SnowScout

[tsm1mt]

What used to be Robert's Secret Snow Scout

The last update, I was fighting the T19 transfer case adapter coming loose.

Well, I'm about to pull the Atlas AGAIN to clean those surfaces. I now have some GREEN Locttite coming (the sleeved fitting stuff, not the wick-into-an-assembled-part stuff) and just got some 1/8" thick cork gasket material this morning to see if I can make a thicker gasket, really get those studs to stay put, then some red loctite on the nuts (and top-locks?) and see if I can't get this to stop coming apart.

The studs are into the iron case, but the aluminum adapter indexes off the rear bearing, and there's a slight gap - which I believe is supposed to be taken up with the gasket - then I crank the crap out of the nuts and perhaps the whole face of the adapter is flexing - and ultimately unflexing after a day of abuse.

In January I went back up to Kalispell for SnowBash. I brought Justin in his Scout along this year.

It snowed most of the way there - we spent the day in 4-high in our tow rigs.. there and back..

 

[tsm1mt]

Went up to Tizers later that month.

Found a lot of dead fall, then some deep snow before we could make it to the lake. My oldest brought her skates along - she wanted to skate a high mountain lake, but it didn't happen.

Broke my winch controller near the end of the day - I was all set to buy a new 6HP motor and Albright solenoids only to discover I really did break it - the wires going into the connector finally failed when I yanked the controller out too violently - water had gotten into things and the winch was running itself when I pulled the connector out.

 

[tsm1mt]

Some tech - keeping the built 392 cool is a constant challenge.

I tried the fan clutch. I tried the Taurus fan. The Taurus wouldn't keep up on the highway - I had to hold it to 45 or so on the frontage road - would mostly do OK, but I had to remember to check my gauges and take a break now and then - and if the battery voltage sagged a little (when the alternator regulator was failing) it wouldn't keep up.

I've been running a Hayden 2705 fan clutch. I finally stopped to read up on what a "heavy duty" clutch does - which is primarily about 10% more RPM / better lock up.

I was also looking at various 18" fans to see if I could find one with more pitch - well, the go-to fan for the BBC crowd is a 2.25" pitch fan.

Doesn't seem like an upgrade.

The heavier duty clutch is longer, and space is always at a premium - and I had noticed that my fan was pretty deep into the shroud, so I ordered up this recent addition to the Hayden Catalog.

Hayden 2947

Same bolt pattern for the water pump and the fan.

10% more RPM and it is shorter, not longer.

It moved my fan back a touch closer to the pulleys - with plenty of room there - and away from the radiator.

The big downside - getting the bolts in to the water pump.

I bought a Dorman Water Pump stud kit - 23733 - and then had to shorten the studs so they would clear the spinning part of the clutch assembly.

It was still a pain to get it installed, but it's done.

So far, it seems to be an improvement.

 

[tsm1mt]

And a little more tech.. we went wheeling over Memorial Day weekend.

Just enough snow in spots to make it interesting for some, until we hit the big sidehill drifts that were impassable for most.

Me? I embarassed myself getting stuck in the same spots the stock JKs got stuck in.

How? I didn't air down, got stupid with the happy pedal, and I then heard the siren song of the ARB owner "Hey, only one front tire is turning!"

Problem is, I'm a Detroit guy.

Turns out, my Yukon Hardcore "fails locked" hubs didn't fail, but didn't lock either.

It seems one of the past trips through likely the Middlefork (on Labor Day) involved more water than the Scout liked.

I found the grease was not so greasy any more, and the heavy spring trying to push the drive gear out to engage with the other half couldn't overcome the friction.

Seems I'm overdue for some wheel bearing maintenance. :D

OTOH, it was so refreshing to finally spin wrenches working on something IN the new shop, rather than working ON the new shop.

The racer and the Snow Scout were the first vehicles inside.

 

[budget76]

awesome update Tom, and sweet shop. Have loved the stance of this rig since you picked up from Robert and started working on it

If i remember right Tigger was retired LONG ago. take it no racing since, even in a non-IH?

 

[ChiScouter]

Yea the shop looks great, congratulations. Sorry you are still having cronic teething issues with the Snow Scout. Is the racer still viable to be competitive with the march of technology over the years?

