State of housing costs in the US. Where does it end?

[mobil1syn]

It's a remarkably easy fix. No one needs two homes. If you want a second home, prepare to pay Uncle Sam handsomely

you been hanging in singapore i see

 

[Motorcharge]

So another tangent.

US family culture.

We have been brainwashed to move out, and start your own household.

Other cultures have the entire family together as a family unit. Even married, they stick together, take care of their parents in one household.
My Pakistani friend .. they have a nice house, but it's him, his brother (with wife & kid), his mom, and who knows who else living in a single family home in a nice area.

I have felt that in the US we are influences that way in an effort to sell silverware and towels. You can't get rich selling couches, when you live in a single household, but you convince everyone that they need to break away from the family at 18, you get to sell the new renter, silverware, and towels, and couches, that they would never buy if they stayed as a more intact family unit.

(that being said, I don't want to live with my parents OR my adult kid, but I'm an American and behave as such).

That's because post-WWII it was entirely reasonable and possible to move out on your own at that age. That's just been slowly destroyed by the government to the point we're at today. If it weren't for government interference in the market and the destruction of the value of the dollar by the Federal Reserve and the Federal government taking us off the gold standard we'd still be able to do that today. That was the progress that made the US and what a free market represented. Marxists have intentionally destroyed that because they want to keep people poor, less educated, and dependent upon their governments for basic necessities.

 

[Tin Roof]

So another tangent.

US family culture.

We have been brainwashed to move out, and start your own household.

Other cultures have the entire family together as a family unit. Even married, they stick together, take care of their parents in one household.
My Pakistani friend .. they have a nice house, but it's him, his brother (with wife & kid), his mom, and who knows who else living in a single family home in a nice area.

I have felt that in the US we are influences that way in an effort to sell silverware and towels. You can't get rich selling couches, when you live in a single household, but you convince everyone that they need to break away from the family at 18, you get to sell the new renter, silverware, and towels, and couches, that they would never buy if they stayed as a more intact family unit.

(that being said, I don't want to live with my parents OR my adult kid, but I'm an American and behave as such).

Expand that into transportation and vehicles as well.
Mass transportation hasn't taken off as viable because we've all been raised/used to having our own vehicles and setting our own travel schedules.
In other cultures everyone having multiple vehicles and driving themselves everywhere is not the norm.

Even just carpooling. If we have a project with a tight footprint and very little parking area, guys bitch about having to carpool to the project to save space. Even though they work the same hours and are traveling to/from similar locations.

 

[Motorcharge]

Expand that into transportation and vehicles as well.
Mass transportation hasn't taken off as viable because we've all been raised/used to having our own vehicles and setting our own travel schedules.
In other cultures everyone have multiple vehicles and driving themselves everywhere is not the norm.

Even just carpooling. If we have a project with a tight footprint and very little parking area, guys bitch about having to carpool to the project to save space. Even though they work the same hours and are traveling to/from similar locations.

That's only part of it. Mass transportation isn't as viable in the US as it is in Europe because of how large this country is. Logistically it's just not the same. It does exist where it's economically viable in places like the Northeast in the US, but for the bulk of the country it would be a colossal black hole of costs for infrastructure and maintenance.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

Chicken and egg. The cost of living in Cali didnt start that way, and it didnt happen overnight. Salaries and living costs tend to chase each other upward, simple economics. That is sped up by there being something that people really want. Cali salaries are high because the people have been voting for bullshit social programs and electing socialists for 40 years. Just fukkin RUINED that beautiful place.

And we all encourage you to stay in Cali.

I'd throw population into the mix when talking about home prices. There are a shitload of people here and they all need somewhere to live. I don't think it's a coincidence that high density population areas have more expensive home prices.

I disagree that salaries have anything to do with social programs.

 

[bad zuki]

So another tangent.
US family culture.
We have been brainwashed to move out, and start your own household.
Other cultures have the entire family together as a family unit. Even married, they stick together, take care of their parents in one household.
My Pakistani friend .. they have a nice house, but it's him, his brother (with wife & kid), his mom, and who knows who else living in a single family home in a nice area.
I have felt that in the US we are influences that way in an effort to sell silverware and towels. You can't get rich selling couches, when you live in a single household, but you convince everyone that they need to break away from the family at 18, you get to sell the new renter, silverware, and towels, and couches, that they would never buy if they stayed as a more intact family unit.

(that being said, I don't want to live with my parents OR my adult kid, but I'm an American and behave as such).

