside the big city. Look at the employment opportunities, then add 50% to the pay because that is what it would equate to in your life.
 
Incorrect. I am always hiring, and my wife cannot find enough quality employees for her employer (she's an HR Manager). Why? Not enough population here. Those from the cities see the salaries out here and think they are too low, yet they cannot fathom how much less you need to live on when your rent is $800 vs $2400. That alone is a reduction in spending of just about $20k. Car insurance is lower, fuel costs are lower (no sitting in traffic), taxes are lower (less property valuation to steal), thereby everything comes in cheaper in the end.

Look around at the small towns 90+ minutes outside the big city. Look at the employment opportunities, then add 50% to the pay because that is what it would equate to in your life.
That works for the old dicks sliding into retirement.

For the young guys who are skimming X% off of their earning to save for a down payment or to pump up that 401k (even more so if you have some % employer match) having the bigger "city number" helps.
 
Incorrect. I am always hiring, and my wife cannot find enough quality employees for her employer (she's an HR Manager). Why? Not enough population here. Those from the cities see the salaries out here and think they are too low, yet they cannot fathom how much less you need to live on when your rent is $800 vs $2400. That alone is a reduction in spending of just about $20k. Car insurance is lower, fuel costs are lower (no sitting in traffic), taxes are lower (less property valuation to steal), thereby everything comes in cheaper in the end.

Look around at the small towns 90+ minutes outside the big city. Look at the employment opportunities, then add 50% to the pay because that is what it would equate to in your life.

Bingo. I used to get headhunters all the the time telling me I could double my salary by going to work for xx company. Except that company mostly did work in shitty, super high COL areas.

When I moved back east from TX, I turned down a job that would have paid at least 50% more than the one I ended up taking. Why? Because the project they were trying to hire me for was in DC. I did a quick search looking for property within an hour or so of the location and the "cheapest" thing I could find was almost $1m. I ended up moving to NC and bought 3x the house for $300k.

I work(ed) in a field that couldn't find enough qualified and reasonably intelligent young people. We were starting fresh college grads out at $80k, giving them a truck, decent benefits, travel and living expenses and we couldn't find enough of them. One company I worked for was recruiting college sophomores and juniors with internships we didn't really need, just to get them locked in to bring them on full time when they graduated. Most of them would have 4-5 offers before they got out of school. And we're talking a relatively basic 4 year degree.


That works for the old dicks sliding into retirement.

For the young guys who are skimming X% off of their earning to save for a down payment or to pump up that 401k (even more so if you have some % employer match) having the bigger "city number" helps.

Bullshit. The math doesn't lie.


That 401k match equates to a few grand a year for the average millennial/genx salary. Not even a drop in the bucket for the COL difference you're talking about.
 
That 401k match equates to a few grand a year for the average millennial/genx salary. Not even a drop in the bucket for the COL difference you're talking about.

If you live like an idiot going out to eat all the time and doing other shit where the cost scales with the local COL then sure. If you're going to trap mice in your apartment while drinking cheap beer and eating ramen either way you'll be able to skim more off the top in the city.

Bullshit. The math doesn't lie.

So then run the fucking numbers before you run your mouth.

Banking 10% of a 110k salary is way better than banking 10% of a 75k salary.

Other than rent the savings of living somewhere cheaper don't really add up that much.

The savings fall off stupid fast. If I lived in a cheap apartment where I live now I'd have maybe a $1300 rent. If I moved closer to Boston it'd be $2k. If I moved an hour west it'd be $1000. Food/gas/stuff get cheaper between Boston and me but after that they flatline. Living where I live now or closer to boston those stupid money jobs are within realistic reach. Another hour and they're not.
 
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If you're going to trap mice in your apartment while drinking cheap beer and eating ramen either way you'll be able to skim more off the top in the city.
Yup. Currently doing that. Work in a small city. Rent a room, put up with roommates and put 50% aside saving towards a house, a non rust bucket truck, and other longer term investments. But needing to put aside 2x as much as I would have 4 years ago hurts. Alot.
dont really see that sudden change.

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Is there a year range on that? Or some other indication of what historical means? If that's a 14% increase in 1 generation, that is pretty sudden.
but we are outnumbered already

72.24 million

Millennials were the largest generation group in the U.S. in 2022, with an estimated population of 72.24 million. Born between 1981 and 1996
I stand corrected on the size. But is that largest generation currently, or largest historically?
 
If you live like an idiot going out to eat all the time and doing other shit where the cost scales with the local COL then sure. If you're going to trap mice in your apartment while drinking cheap beer and eating ramen either way you'll be able to skim more off the top in the city.



So then run the fucking numbers before you run your mouth.

Banking 10% of a 110k salary is way better than banking 10% of a 75k salary.

Other than rent the savings of living somewhere cheaper don't really add up that much.

The savings fall off stupid fast. If I lived in a cheap apartment where I live now I'd have maybe a $1300 rent. If I moved closer to Boston it'd be $2k. If I moved an hour west it'd be $1000. Food/gas/stuff get cheaper between Boston and me but after that they flatline. Living where I live now or closer to boston those stupid money jobs are within realistic reach. Another hour and they're not.

The people living dirt cheap while putting away a down payment aren't the subjects here. Those people also would have kept paying their student loan principal down during the pause too.

The people bitching about having to pay their loans, while living in a $3k/mo luxury apartment with a movie theater and dog massage parlor while driving a new $80k tesla and eating out 15 times a week are the ones we're talking about. There is zero excuse to not be able to afford to live comfortably if you have a useful degree and some basic common sense. Unless you're just fully bought in to the whole "dream job" and "do what you love" bullshit and think you deserve everything now because you put in some minimal effort.
 
The people living dirt cheap while putting away a down payment aren't the subjects here. Those people also would have kept paying their student loan principal down during the pause too.

The people bitching about having to pay their loans, while living in a $3k/mo luxury apartment with a movie theater and dog massage parlor while driving a new $80k tesla and eating out 15 times a week are the ones we're talking about. There is zero excuse to not be able to afford to live comfortably if you have a useful degree and some basic common sense. Unless you're just fully bought in to the whole "dream job" and "do what you love" bullshit and think you deserve everything now because you put in some minimal effort.
Especially if those people “leveled up” during the scamdemic because of things like pause button on student loan’s because they were certain the Democrats were going to wipe out student loan debt this time!

Just wait till these people realize how upside down they are in that Toyota or Bronco they payed over $20 over MSRP on. How upside down they are on homes they paid over $100K over list on. I expect insurance fraud to skyrocket over the next several years to cover gaps.
 
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