 

[tsm1mt]

Tigger was the old wheeler, and it was retired shortly after Little Devil, the old racer, was retired.

Tigger left in 2014, replaced by the Snow Scout in 2011.

Little Devil was retired in 2011, not fixed because I had this new chassis that just needed finished.

I don't seem to have any photos of Little Devil on the forklift (the same one that hauled Tigger away) but this was the day I stripped what I could from it before the forklift came.

But I can tell you those two cute little girls.. the oldest has her learner's permit, and while the youngest has a ways to go, she already has a '93 Mustang GT drop-top.. (that Dad has to drive and work out the kinks until then)

The new racer was sand blasted 4/2011 and put into the shop.. 10 years it has been occupying a bay.. time to get it out of there.

Part of my problem - in 2013 work had me in Cheyenne every other week, and about 900 hours of overtime (half unpaid). No time to wrench, but I did manage to buy the Yukon axle shafts and so forth.. :) 2014 was better somewhat, but the SnowScout "family wheeler" took priority over Dad's racer..

Yea the shop looks great, congratulations. Sorry you are still having cronic teething issues with the Snow Scout. Is the racer still viable to be competitive with the march of technology over the years?

Thanks, I'm sure it'll be a mess before long.. and the racer probably wasn't competitive when I started - it has an IH engine still. :D

The bigger question is whether I'm man enough to still drive it..

Back to some tech.. I pulled the Atlas, and I've pulled the adapter back off.

All six studs unscrewed, so none of them were properly captured to the case.

I did some measuring.

I learned a couple of things.

One, is the bearing (when installed, vs in this old picture) protrudes about .020" MORE from the face than the pocket in the adapter will accept.

Not a big deal since there's supposed to be a gasket in there, but maybe a big deal if all you do is use Right Stuff, which I did on the last attempt.

I also found that the bearing moves - at first, I thought I needed another ~0.100" vs the .020. I tapped the bearing, it seated a bit more, the figure because .020.

That makes me think that I actually want this to be as tight as I can get it, or at least as close to the .020" as I can.

I think the adapter housing helps keep the rear bearing seated.

(Note there's a snap ring around the bearing that keeps it from going in too far, and a snap ring on the output shaft that keeps the bearing from coming out too far, and both are installed - but the bearing (and shaft) can still walk a bit.

I had toyed with machining the pocket deeper in the adapter - and if I wanted to go no-gasket I might take .015" out or so.

Instead, I think I'll try a gasket again - 1/32 or .03125".

I have Loctite 620 - green goop for things like press fit bearings.

I cleaned the back of the case, brushed the stud holes with brake cleaner.. cleaned the studs again, so now to set the studs and wait 24 hours.

(Studs are 7/16 Gr8 at the top, and 3/8-NC Gr8 studs for the other four)

I think I'm going to use some flange nuts this time, and probably some RED Loctite.

I have a few concerns here.

If the gasket is too thin, the aluminum adapter is bending slightly.

Then you have the bearing walking and slamming into the adapter, working things loose.

So I need to minimize the bearing movement AND minimize the bending on the adapter housing AND keep these studs and nuts from coming loose in the process.

(The Atlas, by comparison, doesn't come loose)

Meanwhile, the bearings are packed, and I made a new tool to drive out the needle bearings in the spindle (turns out, my lawn tractor spindle shaft was just the right size after some clearancing - not sure why I saved it, but glad I did) and have the spindle ready to go back on.

 

[tsm1mt]

Studs re-installed with Loctite 620. Now for 24 hours to cure..

As you can also see, Snow Scout sh*t all over the floor.. and I hung some stuff to try to cut down on the echo.. the racer got moved forward a bit from the earlier photo.

Room to get three wide even when the lift goes in on the right of this one.

 

[budget76]

snow's coming quick Tom. How's the rebuild going?

 

[tsm1mt]

I did get it put back together, and it hasn't loosened up - but it still leaks.

I goofed somewhere in there and had put the Right Stuff on the gasket, but then after I started putting it together, realized I needed to do something differently (I forget what now) and pulled it back apart.

