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Shortened 2001 Silverado w/ 40s, Doubler, 14FF, & D60

DMANbluesfreak said:
I was jokingly referring to the Reid Super Kingpin setup, which does require new inner-Cs. I wasn't aware of the Crane ones.

None of the factory style beefed up knuckles from Reid, Crane, or Solid will help me here by the way. They all have the same steering arm dimension as factory (Crane also only makes the high steer version for Ford).

You're right - the GM knuckles crossed my mind, but I'd need new spindles, knuckles, AND 2500hd brake mounting brackets. Would definitely like to keep the scope creep in check.

I'm not sure I follow what you mean about the tabs being added to the DOM tied to the stock knuckle. Do you have a picture of what you're describing? I'm not opposed to something like that.
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I Google and try to find it.

Imagine the ~1.5" Dom straight between the stock knuckle point and the high steer arm.

Have small tabs coming off the front.


Or, nut up and clearance the ox cover. :flipoff2:

OK, I'm really not sure how the shift fork is in there. :homer:

From what I've seen most aftermarket covers stick out way too far caugh ruffstuff caugh
 
Small tabs off of round DOM held in place by one bolt seems like a recipe for disaster to me, personally. Wouldn't they just twist?


1646363762059.png

Looking at the inside of this OX locker front cover... maybe I can modify it for half an inch of clearance. Granted, this isn't the inside of a D60 cover... I need to pull the cover off and take a look. If I chop a small piece out and put a section of 2" DOM in it's place (not a full half circle... maybe 1/4 circle), there may be JUST enough clearance.

If I fuck it up, a new OX cover is only $140 :laughing:
 
Actually... here's a sectioned D60 cover from a tutorial video they have. Looks like there's probably enough clearance to gain some millimeters. Again - need to pull the cover and see. I do know you can weld to these covers without issue, seen a couple with hydro assist tabs welded to them.

1646363876726.png
 
DMANbluesfreak said:
Small tabs off of round DOM held in place by one bolt seems like a recipe for disaster to me, personally. Wouldn't they just twist?
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Absolutely, you'd have to add something to keep it from twisting, a plate under the high steer arm?

DMANbluesfreak said:
ooking at the inside of this OX locker front cover... maybe I can modify it for half an inch of clearance. Granted, this isn't the inside of a D60 cover... I need to pull the cover off and take a look. If I chop a small piece out and put a section of 2" DOM in it's place (not a full half circle... maybe 1/4 circle), there may be JUST enough clearance.

If I fuck it up, a new OX cover is only $140 :laughing:
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Thats what I pictured.

DMANbluesfreak said:
And here's a D44 cover inside. Maybe less room than I thought. We'll see I just need to pull the cover and look.
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I think being above center would be key, like you said, only fractions of an inch to gain at center. Once nice thing about the double shear/artec type arms is you can put the tie rod wherever you want. So right up under the leafs?
 
Ok I dug in my photos. And dug. And dug. The Dana 60 cover should have enough room to clearance - just need to make sure I have ring gear clearance.

1646367272451.png


Without relocating the tie rod with fancy steering arms, this is the best path forward. EMF Heims, high strength alloy DOM Tie Rod (do I have to TIG weld the bungs into 4340? Any other strong alloys?), clearanced diff cover.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Absolutely, you'd have to add something to keep it from twisting, a plate under the high steer arm?



Thats what I pictured.



I think being above center would be key, like you said, only fractions of an inch to gain at center. Once nice thing about the double shear/artec type arms is you can put the tie rod wherever you want. So right up under the leafs?
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It's PRETTY damn close to the leaves as it is. I don't even think I could mount to the top of the low steer steering arms and miss the leaves.

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That said... now that I'm looking at this picture, I wonder if I could do high steer with the tie rod mounted to the bottom of the high steer arms (rather than the top). This would eliminate the need to notch the frame and move the steering box. Moreso than notching the diff cover, this might be the actual easy button. (Still need to move the Hyro Assist ram, but that's not awful.)
 
Many options. I looked at @mgrohe 's truck (picture) and he's running high steer, tons of clearance above the leaves. I think it might work, but I need to measure.
 
