Sharp Motorsports 4600 Class Early Bronco

[Snowracer]

What is your time worth? Getting the right length inner is quick/easy. Sell the others

This for sure, as i would not be spending that much time and work on a 44. sell them shafts get the right ones and spend that time building a 60 or a 609 for down the road

 

[FC4X4]

A couple hundred dollar education... another vote for the right shafts.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Ha, thanks for the input everyone; I am surprised everyone is telling me to go the easy route and buy new shafts


Now the part I forgot to include in my previous post, it looks like the new axle shafts run into bind at about 33-34º (as best as I can tell with my cheapo magnetic angle finder). I am not sure what steering angle the axle will be capable with the 8" stroke of the ram, but I am curious if others have had issues with aftermarket shafts binding? I am not really trying to get anymore steering angle than stock here, so it seems like the shafts shouldn't have issues binding. I suppose I ought to grab one of the stock shafts and see where it binds.

 

['84 Bronco II]

While I was comparing different tubing sizes and their relative strengths, I noticed that Jesse Haines isn't running a truss on his front axle and it is holding up even with the additional leverage of the portals. I decided to reach out to him and see if he would give me the skinny on the tubing size he was running in his axles. He told me he is running 3.5" OD 3/8" wall tube and that his Roxor weighs 4,400 Lbs compared to the rest of the 4600 class where "most are well over 5,000 Lbs." Stock weights for Roxors are listed as ~3,000-3,400 Lbs. so it looks like he added about 1,000-1,400Lbs. Assuming a similar weight gain for my rig, that would put me in a comparable ball park.

This has me leaning towards re-tubing my axle since it looks like it would provide enough strength to survive without a truss. The benefits of not running a truss are that it would give me more clearance for compression travel while keeping the rig low and less chance of warping the housing. I am not committing to anything just yet, but I figured I'd share some of my thought process at the moment.

 

[arse_sidewards]

What differential housing is he running? D44 differential casting itself isn't exactly weak but it's no solid block of iron either. Maybe re-tube and then do a very simple truss only on the bottom side of the diff 6" in either direction?

 

['84 Bronco II]

What differential housing is he running? D44 differential casting itself isn't exactly weak but it's no solid block of iron either. Maybe re-tube and then do a very simple truss only on the bottom side of the diff 6" in either direction?

He is running fabricated Trail Gear housings with 8" Toyota centers I believe. I certainly would plan on gusseting the "C"s and center section, but it would be nice to not have to fit a full width truss under the frame rails and oil pan.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Install new tubes (or cut and sleeve, whatever) with thick wall, gusset C's and pumpkin and call it good. KISS

 

['84 Bronco II]

I haven't updated the thread in a while, but unfortunately nothing too exciting has been going on lately. I got the body stripped down and separated from the frame, and the frame is just about fully stripped, just have the engine and front axle to take off now. I need to go buy another engine stand because the two I already have are occupied I have been waiting for the tubing I ordered for the front axle for about a month, but it should arrive tonight if the UPS tracker isn't lying.

I used some scrap 2" OD .120 wall HREW I had sitting around to brace the door openings and tail gate opening.

I don't think the body mount bolts had ever been removed in this Bronco's 47 years of existence which made removal a much bigger pain in the ass than it should have been. Fortunately I had my Miller wrench on hand to save the day when all else failed.

I ended up cutting the core support off since I didn't have any good pieces of scrap metal to try and brace it, and the metal that was there needs to be replaced anyway due to fatigue cracking and the torch-cut holes that were presumably prior rust removal. Here is the body separated from the chassis:

 

['84 Bronco II]

Rear portion of the frame completely stripped:

Removing the tranny and transfer case with the infamous orange straps of death

Just the front left to finish:

To follow up on one of my previous posts where I was concerned about the new 4340 shafts binding, I measured the steering angle on the axle housing with the steering stops bottomed out and it only has ~30º of steering throw. Based on that, the 33-34º bind angle of the shafts should be fine. I had no idea the steering angle on a stock Dana 44 housing was so bad

I also called around to get estimates for sand blasting the frame and tub since I hate cleaning parts and was quoted $500-$800. I am debating whether it is worth it or not, but it would be nice to work with clean metal.