Then, instead of using a fresh gasket and fresh sealant, I thought, "I'll just use this that's already set" - but not adhered to both surfaces.

So it isn't loose any more, it just weeps more than I want still.

I'm debating on pulling it back out this weekend to prep for a run on 9/12, or leave it and top it off and .. fix it later?

It's a tight fit / PITA to pull and re-install with so many bits in the way.

 

[budget76]

you could try the ol' "brake clean, then smear a layer across the seam on the exterior" method. Worked on the rear diff of my C5 vette for a little bit. semi-hack, but sounds much better than yanking it out again

 

[tsm1mt]

I did the "brake clean, use Right Stuff as caulking" on the first go-'round. :D

I went into the shop intended to tear into it, but stopped myself and looked at it some more.

I tried an old trick - I rolled/folded a shop towel and shoved it into the gap between the adapter and the T19.

A few weeks later - no oil on it.

Still some oil on the floor - generally, just forward of the adapter.

Now to determine if the PTO cover is leaking (I think it is) and wicking down and around, or if it's the top cover (which it could ALSO be)

The difference is, the Scout hasn't moved in a while, so it shouldn't be oil splashing up onto the top cover and leaking around the perimeter that's leaking now.

Scout won't be moving for a little while longer - we poured the approach to the new shop today, so there's green concrete blocking the only door.

The good news is, the concrete should be cured enough before the 2-post shows up.. seems it's a 2-3 month wait on those.. but in the meantime, the girls want to go wheeling, so.. as soon as I can drive on it (and work doesn't get in the way)

 

[tsm1mt]

Oil continues to seep from the T19, but after sealing the top cover down, not like it was - so maybe a small leak to content with still, or maybe it's the PTO cover.

I do have a periodic problem with the T19 wanting to jump out of 2nd gear late in the day - works fine in the morning, but late in the day it starts getting cranky - third gear is OK, just second that pitches a fit.

I wonder if the transmission oil is getting too hot.

The exhaust crosses under the T19. I need to try to wrap it with header-wrap and see if that makes a difference.

Meanwhile, it gets used.

SnowBash in January

RIpped the passenger shock-mount off again in July - this time, I ground it down completely and started over.

Packaging forces the shock to hang off the side of the Ford tower.

Took the top off just before I removed the shock mount..

Ratchet straps were expedient, but I just picked up a 2000lbs hand winch from HF to mount on the wall, and have the pulleys and some rope strung so I can crank it up and down.

(I installed F250 SD U-bolts in the ceiling before it was insulated - there are 16' 2x8s on edge above the bottom cord of the trusses, and the U-bolts go around it all and through the ceiling)

 

[tsm1mt]

Now problems again.

On Saturday we headed up to McKelvey - one of our most difficult trails, and one that was closed last year becuase 5 bridges needed repaired - the FS thought they could think about starting on the repairs in 7 years, so instead we got some groups together, raised some funds, and in July we
replaced all 5 bridges in under 10 days. United we stand..

So we had our first run up the trail since the repairs.

It's a 90 minute drive from where we meet to where we unload, and it's a long day on the trail on a good day.

So I was trying to set a good pace with all of the Jeeps along with us - plus an EB, an EB buggy, a Taco, and a Bronco II.

Too good of a pace, I guess.

I made it up and over the biggest rocks at the first section of trail, but didn't make it to even the first of 5 bridges.

I stopped because I heard a noise at the LF, and realized that - unrelated to the recent repair of the RF shock mount, I now learned where the shiny nut I found on the trailer came from - not a left over, but it was the nut that used to hold the LF upper shock bushing in place.

No biggie, a quick removal of the lower shock bolt and we're back in business.

Not so fast, says my daughter in the back - the noise came from back here..

That noise happened to be the RR main leaf indicating it was done.

Broken main leaf.

Which slammed into the positive battery junction, tearing it from the frame.

Then, when I went to move out of the trail to do something about things, the leaf spring finished running into the post and - POOF - the 350A fuse failed.

So we were stuck on the trail for a bit.

A log of appropriate shape and size was procured and placed between the U-bolt plate and frame.

That resolved the biggest problem.