The US system is based upon consuming, It wants you to want everything you don't need. A F450, A Daycare, Bunch of land, Sheep, etc.
It doesn't care how you feel, as long as you feel good buying something new and shiny. I think we covered that alot of that in the trump shot thread. I lived with my parents longer than I wished I would have, but It all worked out for me.

Social media grabbed this concept by the neck and raised it to unprecedented levels. Keeping up with the jones, is gone and keeping up with the kardashians is here to stay.

Mass transit only works if you don't have a viable option for cheap transportation. We have cheap energy here. Perks of being the best.

 

[Tin Roof]

That's only part of it. Mass transportation isn't as viable in the US as it is in Europe because of how large this country is. Logistically it's just not the same. It does exist where it's economically viable in places like the Northeast in the US, but for the bulk of the country it would be a colossal black hole of costs for infrastructure and maintenance.

From the couple towns by where I live to the two main larger cities there's an exodus every morning of people going to work. A literal line of cars traveling the 45-50 miles one way, over 75% of them with just one person in them. There's already rail that exists between these areas.
I realize there's infrastructure expense, but I'm not talking from Des Moines to Denver. I'm talking about the 60 mile or less daily work commutes.

 

[JD Mark]

That's only part of it. Mass transportation isn't as viable in the US as it is in Europe because of how large this country is. Logistically it's just not the same. It does exist where it's economically viable in places like the Northeast in the US, but for the bulk of the country it would be a colossal black hole of costs for infrastructure and maintenance.

It's a black hole everywhere if you look at it closely.

 

[grumpy356]

From the couple towns by where I live to the two main larger cities there's an exodus every morning of people going to work. A literal line of cars traveling the 45-50 miles one way, over 75% of them with just one person in them. There's already rail that exists between these areas.
I realize there's infrastructure expense, but I'm not talking from Des Moines to Denver. I'm talking about the 60 mile or less daily work commutes.

I have a HATRED of public transportation (Buses especially)
A few years back, some guy in Canada went nuts on a greyhound and decapitated a guy up in Manitoba.

All I could think about was ,, Well shit, that would never be me, becasue I would never be on a fukin bus.

RIP headless dude.

 

[Motorcharge]

It's a black hole everywhere if you look at it closely.

Exactly, and it just gets worse and worse the further apart things are. You can tell Europeans that til they're blue in the face and they'll just smugly act like they're wrong. But they come here once and it's an enormous culture shock to them just how big this country actually is.

 

[Motorcharge]

From the couple towns by where I live to the two main larger cities there's an exodus every morning of people going to work. A literal line of cars traveling the 45-50 miles one way, over 75% of them with just one person in them. There's already rail that exists between these areas.
I realize there's infrastructure expense, but I'm not talking from Des Moines to Denver. I'm talking about the 60 mile or less daily work commutes.

Guarantee if you run the numbers on changing that it doesn't work out.

Also fuck public transportation in general. The general public fucking sucks. It's all I can do to drive to work and go to the grocery store once a week without losing my shit at how stupid and in the way people are. I can't imagine having to be stuck on a god damn bus or train with the public every damn day.

 

[Tin Roof]

I have a HATRED of public transportation (Buses especially)
A few years back, some guy in Canada went nuts on a greyhound and decapitated a guy up in Manitoba.

All I could think about was ,, Well shit, that would never be me, becasue I would never be a a fukin bus.

To be fair, I wouldn't use it regardless. I just believe that one of reasons it's not used here is because we've been raised to view it as unnecessary.

 

[SanDiegoCJ]

That's only part of it. Mass transportation isn't as viable in the US as it is in Europe because of how large this country is. Logistically it's just not the same. It does exist where it's economically viable in places like the Northeast in the US, but for the bulk of the country it would be a colossal black hole of costs for infrastructure and maintenance.

This is true. Twin Falls, Idaho tried a bus service a number of years ago and shut it down because it was a massive $$$$$$$$ loser. Since the last census the population went over 50K so a federal law says cities over 50K have to have a transit system. The city set up a bunch of vans that are similar to Uber to comply since a "bus service" is a financial money pit. Public Transportion | Twin Falls Transit | Ride TFT

 

[Tin Roof]

Guarantee if you run the numbers on changing that it doesn't work out.

Also fuck public transportation in general. The general public fucking sucks. It's all I can do to drive to work and go to the grocery store once a week without losing my shit at how stupid and in the way people are. I can't imagine having to be stuck on a god damn bus or train with the public every damn day.

See my post above.

And I also hate being around the public in general outside of those I get paid to deal with at work. And some of those are borderline tolerable.

 

[JD Mark]

I have a HATRED of public transportation (Buses especially)
A few years back, some guy in Canada went nuts on a greyhound and decapitated a guy up in Manitoba.

