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Should I switch directions and retire/sell the Manche and build JK for 4500 Ultra4 Class?

tribal4krawler

tribal4krawler

DKA Motorsports
Joined
Jun 1, 2020
Member Number
1745
Messages
485
I guess this discussion basically belongs in Jeep, but meh. The Comanche barely has any jeep left right now, and the JK would be the same if I build it for 4500. So, as some of you know I built the 4659 Jeep Comanche back in 2019 from the ground up and raced it for 2 years. After that, my codriver exited the team due to getting married and life responsibilities so I decided to put it on the backburner and let the family race UTV's for a while and slowly convert the truck over to a 4500 Stock Modified Truck.

Last year I bought a Turbo S RZR and proceeded to blow a motor up in both races I entered. Now I'm thinking maybe RZR's aren't the answer for me, and I should look at the big trucks again. One of my main heartburns about the Comanche for 4500 is the Unibody. While we gusseted the hell out of it and tied the cage into it in many places (and it's still holding up perfectly with zero cracks), I don't think it's going to hold up in the MUCH higher speed 4500 class. I was over at my buddy Ken (who incidently built the red fullsize Bronco 4600 truck) shop and we were talking about Ultra4, and I jokingly said I should just swap my tons and ls and everything I've put in the Comanche over to my 2dr JK (the Boozecruiser) and race that. He stopped and looked at me and said that was a great idea. The more i think about it, I'm starting to agree. The JK frame is much more robust, much more aftermarket, probably more sponsorship opportunities, I have a ton of seat time in the JK already, etc etc etc. AND, I already have the vast majority of the parts I need.

What I'm thinking is this: The JK currently has Rubicon axles with 5.13s, elockers, RCV/Chromos, Trusses, Etc Etc, beadlocks (with 37s though) that I could swap into the Comanche, and put a stock 4.0 and aw4 back in and sell it to someone who's interested in racing 4600 in really a pretty dang solid truck. I'd use the D60/Sterling 10.25 from the comanche for the JK, stretching the rear back at least 10-12 inches and possibly the front forward a couple inches to get me somewhere around 108-110" wheelbase with a longarm 3 link front (which my d60 is already set up for) and a triangulated 4 link in the rear. I already have a PSC big bore steering box and hydro assist on the JK, so that'd be easy enough. The majority of the work would be the cage, and the motor/trans/tcase swap. What do you guys think? Am i missing anything that could potentially derail the build? What's funny is I've actually already wheeled a TON of the trails that we usually race at KOH in this same JK with stock wheelbase and 37s. The main reason for the stretch would be to make it not suck in the desert. I don't think it would be competitive against the top 4500 guys who are essentially racing 4400 cars with snap on skins but I don't really care. I have very little invested into this JK as it is, and I think it could only go up in value as it became a 4500 car. Am I an idiot?
cool shot outers jk.jpg
 
how do you blow up two RZR motors?
I have been flogging on the same motor for ten years
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:
how do you blow up two RZR motors?
I have been flogging on the same motor for ten years
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The first motor, I was an idiot and knew it was hot and kept going til it melted, the 2nd motor my wife had raced in her shortcourse car for a couple years and I blew it up within a lap (not hot, overrevving,etc)
 
In my opinion you are better off buying a finished and proven rig instead of trying to build one yourself. You are going to run into the same issues finishing the JK as you are having getting the Comanche done. Building something competitive for U4/KOH racing, no matter what the class, isn't as easy as slapping something together and calling it good enough if you expect it to go more than a few laps/miles before a DNF.

There has to be good cars out there for sale that just need a full race prep to be competitive on the cheap, relatively speaking. Find one of those and go have fun.
 
Yeah, it'd just require way more up front investment, if I had the cash it'd make sense but I'm not gonna sell the Comanche for enough to buy a ready to race car. With all of the parts I've already collected the only major $$$ investments would be the 3 link/4link, and the cage work
 
tribal4krawler said:
Yeah, it'd just require way more up front investment, if I had the cash it'd make sense but I'm not gonna sell the Comanche for enough to buy a ready to race car. With all of the parts I've already collected the only major $$$ investments would be the 3 link/4link, and the cage work
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You already have 99% of the parts to finish the Comanche and it's not done. Im not trying to discourage you at all, just giving you my advice from the outside looking in.... If you want to go racing and not just be a trail tampon get rid of some toys and pool all the money and time into one race car. Racing isn't a casual thing and the reason I didn't race my SxS last season. If I can't fully commit to it it's not worth tearing up un-prepped equipment and DNF'ing just to say I was there.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
You already have 99% of the parts to finish the Comanche and it's not done. Im not trying to discourage you at all, just giving you my advice from the outside looking in.... If you want to go racing and not just be a trail tampon get rid of some toys and pool all the money and time into one race car. Racing isn't a casual thing and the reason I didn't race my SxS last season. If I can't fully commit to it it's not worth tearing up un-prepped equipment and DNF'ing just to say I was there.
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As Marty said First class equipment is the only way to go
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
You already have 99% of the parts to finish the Comanche and it's not done. Im not trying to discourage you at all, just giving you my advice from the outside looking in.... If you want to go racing and not just be a trail tampon get rid of some toys and pool all the money and time into one race car. Racing isn't a casual thing and the reason I didn't race my SxS last season. If I can't fully commit to it it's not worth tearing up un-prepped equipment and DNF'ing just to say I was there.
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Extremely valid but... my war was whether I wanted to keep the unibody and brace it more or go full racecar with tube chassis which was pretty much where I was heading. Now with a JK chassis to work off which are extremely proven to last especially with cage work and gussetting, it's a different game. 100% to me, the Comanche is unique and bad ass. But in 4500, having a true stock mod "boozecruiser" JK against all the 4400s, might be kinda cool.
 