I then went about replacing the fuse on the batteries, only to find that I had no spares (fixing that) and I'd only been using one battery for a few years, since one of the SB350 Anderson connectors had a pin that wasn't fully seated.

In the midst of poking around at that, we pulled the crimps out of a few of the ones that were inside the housing. It seems the fine 2/0 wire I used didn't want to stay in place..

We eventually shoved enough wires together to get it back and going and off the trail, then I turned around and slowly made my way back to the trail head, then a few miles back to the trailer.

But the fun wasn't over - with the Andersons no longer tucked away and zip-tied in place, gravity eventually won out and they came apart again, pulling another crimp or two.

We wound up with a set of jumper cables from the rear battery around the cage and under the hood to the Ford solenoid.

FYI, this wasn't enough to start it - the voltage drop caused the FI to quit.

So.. we push started it. Twice

I was glad to get it on the trailer.

It's now in the shop, and the old leaf springs from Tigger are next to it, and tonight I'll get it back on the road.

Those springs I installed while in Moab years ago when Tigger broke a main leaf, and i had to find Marshall and buy a set of used springs - I never even flipped the center pin - the 5/16" nuts on the stock pins fit into the holes I had made for the upgraded 3/8 pins' round heads just fine - and I never changed it.

I did briefly look at my 4" SJ leaf springs, but they're still too much arch.

I'm looking ahead to what happens next time - I'm about out of stock springs.

I could run the 4" SJ springs if I raise the shackle mount to the top of the frame instead of the bottom, then some tapered shims to fix the pinion angle. That would keep the spring from going negative.

The other thought that keeps crossing my mind is to just link it and be done with it.

The exhaust would have to move, but with the ladder bar out of the way, that would open up options to move the muffer forward a bit.

The other gotcha is then figuring out where to mount coil springs without more body butchery - the shocks already go through the bed, which is fine, but I also already boxed it back in. I'm not sure there's room enough for a coil-over in there, but that might be the right answer.

That, or a 1/4 eliptical under the frame rail would be good for packaging, but ick..

More scheming and measuring after i get it so I can raise the lift without hanging by the shock..

 

[Opiebennett]

Thanks for doing the FS job for them! bummer on the spring / battery / shock problems.
Even if you have to pay real money, you know the fastest path to wheeling again is another set of leaf springs.

 

[Winchested]

I've noticed after the last couple wheeling adventures on the 40s my springs have gone negative. And are getting a bit of wave to them. Wonder how long they will last.

Rigs looking great!

 

[budget76]

Tom, seem to recall back when I was more active on the IH side lots of guys would get new stock height replacement springs made up with military wrap on the ends from one of the big spring suppliers, and i didn't think they were too $$. maybe that'd be a good get-back-going approach and the new steel would hold up better than the 40yr old ones you're pulling out of the mud somewhere?

 

[ihpartsjeff]

I've been running an old pair of Rancho's on Hideous(I think they were 4" lift??). They did really good but were starting to lose some lift so I just replaced them with some custom Alcan's with the orbit eye. I'll let you know how they do after I beat on them on next month's UA. Obviously not a cheap solution, but easier than linking the truck. If you are looking for used stock packs, we should still have a bunch at IHPA.

 

[budget76]

Jeff, don't want to derail Tom's thread but I need more info on that build You got a thread somewhere? Only seen the couple random pics here and there

 

[ihpartsjeff]

Jeff, don't want to derail Tom's thread but I need more info on that build You got a thread somewhere? Only seen the couple random pics here and there

No build thread, but I do have all the build pictures posted on our website under the Ultimate Adventure section. LINK

 

[tsm1mt]

I've been running an old pair of Rancho's on Hideous(I think they were 4" lift??). They did really good but were starting to lose some lift so I just replaced them with some custom Alcan's with the orbit eye. I'll let you know how they do after I beat on them on next month's UA. Obviously not a cheap solution, but easier than linking the truck. If you are looking for used stock packs, we should still have a bunch at IHPA.

Thank you, Jeff.

Those look nice, and I also saw you have some other options for progressive springs listed.

I dug around and found what I think is my last set of not-on-a-rig stock rear springs.