All I could think about was ,, Well shit, that would never be me, becasue I would never be a a fukin bus.

I rode the subway or whatever in Boston when we were touristing.

I'll never use public transportation again. I don't even like to fly because of all the people. But that's getting to be just as bad as a bus or subway.

 

[mobil1syn]

From the couple towns by where I live to the two main larger cities there's an exodus every morning of people going to work. A literal line of cars traveling the 45-50 miles one way, over 75% of them with just one person in them. There's already rail that exists between these areas.
I realize there's infrastructure expense, but I'm not talking from Des Moines to Denver. I'm talking about the 60 mile or less daily work commutes.

90% of those jobs could be done remotely.

smaller less centralized offices for the pencil pushers and email senders would solve that problem

 

[bad zuki]

From the couple towns by where I live to the two main larger cities there's an exodus every morning of people going to work. A literal line of cars traveling the 45-50 miles one way, over 75% of them with just one person in them. There's already rail that exists between these areas.
I realize there's infrastructure expense, but I'm not talking from Des Moines to Denver. I'm talking about the 60 mile or less daily work commutes.

I'd wager that 80% of the population that works in DC lives outside of 30 miles away from DC. Same with any big Shity

 

[NakedJeep]

"It's Never Been Easier To Become A Billionaire, But It’s Never Been Harder To Become A Millionaire"

adjust

 

[dntsdad]

bull shit, lots of folks out there doing it. my sister bought a house in 1981 with a 12% mortgage. it was a 2 bedroom one bath and she drove a new celica. she was frugal and was 1 year out of college. how many poeple woud even looked at a 1000 sqft house 40 years old now a days? i have guys i work with making 100k plus a year and whine like bitches about housing. they spend it like morons. i have my 3 kids making bank and none of them have a house. they make their choices on what the want and they are fine with it. as long as they stay out of my pocket i don't care.
i have another buddy that builds the metal buildings, both of his sons are in new houses and his nephew. all under 25 but he did use his contacts to help them. but thats what parents do.

Yep, maybe you are right. I read about those goldminers who came out west and bought 10 acres to mine and pan for 2 pinches of gold dust!

Fuck, they did it, I guess that translates to today about as perfectly as comparing buying a 1000sq ft in fucking 1981 and a new Celica that probably cost $3500?

This is literally the dumbest shit I have read in the thread thus far.

I bought the house I live in now for 92000 in 1997. Zillow has it at $417

That is a 450% increase. You are saying that average wages, especially non college people, went up anywhere close to that? GTFOH with you nonsense.

That compared nothing to today at all either.

I didn' t buy until I was 31 and that was with a wife a two incomes. I was the only one in my friend group that didn't own a house by then. It was rare to see someone from my area/economic group/whatever not own a house by 30. Now, from what I see, it's flipped. Its maybe not rare to see someone, especially single, have a home under 30 but it's not common by any means.

 

[grumpy356]

90% of those jobs could be done remotely.

smaller less centralized offices for the pencil pushers and email senders would solve that problem

The problem is 2 fold.
Management doesn't believe you are working when they don't see you in the office.
(hell, I work with companies who moved department to work from home, and you can definitely tell a difference in work quality, and generally .... not for the better)

Some people can't work without supervision. They need a body there to hold them accountable.

 

[DMG]

This problem may solve itself as we follow the trajectory of most western countries towards population decline.

 

[arse_sidewards]

That's because post-WWII it was entirely reasonable and possible to move out on your own at that age. That's just been slowly destroyed by the government to the point we're at today.

Exactly. Moving out was something people did if they could afford it and something that became widespread soon as society was broadly rich enough for most people to pull it off.

Some people have just deluded themselves into looking at it as unnatural now that society is getting too poor for it again.

 

[Tin Roof]

Exactly. Moving out was something people did if they could afford it and something that became widespread soon as society was broadly rich enough for most people to pull it off.

Some people have just deluded themselves into looking at it as unnatural now that society is getting too poor for it again.

And some disregard that it's still regional. There's still several areas across the country where young people can afford houses. It's the high population areas that are fucked, and vacation destinations.

 

[Motorcharge]

This problem may solve itself as we follow the trajectory of most western countries towards population decline.

We would be if we weren't importing millions of people from the third world annually.

And some disregard that it's still regional. There's still several areas across the country where young people can afford houses. It's the high population areas that are fucked, and vacation destinations.

It's disregarded because when we're talking about a problem as a nation it's not the norm or average. That standard is on the decline everywhere. The areas you're talking about are on the other side of it where lots of middle America was in the same position 20 years ago and now isn't here at all anymore because those areas have dried up and died.