Furthermore, part of the appeal is being a cheap ass and figuring it out on a budget. If I put all my attention and money into one thing it's sure to fail.
 
Comanche is cooler (and more memorable after driving in reverse for so many miles at KOH) but JK route is probably more logical all things considered.

Grab a 4 door JK so the whole family can race with you:)
 
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What is tearing on the unibody? I'm just not sold on there being such a huge advantage for doing another jk.

I guess to put it differently, if you are going to commit to spec class [jk/yj whatever shit jeep on tubes] type of build then you have got to podium and win for anything to stand out. Sponsors, air time, any thing to possibly return something.

Doing it with a decked out other rig makes the pitch much easier to get noticed, easier to build fan base, easier to spot on TV, etc. If you DO podium, then fantastic bonus rather than must do.

But if there is no money either way, then whatever takes the least time :flipoff2:
 
At this point, nothings tearing on the Manche. But I think driving harder, along with harder trails (stock class bypasses the real hard stuff) will result in unibody fatigue. I do think in 4600 class it's robust enough to last a long time.
 
I vote run the Manche and make it work.

I think you're discounting the time and money cost you have into it and how much of that would need to be replicated on a JK even if the JK build is "cookie cutter"
 
Another vote for keeping the Manche. Minus ditching the leafs out back I don’t really see any other advantage to the JK. Another thing to consider is you’ve already raced it, you know it’s quirks and limitations. It’s going to take a whole season to learn a new rig. Besides the MJ is wayyyy cooler than any JK. :smokin:
 
I don't see a full body JK being competitive anymore in 4500. Sure you would have a solid rig but are wanting to race or just participate? If you want to race, keep the Manche. If you want to participate, build the JK. In your OP you said you think it would increase the value of the JK. I don't really see that. Right now the JK is a GREAT trail rig that has good street cred value. Start chopping it up to make it 4500 race ready only adds value to someone who wants to buy a race ready car that has been beat. Your customer base just dropped substantially. I think you'd be better off to sell the JK as-is and pick up a used 4500 car that you can fix up to your standards. Just my .02
 
Hmm interesting dilemma. Honestly I think once fully caged, unibody strength is much less of a factor because it has so much added rigidity from the tubework. Especially if already plated to the point where brackets aren't ripping off the sheetmetal. Plus IMO there's a bigger cool factor with the Comanche, just because they are rad and unique.

Although I do have to ask a harder question. What's driving you to rebuild everything from scratch to race in the 4500 class alongside 4400-ish cars that you knowingly won't be competitive against, versus 4600 that your Comanche is already built for and has a better chance of competing against all but the portal Broncos?
 
Byro said:
Another vote for keeping the Manche. Minus ditching the leafs out back I don’t really see any other advantage to the JK. Another thing to consider is you’ve already raced it, you know it’s quirks and limitations. It’s going to take a whole season to learn a new rig. Besides the MJ is wayyyy cooler than any JK. :smokin:
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If he was keeping the MJ engine/trans then I’d agree on knowing the quirks. But since he’d be changing engine/trans and suspension setups, the only real quirks he’d know is the tcase and general structure.
 
In racing....the best way to end up with a small mountain of money is to start with a huge mountain of money! I say screw all of it, just go wheel whatever you have or build what you want and have fun...
 
First off ... how fast can you drive that JK in reverse? :grinpimp:


I would totally rock the Comanche, it's closer to being ready, you have the experience in it, and you really stick out in that thing. On the other hand, not a lot of manufactures are making aftermarket parts for it, you'd likely get more sponsor help when seeking out JK parts. I'd still go Comanche though, I'd love to race that thing.

I have a friend thats raced ARCA for years, aside from his car/truck/team he had a whole other 'race team in a box' that he'd rent out to rookies for the season. I can't imagine the paperwork, but if you choose to go the JK route maybe you can rent the 'manche to somebody looking to get into the sport.
 
I went from a full frame 4Runner to a full square tube cage race car. I choose a FJ45 because Land Cruisers are my passion. You need to decide what you want, but I would not start over with a production frame from Jeep or anyone else. I would either build or buy a 4500 chassis from someone who knows. It is a lot easier to package things starting from scratch.

My vote is build a subframe under what you have if you feel you need strength. It is a great looking rig and it stands out in the crowd.
 
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