DMANbluesfreak said:
Many options. I looked at @mgrohe 's truck (picture) and he's running high steer, tons of clearance above the leaves. I think it might work, but I need to measure.
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Interesting, your leafs look a lot different than mine did when I was setting up my high steer, I'm pretty sure I had room to go on top of the knuckle if I wanted. Maybe the difference between gm and Ford knuckles? Castor also would be a factor.

The bummer was that I couldn't fit the tie rod under the arms, the arms were right where I needed the hiems to be. Hopefully you have more room than me and can go under.

The nice thing about those artec arms is that you can put the holes wherever you want. Moving the tie rod forward or back can help snake it into the perfect spot. Just keep throw in mind when mounting your assist ram.

If you stay low steer and want to go chromo, the easy way is to just order the tie rod already built and heat treated. If you build it yourself, you'll have to find chromo wire/filler and a heat treat shop. Non heat treated will be a little better than mild, but HT will be even bettah.
 
Right. Obviously I wouldn't need Chromo if I went high steer. Let me figure out what my options are and go from there. Thanks for the insight.
 
Keep in mind that moving your pivot points out from the knuckle will limit your steering as well if you keep the same hydro assist ram.
Are you hoping to be close to 45°steering?
How far do you need to move the tie rod out from stock to clear the cover?
What is the stock tie rod mount hole to center of pivot on your knuckle in inches?
Did to you have 45° steering before the ox locker?
I think the artec arms are the only ones that will work for you. You'll have to locate the tie rod mount hole on your own.
 
Sterlingfire said:
Keep in mind that moving your pivot points out from the knuckle will limit your steering as well if you keep the same hydro assist ram.
Are you hoping to be close to 45°steering?
How far do you need to move the tie rod out from stock to clear the cover?
What is the stock tie rod mount hole to center of pivot on your knuckle in inches?
Did to you have 45° steering before the ox locker?
I think the artec arms are the only ones that will work for you. You'll have to locate the tie rod mount hole on your own.
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This really is a non-issue in my opinion. I admit my hydro ram was already the limiting factor on steering angle when I had offset tie rod ends. If I move the pivot point out further I'll look into a 10" ram and put the appropriate dead stop inside of it to make it align with my steering stops.

Why are the Artec arms the only ones that will work? I assume most companies would make me blanks if I asked for them (probably with extra lead time since they're not a stocked part, though).

YotaAtieToo said:
The assist ram could be mounted to the stock knuckle point if the tie rod moves.
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Great point! That would make packaging much easier - I'll keep it in mind. Technically it does put more stress on the passenger knuckle (if the passenger tire is in the air and I'm trying to steer the driver tire, at least), but that's why I've got the knuckles reinforced. :grinpimp:
 
DMANbluesfreak said:
This really is a non-issue in my opinion. I admit my hydro ram was already the limiting factor on steering angle when I had offset tie rod ends. If I move the pivot point out further I'll look into a 10" ram and put the appropriate dead stop inside of it to make it align with my steering stops.

Why are the Artec arms the only ones that will work? I assume most companies would make me blanks if I asked for them (probably with extra lead time since they're not a stocked part, though).


Great point! That would make packaging much easier - I'll keep it in mind. Technically it does put more stress on the passenger knuckle (if the passenger tire is in the air and I'm trying to steer the driver tire, at least), but that's why I've got the knuckles reinforced. :grinpimp:
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Just making sure you're thinking of everything:flipoff2:

I guess I meant that style, blanks, should have been more clear. there likely are other companies that sell them that way.

That would work, but on 40's i wonder if it would/ could cause cracking even with the reinforcement? Not a bad idea though!
 
DMANbluesfreak said:
This really is a non-issue in my opinion. I admit my hydro ram was already the limiting factor on steering angle when I had offset tie rod ends. If I move the pivot point out further I'll look into a 10" ram and put the appropriate dead stop inside of it to make it align with my steering stops.

Why are the Artec arms the only ones that will work? I assume most companies would make me blanks if I asked for them (probably with extra lead time since they're not a stocked part, though).


Great point! That would make packaging much easier - I'll keep it in mind. Technically it does put more stress on the passenger knuckle (if the passenger tire is in the air and I'm trying to steer the driver tire, at least), but that's why I've got the knuckles reinforced. :grinpimp:
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If you go high steer, I'd think about some aftermarket knuckles. High steer puts a lot more stress on the top of the knuckles.