They were not on a rig, because they used to be on Tigger, and when Tigger was scrapped 10 years ago, I kept the axles.

Funny story about these springs - I picked them up in Moab after RMIHR, because... I broke a main leaf on Fins n' Things.

That was the day I met Marshall, the Scout guy of Moab, who had a set of springs, an impact, a pneumatic bumper jack, and a patch of dirt I could use.

I never even flipped the center pins, since I set my stuff up for 3/8" pins so the nuts on the stock 5/16 pins drop right in "upside down" - I drove home on the original bushings, and wheeled it for years after..

This time I did put new bushings in.

A little better appointed than Marshall's dirt lot.. I'm getting soft..

And after replacing both packs, so they'd even out - the ones I just took off had the big 3/4" thick flat overload, these do not.

 

[tsm1mt]

Hardtop lift got some refinement.

I tried 3/8 rope, but it stretched too much, so 1/8" steel cable.

and a HF winch

Just in time - the weather finally changed and it's cooling off. Topless weather is fading fast.

 

[tsm1mt]

Keeping trees alive is difficult here.. so it was time to replace two dead ones.

And then it got to sit outside while I cleaned up the mess in the shop, but my victory was short lived..

 

[tsm1mt]

I was actually looking at a broken bolt on the passenger fender - I need to weld a washer to the bottom so it can be retained again - when I noticed it was time to weld up the body mount (again?)

The top weld was cracked, too - there wasn't much holding the mount on. As we all know, not that uncommon when you abuse your Scout.

I bought a needle scaler to try to clean it up - not too bad.

The hydraulic transmission jack comes in handy for a lot of things..

So, too, did the welder outlet I put on the lift post.

There's more to do - I welded some last night, I'll do some more tonight - the power wire runs inside the frame, no need to melt the jacket with haste.

 

[tsm1mt]

Just because I slapped another set of springs in doesn't mean I abandoned the thoughts of linking.

Some 48" fiberglass driveway markers provide some food for thought.

~9-10" of separation at the axle would be easy.

48" is right at the e-brake cable retainers for reference.

The stock spring hangers are around 28" and my rock sliders around 32"

I'd be just over 40deg of separation on the upper links, and about 15deg on the lower.

The muffler has to move.

The rock sliders prevent me from putting the lower/outer link mounts outboard of the frame - it could go under, and from previous musings I think the link flat on the frame would be darn close to current "full bump" - it just means the hangers would hang.

The biggest outstanding question is where to put some coil springs - or did I make the current shock boxes in the bed big enough to accommodate some coil overs.

 

[budget76]

i know nothing about suspension design, but she's looking great Tom. I love the stance. Was worried you were gonna hurt the winch with that tree though

not to derail but curious: still talk to JetFXer? Was thinking about his Travelette build the other day, I've been away from the IH forums for years

 

[tsm1mt]

i know nothing about suspension design, but she's looking great Tom. I love the stance. Was worried you were gonna hurt the winch with that tree though

not to derail but curious: still talk to JetFXer? Was thinking about his Travelette build the other day, I've been away from the IH forums for years

That was the small tree. The other one I pulled is the only tree that has surived 20 years here - but it was 3/4 dead, just bigger. That one I couldn't lift entirely out and had to pull sideways before it fully cleared.

Now to go plant two small trees..

Robert is still around, though I haven't spoken to him lately. I haven't been that way lately, and I'm rotten for calling people.

 

[j20brett]

Not much to add, other than im stealing that traction bar design!

 

[tsm1mt]

Not much to add, other than im stealing that traction bar design!

Thanks.

Simple, effective. Not in the way (except perhaps the exhaust, but the Atlas is a bigger problem for that)

I ran one much like it on the old racer with good results.

Those are tractor heims in at least two spots.

The idea of using the pinion guard for the lower mount came from Ian and an episode of Extreme4x4 - or I probably wouldn't have bothered with the pinion guard at all.

 

[Cheepin]

Not to derail your thread. The scout is cool. But for those who don't know Marshal has since past away of cancer. I knew him and wheeled with him a couple of times. My buddy here in Co. was really good friends with him. I guess his wife finally got him to go to the Dr. and bam cancer. Past not long after. Good guy.