Assuming you're talking about where you live, how realistic is it for people to move there and expect to be able to get a job in their field. It's either not, or if it is, it's a matter of time before people figure that out, move there en mass, and all this bullshit follows because your housing market booms through the roof in a matter of months or a couple of years and suddenly anyone who didn't already own in that area is fucked if they're not coming from somewhere else.

 

[DMG]

I think entitlement is a factor. People used to live where they could afford to buy a house. They bought cheap starter or fixer homes. They lived with their parents longer.

Now they rant on social media about the housing crisis when they can’t buy something awesome in a trendy area on a baristas salary. They are convinced that they deserve everything their way and won’t make the compromises previous generations made. And it’s all the fault of someone else.

 

[Tin Roof]

We would be if we weren't importing millions of people from the third world annually.


It's disregarded because when we're talking about a problem as a nation it's not the norm or average. That standard is on the decline everywhere. The areas you're talking about are on the other side of it where lots of middle America was in the same position 20 years ago and now isn't here at all anymore because those areas have dried up and died.

Assuming you're talking about where you live, how realistic is it for people to move there and expect to be able to get a job in their field. It's either not, or if it is, it's a matter of time before people figure that out, move there en mass, and all this bullshit follows because your housing market booms through the roof in a matter of months or a couple of years and suddenly anyone who didn't already own in that area is fucked if they're not coming from somewhere else.

Within 3 hours of me Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc have all established main hub locations within the last 5-10 years. Along with that are all the jobs usually associated with those companies. Engineering, construction, IT, medical, etc. It's all here. Yes there's barren spots in the midwest, but it's not all ghost towns.

There's plenty of jobs and good salaries, but we're overlooked because those salaries equal a good living here, not in high population areas. $100k/yr income and being able to buy a 3/2 house for $200k or under is a decent way to live.

 

[rockota]

I'd throw population into the mix when talking about home prices. There are a shitload of people here and they all need somewhere to live. I don't think it's a coincidence that high density population areas have more expensive home prices.

I disagree that salaries have anything to do with social programs.

Salaries are impacted by cost of living... cost of living is impacted by taxes and social programs.

That's why many companies have 4 tiers of "cost of labor" scales... Tier 1 - NYC, SFO, Seattle. Tier 2 - Northern high-taxed states. Tier 3 - other... Tier 4 south.

6 years ago, poverty level for a family of 4 was $126K in Palo Alto... according my employer.

 

[Motorcharge]

Within 3 hours of me Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc have all established main hub locations within the last 5-10 years. Along with that are all the jobs usually assorted with those companies. Engineering, construction, medical, etc. It's all here. Yes there's barren spots in the midwest, but it's not all ghost towns.

There's plenty of jobs and good salaries, but we're overlooked because those salaries equal a good living here, not in high population areas. $100k/yr income and being able to buy a 3/2 house for $200k or under is a decent way to live.

Give it a few years, bet all that housing doubles or triples in price and the salaries don't. That's what happened here. Lots of tech and corporate companies moved offices here because the cost of living was low. Now the cost of living is 4-5x what it was and no one pays enough to buy a house here anymore unless you're bringing a salary from a bigger market with you. Just since COVID housing prices have basically doubled or tripled and they had gotten unaffordable prior to that already.

edit: If that's still the case 5 years from now, DM me because I might be looking to move and will need a new job.

 

[rockota]

Give it a few years, but all that housing doubles or triples in price and the salaries don't. That's what happened here. Lots of tech and corporate companies moved offices here because the cost of living was low. Now the cost of living is 4-5x what it was and no one pays enough to buy a house here anymore unless you're bringing a salary from a bigger market with you. Just since COVID housing prices have basically doubled or tripled and they had gotten unaffordable prior to that already.

edit: If that's still the case 5 years from now, DM me because I might be looking to move and will need a new job.

we'll end up like canada... 40-60 year mortgages...

 

[Tin Roof]

Give it a few years, but all that housing doubles or triples in price and the salaries don't. That's what happened here. Lots of tech and corporate companies moved offices here because the cost of living was low. Now the cost of living is 4-5x what it was and no one pays enough to buy a house here anymore unless you're bringing a salary from a bigger market with you. Just since COVID housing prices have basically doubled or tripled and they had gotten unaffordable prior to that already.

edit: If that's still the case 5 years from now, DM me because I might be looking to move and will need a new job.

It'll happen in the large metro areas like Des Moines, CR, etc. There still will be some oasis areas out here.