I got my solids for like $400 shipped. Then sold my stockers for $250. I'm sure they're up a bit, but i don't know why anyone wouldn't just do them if they're buying high steer arms anyway.
 
Is there room for the tie rod behind the axle?
 
DMANbluesfreak said:
My knuckles are heavily plated, so not sure it's necessary, but good looking out.
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Then they'll be worth more to sell :flipoff2:

They still only have 4 studs, solid has 6 studs and keyways.

With the artec type arms tieing into the stock knuckles, you should be good. I just like overkill in the steering/knuckle department.

I got mine here. They used to be $420, but I think Dave's does a 10% off for pbb? Plus no tax and free shipping.

davesoffroadsupply-com.3dcartstores.com

SA0760FKPK: Solid Axle Industries Pair of D60 Kingpin Outer

davesoffroadsupply-com.3dcartstores.com
 
DMANbluesfreak said:
Same issues as in front of the axle high steer, only now I have to miss the oil pan.
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Is there room under your oil pan for up travel with high steer behind the axle? I figured if there was room you could just run your current tire rod behind the axle taking the ram with it and only needing to buy steer arms and fab a mount for your ram.
 
Dan said:
Is there room under your oil pan for up travel with high steer behind the axle? I figured if there was room you could just run your current tire rod behind the axle taking the ram with it and only needing to buy steer arms and fab a mount for your ram.
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You can see the oil pan in the pics. It doesn't look like it would clear at ride height, much less full bump.

Rear tie rod only worked on tall ass trucks, or when the front end was way forward. I used to think it was the way to go, but it's pretty damn impossible with a low rig.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
You can see the oil pan in the pics. It doesn't look like it would clear at ride height, much less full bump.

Rear tie rod only worked on tall ass trucks, or when the front end was way forward. I used to think it was the way to go, but it's pretty damn impossible with a low rig.
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I looked on page 2, post 31 and it looked like there might be a chance of it fitting behind the axle on the bottom of high steer arms. But really I can't tell from the pics.

I was able to fit it on a truck with the axle only moved a little bit further forward and sitting about the same height. Different axle, engine, and rig though. Just though it was worth looking into.
 
Dan said:
I looked on page 2, post 31 and it looked like there might be a chance of it fitting behind the axle on the bottom of high steer arms. But really I can't tell from the pics.

I was able to fit it on a truck with the axle only moved a little bit further forward and sitting about the same height. Different axle, engine, and rig though. Just though it was worth looking into.
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Every rig is different. But it's typically hard to package. We did a scout years ago, and a DE ram on a 22re jeep buggy thing.
 
Well I checked for the under-arm high steer clearance today and unfortunately because my leaf packs are so thick, it won't work with my Sky high steer arm, which has a decent amount of rise. Check the jack handle in the image below - sitting on the leaf spring, it's touching the underside of the HS arm. Most arms on the market nowadays are even lower because they're springless, too.

1646601394631.png


So I think the long term solution is to go normal high steer. I'll snag some lower profile arms and build from there. The sad reality is that there's a lot to do to get to this point and while I could probably hammer it out in a weekend, I'm looking to break ground building a garage in early April, so if I wait to get parts - it's cutting it close. What I'll probably do to make the truck wheelable as-is is grab another set of the 1-ton offset TREs (which, mind you, lasted me 8 or 9 years the first go-around) and finish out 2022. In the winter when I've got a heated garage, I'll work on the new steering setup.

I've got to do the following:
  • Notch the frame on both sides (yes, the passenger side notch will need to be widened up)
  • Move the steering box forward (and extend the steering shaft)
  • Redo the sway bar links (or move the sway bar mounts on the frame)
  • Redo the hydro assist ram
  • Replace the knuckles with Solid or add a 5th stud to my modified knuckles
  • Replace the z-bend drag link with a straight one (the steering box would be lower so it would be more parallel)
  • Replace the tie rod with a shorter one (technically I could shorten my current one, but it's been bent and straightened enough times I'd rather start fresh anyway)
  • Redo the bump stop mounts (technically not required, but it's a good opportunity to do this and gain a tiny bit of uptravel)
Behind the axle isn't really any less work (except I suppose the steering box could stay put) but it gets DAMN close to the oil pan by my estimations (I'd need actual steering arms to really gage things), so I'd rather not chance it.

