Spinoff: people trying to "educate" without proof or logic

[Will12785]

So this is something I've been thinking about lately and the government clickbait thread made me decide to make a thread.

Lately, especially with the onset of the coronavirus I've seen a lot of back and forth about what people think is true, but without any actual evidence to support what they claim.

The coronavirus is probably the biggest one I have seen. On once hand we have a group of people who claim the virus is very dangerous and we must take drastic measures to mitigate it. They claim what has been done thus far is not working and the virus is making a comeback in a big way.

On the other side we have a group of people who claim that the virus is not really a problem at all. They dont think any extra precautions are required and that the increase in cases is due to the increased availability in testing. They think there is no need for extra protections and what we've done is all for not.

What I haven't seen is any factual information that either side is using to make these points. Studies of the virus seem very limited (at least I cant find any) and verified numbers on test availability and testing rates does not seem to be available, at least not consistantly between sources. So I dont understand how anyone could put any faith in these claims, from any point of view.

Another example, though much less serious but more funny is the feud between Mia Kahlifa and Bangbros. Both are making claims agaisnt each other, yet neither has provided any proof. Bangbros has gone as far as putting up a "facts" website, but on that site all they've done is post contradictory statements to the things Mia Kahlifa has said.

It makes no sense.

 

[ConwayMuddy]

I'll help..

 

[Benny]

I'll help..

You saved the thread!

 

[ConwayMuddy]

 

[FleshEater]

Plenty of information out there to sirch.

I look at cases and deaths, and all seem to be going in different directions. New cases are rising, deaths are declining. Look at state sites, CDC, WorldoMeter, whatever you want. The panic isn't justified by the information if you ask me. The CDC seems to be rather reasonable about it, the rest of the US is going ape shit.

Hell, I found on the CDC last night that in 2012-2013 138,092 Americans died from just pneumonia. Pretty sure the secondary infections are what's killing people during COVID-19 right now.

 

[Poopyface]

Every two weeks for the last two months I go into the hospital for medical treatment. I'm there about an hour, tended to by an MD and several RN's. Nurses deal with patients constantly and see and all sorts of diseases. So I asked the RN's what they think about Covid 19..All three agreed it's far worse that the typical flu they see every year. One with 30 years experience said the complications and how long they last is worse than any flu. They said to take precautions but no need for panic....I prefer to believe people with actual experience ...You are free to believe what you want
. Oh, I need to get tested before the hospital visit, love the swabs up my nose....

This.

My sis is right in the middle of this crap and tells me what's going on.

She is working long hours and night shift dealing with another increase in covid patients on her floor, which doesn't deal with them usually unless the rest of the covid reserved areas are at max capacity. She says it is a nasty virus, unlike any virus before it, and people are being stupid and infecting older folks who are at risk (the patients she gets the most).

And yeah the swab going 4 inches up my nose is a fantastic experience. I was tested last week and cleared so I was finally able to return to work and also see my mother who I've been keeping my distance from.

 

[evernoob]

I have posted evidence here, a very little bit. I have read a few dozen studies, some of them I've plowed through, looking up words the entire way, other's I've looked at the graphs, tables, Abstracts, and Conclusions that are available, either b/c of Paywalls or b/c I think that the study body information is not something I need to understand in detail.

I think COVID is a serious threat. It is not killing a lot of people, but it could. We can't be blase about this, and we should be using masks and taking other precautions.

So I have made a determination based on evidence. I am closer to the Democrat side on this, politically. Trump will lose the election if COVID even ticks up slightly. It could tick up a lot.

 

[Boss]

Trump will lose the election if COVID even ticks up slightly. It could tick up a lot.

Lose to who? Communism....Because you know communism is the puppeteer right? People are on to this shit. Besides, nobody wants some senile old fucktard running this mess. Especially a "Today's Democrat". You sir are WRONG.

 

[evernoob]

Lose to who? Communism....Because you know communism is the puppeteer right? People are on to this shit. Besides, nobody wants some senile old fucktard running this mess. Especially a "Today's Democrat". You sir are WRONG.

Wrong on what, my assessment of the election? Do you even watch the news?

Trump lost the popular vote in 2016, and won by the barest of margins. You think this election is in the bag? I wouldn't recommend that if you want Trump to win.

If COVID ticks up, this Election will be a one-issue mandate on COVID, and Trump will lose.

Screenshot this, sir.

 

[evernoob]

Lose to who? Communism....Because you know communism is the puppeteer right? People are on to this shit. Besides, nobody wants some senile old fucktard running this mess. Especially a "Today's Democrat". You sir are WRONG.

Texas could go Blue this year. I figured 2028 but things have rapidly acclerated.

 

[Boss]

Wrong on what, my assessment of the election? Do you even watch the news?

Trump lost the popular vote in 2016, and won by the barest of margins. You think this election is in the bag? I wouldn't recommend that if you want Trump to win.

If COVID ticks up, this Election will be a one-issue mandate on COVID, and Trump will lose.

Screenshot this, sir.

By your logic the news and polls are legit. A lot has happened over the last few years. People see through this shit. Barring a massive criminal voter fraud (...and it will likely happen) It will be a landslide. Mark my words.