 

['84 Bronco II]

I finally got the tubing in to re-tube the Dana 44. I ended going with some 3.5" OD .375" wall DOM.

I guess I got lucky and got an extra strong piece of DOM; 100,105 PSI yield strength Minimum spec yield strength is 65,000 PSI for reference.

 

[rattle_snake]

If you have the cash to blast tub and frame, go for it. What is your time worth?

So are you re-tubing the 44 for the axle lengths you bought, for more strength instead of a truss, both, or ?

How much was the DOM?

 

['84 Bronco II]

If you have the cash to blast tub and frame, go for it. What is your time worth?

So are you re-tubing the 44 for the axle lengths you bought, for more strength instead of a truss, both, or ?

How much was the DOM?

Both, and so I can add a lot more caster in and keep the driveshaft happy since I will have lots of droop and a very short front driveshaft. I think I want to be at 10-12º with the pinion pointing directly at the transfer case. All that caster should help a lot with stability at speed with such a short wheelbase and give me a respectable amount of camber gain when cornering hard.

EDIT: I though I mentioned this in my previous posts, but this Bronco currently has a 3" lift which uses degree bushings in the radius arms to correct caster, but this also points the pinion further down. With the weight of the body removed, I discovered the stock front driveshaft was only ~1" away from bind when I removed it Going to a HP Dana 44 will raise the pinion yoke 3" over the stock LP axle, but it is going to need all the help it can get to not bind since I am shooting for the maximum allowed 14" of travel.

 

[ChrisRWG]

I've been watching this on the 'gram, I still need to make it out to your side of town and check this out and lend a hand!

 

['84 Bronco II]

I've been watching this on the 'gram, I still need to make it out to your side of town and check this out and lend a hand!

Good to see you made it over to Irate! Let me know when you want to come by, I keep my beer fridge stocked

 

['84 Bronco II]

Nothing too exciting again, but I finished getting the frame stripped last weekend before the "Snowpacalypse" hit. I am hoping to get it hauled over to a shop to do the media blasting tomorrow since the weather is supposed to finally break (I don't like driving my truck and trailer on icy, salty roads).

Next step will be building a body dolly so I can take the tub in to get blasted too. I think I'll probably copy what Halogrinder did, but instead of attaching it to a rotisserie, just build some legs with casters.

 

['84 Bronco II]

I decided to build the body cart out of 3"x3" .120 wall square steel tubing. I drew up a quick design based on this frame drawing which I included below to maybe help someone else out who might want to copy what I did.

I bought two 24' sticks (48' total) of the 3"x3" .120 wall tubing from a local steel yard for $286 Jeez, when did steel get so stinkin' expensive? I also bought four 5" casters, 9' of 7/16" all thread, and a few pounds of bolts, nuts, and washers to bolt everything together.

Laying out the frame

Welded together:

Drilling the feet for the casters:

What's a build thread without weld pictures?

And here's the finished cart:

I have a few more small things and the windshield to remove from the body before I take it to get blasted. The frame should be done pretty soon and I can start working on putting things back together.

 

[ChrisRWG]

Have you found a place to buy DOM in ABQ? I have gone to Choice Steel but they don't carry it and their customer service is terrible. I have requested an order for DOM and multiple quotes and they never get back to me.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Have you found a place to buy DOM in ABQ? I have gone to Choice Steel but they don't carry it and their customer service is terrible. I have requested an order for DOM and multiple quotes and they never get back to me.

Choice is the worst steel supplier I have ever dealt with. I think unless you are buying thousands of dollars worth of material from them on a regular basis, they like to treat you like you are wasting their time.

The piece of 3.5" OD DOM I bought was from Midwest Steel Supply but I only needed 3', so shipping wasn't too terrible, and a local supplier probably would have made me buy a minimum.