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It sounds goofy, but would having the tie rod in front of the drag link help? It looks like that's how it's kinda oriented now anyway.

The only tricky part is that you loose clearance vs gaining clearance at full lock.

One good thing about going high steer is that you could probably get away with a much smaller OD tube.

Although, looking at those pics, I think you could fit a tie rod under the leafs and above the knuckles using hiems without any spacers.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
It sounds goofy, but would having the tie rod in front of the drag link help? It looks like that's how it's kinda oriented now anyway.

The only tricky part is that you loose clearance vs gaining clearance at full lock.
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Not sure I understand what you mean here. Most/all high steer arm setups are designed for the tie rod to be behind the drag link. If I put the drag link in the rear hole on the HS arm, I lose a TON of steering force and travel on the steering box (and likely go from ~3.5 turns lock-lock to 2.0 turns lock/lock). Maybe I misunderstand here. By clearance did you mean travel? I think we might be on the same wavelength, if so.

YotaAtieToo said:
One good thing about going high steer is that you could probably get away with a much smaller OD tube.

Although, looking at those pics, I think you could fit a tie rod under the leafs and above the knuckles using hiems without any spacers.
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Agreed, I could probably go to 1.25" tube for the tie rod if I wanted. I don't think that extra 1/16" lost in diameter is worth it to need to buy a new tie rod clamp, though - so I'd probably just stick with the 1.5" tube.

As for running the tie rod on the top of the knuckles (under the leaves), it must be an optical illusion. As it sits, the top surface of the knuckle arms is about flush with the bottom of the leaf pack. No room for even the tiniest tie rod.
 
DMANbluesfreak said:
Not sure I understand what you mean here. Most/all high steer arm setups are designed for the tie rod to be behind the drag link. If I put the drag link in the rear hole on the HS arm, I lose a TON of steering force and travel on the steering box (and likely go from ~3.5 turns lock-lock to 2.0 turns lock/lock). Maybe I misunderstand here. By clearance did you mean travel? I think we might be on the same wavelength, if so.
Click to expand...

If you're buying blank arms, you can do whatever you want. To me it looks like your drag link hole is closer to the king pin currently than the stock knuckle hole.

There is also different length pitman arms


DMANbluesfreak said:
Agreed, I could probably go to 1.25" tube for the tie rod if I wanted. I don't think that extra 1/16" lost in diameter is worth it to need to buy a new tie rod clamp, though - so I'd probably just stick with the 1.5" tube.

As for running the tie rod on the top of the knuckles (under the leaves), it must be an optical illusion. As it sits, the top surface of the knuckle arms is about flush with the bottom of the leaf pack. No room for even the tiniest tie rod.
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1 1/2 - 1 1/4 is 1/4:flipoff2: so 1/8 radius.

I was more talking about how you were thinking about 1 3/4 to 2", but now you can probably go 1 1/8 to 1 1/4. But ya, if you can make the current one work.
 
Ah, yeah I think that's also an illusion - the drag link is currently in the furthest hole from the KP. Agreed with blank arms I can do whatever I want. I'll also consider a longer pitman arm too. This is a good opportunity to optimize everything.

And derp - yes 1/8" radius. Still a tiny amount of space claim. I definitely don't feel the need to go to a larger diameter if the tie rod is tucked up out of the rocks. If I'm hitting a high steer tie rod on things, I need to reevaluate my having a full-bodied rig :flipoff2:
 
DMANbluesfreak said:
Ah, yeah I think that's also an illusion - the drag link is currently in the furthest hole from the KP. Agreed with blank arms I can do whatever I want. I'll also consider a longer pitman arm too. This is a good opportunity to optimize everything.
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You're missing what I'm saying.

The drag link isn't sticking way out past the stock knuckle. You have like 10* of steering.

I'm not saying that having them flipped is the way to go, I'm just saying that you can put all that stuff wherever you want. Often people just use whatever arms with whatever box and usually end up with less steering angle than they could have.
DMANbluesfreak said:
And derp - yes 1/8" radius. Still a tiny amount of space claim. I definitely don't feel the need to go to a larger diameter if the tie rod is tucked up out of the rocks. If I'm hitting a high steer tie rod on things, I need to reevaluate my having a full-bodied rig :flipoff2:
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