Step back from the forest to see the trees.

 

[ev13wt]

By your logic the news and polls are legit. A lot has happened over the last few years. People see through this shit. Barring a massive criminal voter fraud (...and it will likely happen) It will be a landslide. Mark my words.

Step back from the forest to see the trees.

If you think about the level of stupid in the country, he will win. Every mask denier will vote him, it's the majority...

Sorry, intelligent and rational Americans. It's flushing and you're spinning. Good luck.

​​​​​​If ibb would vote, it's a done deal already.
How would ibb vote?

 

[Provience]

Will12785

on the 'rona, i honestly feel like i've gone to great lengths to provide sources for facts and information. University studies, hospital studies, historic studies, modern reporting multi-source data, international review bodies and the like.

to the point that i was told the other day that numbers and sourced information was propaganda and generalizations and illogical implications was the truth.

I'd love to help you out, but i really am not sure else to provide or how else to breech the subject. Fuck, i was told that short quips where "just social media bullshit" and longer statements with sources were "sermons that nobody would read"

i'm sure many people think i'm on the more extreme end of 'rona folks, but i really do consider myself a moderate. I believe that masks offer some level of benefit, I believe that healthy people would are otherwise expected to live through the year will die because of it, I believe that it really is dangerous and some posturing and measures are prudent.

at the same time, I believe we were intentionally misled at the onset, we have been continually misled for the sake of massive wealth transfer and currency manipulation, masks offer very real disadvantages that heavily outweigh their public benefit, the virus will absolutely spread and doing so among the most resilient population, 18-49 year olds without complications for example, is not a bad thing, just a thing.

 

[Boss]

If you think about the level of stupid in the country, he will win. Every mask denier will vote him, it's the majority...

Sorry, intelligent and rational Americans. It's flushing and you're spinning. Good luck.

​​​​​​If ibb would vote, it's a done deal already.
How would ibb vote?

Your media infused logic is showing.

If you take a step back you'll realize that most people in the USA Like what they have and don't want to lose it. This is LITERALLY what the vote is about this time around .... again .....on steroids. The media has been exposed. We are everywhere, unpolled, We are plenty, We are quiet....and we will all be voting or we will lose everything. We don't riot, we don't burn shit down, we don't give the finger to history, and most of all we don't believe social media or the news because we know the truth. It will be a landslide. I guarantee it. Enjoy your hole in the ground.

 

[Provience]

If you think about the level of stupid in the country, he will win. Every mask denier will vote him, it's the majority...

Sorry, intelligent and rational Americans. It's flushing and you're spinning. Good luck.

​​​​​​If ibb would vote, it's a done deal already.
How would ibb vote?

ya know what's stupid? most people are wearing masks.

i'd go so far as to wager that most of the people driving "the growth" in cases are people that support masks and generally would say they wear them.

prove me wrong, i'll wait.

masks are the wrong thing to focus on, even your constant trolling is a dangerous distraction, i really hope you don't do this outside IBB, because it is actually damaging.

 

[Wheelin66bronco]

When real situations come up, like the nurse that opened 60 test kits, re-sealed, and sent them in to be tested and all 60 came back positive for the Rona, I don't believe a fucking thing the CDC says.
The evidence just isn't there to support it being as bad as they say. Is it real, yes. Does it kill some people, yes. Should we all be deathly afraid of it, fuck no.

 

[ev13wt]

"deathly afraid"?
Hell no. What's this shit?

It's about protection of the weak and old.
But this system has been fucking them since forever, so why do anything different during Rona.
I get it.
​​​​​​
​​​

 

[DWT]

When real situations come up, like the nurse that opened 60 test kits, re-sealed, and sent them in to be tested and all 60 came back positive for the Rona, I don't believe a fucking thing the CDC says.
The evidence just isn't there to support it being as bad as they say. Is it real, yes. Does it kill some people, yes. Should we all be deathly afraid of it, fuck no.

It's really not a big deal to most. Other than laying in bed non motivated to move, the squirts and it hurting the back of my throat to take a deep breath for a few days it's been nothing. Yes it has killed a lot of the weaker people off but it is what it is. I caught it from my buddies kids being here visiting and I'll stay away from my parents who are in their mid 70s for another week but otherwise I think everyone should get it. Get things over with and see who's left standing.

 

[Will12785]

Will12785

on the 'rona, i honestly feel like i've gone to great lengths to provide sources for facts and information. University studies, hospital studies, historic studies, modern reporting multi-source data, international review bodies and the like.

to the point that i was told the other day that numbers and sourced information was propaganda and generalizations and illogical implications was the truth.

I'd love to help you out, but i really am not sure else to provide or how else to breech the subject. Fuck, i was told that short quips where "just social media bullshit" and longer statements with sources were "sermons that nobody would read"

i'm sure many people think i'm on the more extreme end of 'rona folks, but i really do consider myself a moderate. I believe that masks offer some level of benefit, I believe that healthy people would are otherwise expected to live through the year will die because of it, I believe that it really is dangerous and some posturing and measures are prudent.

at the same time, I believe we were intentionally misled at the onset, we have been continually misled for the sake of massive wealth transfer and currency manipulation, masks offer very real disadvantages that heavily outweigh their public benefit, the virus will absolutely spread and doing so among the most resilient population, 18-49 year olds without complications for example, is not a bad thing, just a thing.

