Short Barreled Upper Illegal?

[BDK]

If I acquired a complete SBR upper receiver, but it was not attached to any lower. Is it illegal to possess the SBR upper receiver without a tax stamp? Or, just plain illegal in California?

To me, it's not a complete functioning rifle, so legal. With the recent issues with people buying wall hooks that the BATFE decided were automatic trigger assemblies, I guess it would not be a long stretch of the imagination.

I miss the days when you could own stuff just to have it, without being a criminal, like M4 trigger assemblies, etc. You could pick them up at gun shows for $25. Won't work in a unmodified no third hole lower, but it was just nice to have them in the AR junk box.

 

[total newb]

Depends on length and other spec decisions.

A barrel lenght on its own is not illegal. Ar pistols are a thing but you have to build it to be a pistol which comes with its own rules and reg.

 

[animator]

Uppers with barrels of any length aren’t regulated in any way that I’m aware of.

 

[total newb]

I have a shorty with no restriction on shipping or questions of legality, because pistols are legal.

But as i said, how you build it out will determin if its a pistol or sbr.

While the atf points system is not applicable its is esentialy your best list of where it will come out in its classification.

With all the talk of shouldering/stocks/braces its one of the things that will make it a sbr not pistol. The same gun with a conventional stock is a sbr, but a brace in a fixed position less than 13.25" from butt to trigger can be a pistol.

 

[Clb]

Prk and screwsome???
The cal doj still aint defined
"Assault Weapon " last I checked.
And so I got nothing to be of help...

 

[BDK]

Uppers with barrels of any length aren’t regulated in any way that I’m aware of.

I think that was the answer to my question.

Depends on length and other spec decisions.

A barrel lenght on its own is not illegal. Ar pistols are a thing but you have to build it to be a pistol which comes with its own rules and reg.

Just the upper, complete. I saw a few for sale and it got me wondering. From what I have understood, an upper is just a book end unless its attached to a lower.

 

[total newb]

Correct
The catch can/could/will be if there is a lower for it.
No normal person would have just a complete ar upper and no other ar parts. If there is a loose lower they can/could/will argue its was for that upper and is a ??? even though its not connected. Even if you have a complete convetional/legal ar they can/could/will still argue that you could swap it on and now its xxx which is felony.

I have a buddy with a fa ar trigger, he bought it and said the deal is that its nbd if you dont have anything to put it in. But once again, who has ar stuff with no ar.


So afaik there is nothing that says a pistol built lower cant be on a long rifle upper. So i see it as make your lower pistol legal so they cant say its not legal if you put the short upper on it.

 

[total newb]

iM talking about cya and not giving them a reason to fuck with you.

Heres some reading but basic jist is
Short barrel but conventional stock = sbr
Short barrel no stock no fore grip = pistol

AR Pistol vs SBR - What's the difference?

Want to know the difference between an AR15 pistol and SBR? Got your answer and context right here.

www.5dtactical.com

If you can stomache no stock at all or a stock locked in short 13.25" to trigger i would keep it that way at all times just to cya.

In the points system they also listed overall lbs/wieght as a determining factor.
Things like dots/lpvo/and scopes will also say sbr not pistol.

 

[total newb]

Sbr

Pistol

 

[total newb]

Again, the points system is not applicable but this is how they were judging the differences.

This is a interactive check list to run through and see where you fall as of its time of posting.

Pistol Point Calculator | GOA

The only no compromise gun lobby in Washington

www.gunowners.org

/

Here is the brace check list

Here is the sbr/pistol check list. And it does appear to be different than some of the info i gathered a bit ago

 

[Toreadorranger]

You can be charged with Constructive Possession. Say your lowers all had stocks or they were all sold initially as rifles, they could charge you with Constructive Possession as they could claim your intent was to assemble a SBR. If it holds up in court is a different conversation.

 

[Clb]

Ahhhh
Life in the prk
A free aman shouldn't be bothered

 

[BDK]

Never heard of a score sheet for guns before. Thanks for that. I might buy a parts kit and leave it unassembled. Or, I might not, probably not.

Waiting for the SC decisions to play out in any case. Watching infringement laws fall one after another lately.

 

[Toreadorranger]

Never heard of a score sheet for guns before. Thanks for that. I might buy a parts kit and leave it unassembled. Or, I might not, probably not.

Waiting for the SC decisions to play out in any case. Watching infringement laws fall one after another lately.

The sheets were the original proposed rule for stabilizing brace equipped pistols, at this point they are not a thing other than a reference to try to understand what the ATF was intending. I wouldn't put any stock in them.

My recommendation if your worried would be to have a pistol or unassigned lower on hand so if anything ever came of it, you would have a valid reason that isn't a secret SBR.

 

[PAE]

This should help when it comes to constructive possession, not that California has the same exact regulations but the same as one cannot 2nd guess the BATFE one can also not 2nd guess the California DOJ, as they will do what ever they need to get a charge and or conviction.

There is also a definition about a receiver that one needs to understand.

Ill go into that later.

 

[BDK]

I like the last line of that, where they have to prove you intend to violate the NFA. They don't really have to prove it here, they just have to convince a jury who has no knowledge of firearms, that what you did is illegal. That would be easy here, in the land of the uninformed expert.

I think I'll wait until I get out from behind the iron curtain.

 

[aron82]

Generally constructive intent is a tack on charge. You have done something else and they are attempting to throw the book at you.
Up to you though. I don't live in komifornia.
Brace thing is going to be litigated for years.
I've removed mine in accordance with all applicable laws.

 

[Roc Doc]

I like the last line of that, where they have to prove you intend to violate the NFA. They don't really have to prove it here, they just have to convince a jury who has no knowledge of firearms, that what you did is illegal. That would be easy here, in the land of the uninformed expert.

I think I'll wait until I get out from behind the iron curtain.

Sure, the jury would probably have no idea of how fucked up the ATF is, and even less understanding of their rules, BUT, that is the job of the attorney, to explain those rules and to make the prosecution prove intent...a tall order for the prosecution unless the defendant has self incriminated somehow, like that stupid Marine.

 

[Toreadorranger]

Sure, the jury would probably have no idea of how fucked up the ATF is, and even less understanding of their rules, BUT, that is the job of the attorney, to explain those rules and to make the prosecution prove intent...a tall order for the prosecution unless the defendant has self incriminated somehow, like that stupid Marine.

You sure you want to bet your freedom on 12 idiots?

 

[Weasel]

What about screwing a long extension on it so it's no longer a short anything. Silver solder, pin, tack weld on until your ready to do what's with it.

 

[total newb]

People pin'n weld all the time. Defeats the point of the shorty but makes it legal.
Also depends on how short you wana go. Barrles are available from 4.5" - 24". You get a 7 or a 10 youre gona need a 6-8" 1p md.

I really really liked that funky 22lr barrel usmcdoc14 had. It was a 10-12' bore with a flared forskin shroud to make 16". Then you threaded a mid length surpressor and it only stuck out about 1-2".

 

[Roc Doc]

You sure you want to bet your freedom on 12 idiots?

Let's just say I'm not worried about being in that situation.

 

[Ebs]

As it is, It's just parts, it's not a sbr, it's not a pistol, it's just assembled parts. You're gonna have to really fawk up big time to be sitting in a court room with a thought crime charge for some parts they found in your closet.