I'm not saying that there isn't legitimate information available, I'm just saying that a majority of people aren't reviewing that information and have no frame of reference for what they are trying to get you to believe. I know that this place is a bit of an anomaly as members here really put the pressure on one another to make sure their information is accurate, but by and large most people are just making statements on major social media outlets. Its like meme's of celebrities with statements on them. Oh this writing is on a picture of Clint Eastwood, he must have said that!

 

[Provience]

I'm not saying that there isn't legitimate information available, I'm just saying that a majority of people aren't reviewing that information and have no frame of reference for what they are trying to get you to believe. I know that this place is a bit of an anomaly as members here really put the pressure on one another to make sure their information is accurate, but by and large most people are just making statements on major social media outlets. Its like meme's of celebrities with statements on them. Oh this writing is on a picture of Clint Eastwood, he must have said that!

completely agree. anything not presented as an obviously humorous intent gets questioned if it is from somebody i care about.

yes, i have few friends and am a blast at parties

 

[Provience]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

some easy facts to share with people is this link.

We are currently "Death from ALL causes" at 105% of expected. so about 67,298 deaths above the raw 100% expectation. granted, no year is ever at 100% and there will always be a range, but if we were to say that 100% of those excess deaths were only related to covid (and that is absolutely dishonest to say), then we would be able to strongly say that fully 50% of our "reported" covid deaths from CDC or Johns Hopkins, which reported 129,689 deaths on July 4th, were reasonably expected to expire from heart failure or pneumonia during this time period regardless.

so we have a fairly reasonable case for the upper limit being approximately 50% of reported deaths. It will be a long time before we are able to slice and dice how much of that all source bump is attributable to an increase in things like suicide, which is certain to be high during this period, or homicide, which cities like NY and Chicago are well documented as having risen.

Now, 70k deaths is a shit deal, no doubt, but it beats the brakes off 130k deaths.

 

[Provience]

http://www.91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/

another great place to play with facts. Interestingly enough, with the johns hopkins reported information, the USA now has a lower cumulative mortality rate, 4.2% than even the exalted Germany, 4.5%, who apparently no longer require masks because they have this so defeated

 

[Will12785]

completely agree. anything not presented as an obviously humorous intent gets questioned if it is from somebody i care about.

yes, i have few friends and am a blast at parties

We sound similar.

 

[ev13wt]

So I browsed the facebook on the liberal side for you.

​​​​​​I get what's clashing now.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

"deathly afraid"?
Hell no. What's this shit?

It's about protection of the weak and old.
But this system has been fucking them since forever, so why do anything different during Rona.
I get it.
​​​​​​
​​​

Are you a woman? No, seriously??? You act just like most woman I know when proven wrong. You whine like a little bitch and try to lay down a guilt trip to change people's minds because facts to support what you are saying are nonexistent.

Riddle me this... If we are so stupid, this country sucks, bla bla bla.... WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WANT TO COME HERE?

 

[Provience]

So I browsed the facebook on the liberal side for you.

​​​​​​I get what's clashing now.

thank you, this is what we are being bombarded with. sometimes in person, often on social media and regularly on main stream media. This is why it is so annoying when i say "the law is stupid" and people say "well i don't care about the law anyways, wear your damn mask or kill people"

This is why when i'm driving down the road and see every fucking traffic warning board on the freeway saying "stay home, save a life" and "limit travel is saving lives" and associated shit is extreme propaganda, i get annoyed.

 

[Rerock]

So I browsed the facebook on the liberal side for you.

​​​​​​I get what's clashing now.

OMFG that just pissed me off; so sick of BS like that.

Listen here fuckwit (that author), don't put fucking words in my mouth. I said what I said and I'm not passive aggressive so if that's what you "heard" then you got a problem.

Anything you'd say to someone like that would fall on deaf ears (you've already been judged), so the response is just a simple "eat shit".

 

[ev13wt]

Are you a woman? No, seriously??? You act just like most woman I know when proven wrong. You whine like a little bitch and try to lay down a guilt trip to change people's minds because facts to support what you are saying are nonexistent.

Riddle me this... If we are so stupid, this country sucks, bla bla bla.... WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WANT TO COME HERE?

So now you speak for the entire country yea?
Grand.
​​​​​

 

[Lawless]

Not beer flu related but related non the less.

This typically will come from a leftist. Currently it's all about "free" money, min wage increase etc. They will state something like "When we get a living wage we will be able to buy a house, car etc. be just like you" I'll offer an explanation about simple logic and how the world works and that likely they will probably be worse off than they are now.

I'll get a fuck you look and then they tell me to prove it.:rolleyes: I counter with "You are speaking factually and I have the counter point. It's up to you to prove it."

Every single time......

Get an education, usually yelling it out.

All right then, fucking educate me. Go find it out for yourself.

I don't even engage anymore I just laugh and walk away.

 

[ConwayMuddy]

Man did this thread get off topic..