I still need to buy the 2" DOM for the cage, and I literally called every steel supplier in the Albuquerque and Las Cruces areas, and the only place that stocked it was Craig En Taggert in Las Cruces (2" .120 wall anyway, I am not sure what other sizes they carry). They quoted me $6.31/ft last summer, and the way steel has been going up, I probably should have bought it already. Mesilla Valley Metals in Las Cruces volunteered to to order me the 3.5" DOM when I called, but I declined their offer and decided to order online instead. They have always been great to deal with and were my go-to supplier when I was still living in Las Cruces.

 

[rattle_snake]

Body cart looks good. With steel prices as they are, it doesn't look cheap.

 

[ChrisRWG]

Choice is the worst steel supplier I have ever dealt with. I think unless you are buying thousands of dollars worth of material from them on a regular basis, they like to treat you like you are wasting their time.

The piece of 3.5" OD DOM I bought was from Midwest Steel Supply but I only needed 3', so shipping wasn't too terrible, and a local supplier probably would have made me buy a minimum.

I still need to buy the 2" DOM for the cage, and I literally called every steel supplier in the Albuquerque and Las Cruces areas, and the only place that stocked it was Craig En Taggert in Las Cruces (2" .120 wall anyway, I am not sure what other sizes they carry). They quoted me $6.31/ft last summer, and the way steel has been going up, I probably should have bought it already. Mesilla Valley Metals in Las Cruces volunteered to to order me the 3.5" DOM when I called, but I declined their offer and decided to order online instead. They have always been great to deal with and were my go-to supplier when I was still living in Las Cruces.

You have described every interaction I have had with Choice perfectly. I hate that place, but I have to use it sometimes. I was recommended to use Mesilla Valley Metals for DOM in the future. It makes no sense to me that in a city the size of ABQ we have no means to get DOM reliably.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to see the tub blasted

 

['84 Bronco II]

I got the frame back from the blaster, and it was definitely worth the money I didn't realize it with all the dirt and rust that was on it when I took it apart, but apparently this was originally a 6 cylinder frame that someone did a V8 swap on. The V8 frame mounts are very obviously added by one of the previous owners, and I think their placement is a little sloppy since it seems like the passenger side motor mount bolt hole was hogged out a bit to get things to go together.

 

[ChrisRWG]

What leaf springs are you going to throw at the back end of this?

 

['84 Bronco II]

What leaf springs are you going to throw at the back end of this?

I haven't really decided yet.

Bronco application springs are only 48" long and have a centered pin. I don't have a lot of confidence in 48" springs holding up very long to 14" of travel in race conditions, but Bronco Graveyard sells some 11 leaf packs made by Deaver for $500 and some U.S.-made knock off 11 leaf packs for $290. I want to push the rear back ~2", and I am not a huge fan of offset perches, so I would have to move the chassis mounts back, but if I am going to go through that much work, I would prefer to run a longer spring.

The Deaver G50 10 leaf spring pack intended for Ranger applications (~57" long) supposedly works well in early Broncos with 14-16" of travel and will give the ride height I am after, but with the center pin off set, it isn't really practical to get the rear axle further back than stock. Those packs run $880.

I have been meaning to talk to Alcan and Deaver to see what a custom set of springs made for my application would run, but I am sure they'll be expensive.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I haven't really decided yet.

Bronco application springs are only 48" long and have a centered pin. I don't have a lot of confidence in 48" springs holding up very long to 14" of travel in race conditions, but Bronco Graveyard sells some 11 leaf packs made by Deaver for $500 and some U.S.-made knock off 11 leaf packs for $290. I want to push the rear back ~2", and I am not a huge fan of offset perches, so I would have to move the chassis mounts back, but if I am going to go through that much work, I would prefer to run a longer spring.

The Deaver G50 10 leaf spring pack intended for Ranger applications (~57" long) supposedly works well in early Broncos with 14-16" of travel and will give the ride height I am after, but with the center pin off set, it isn't really practical to get the rear axle further back than stock. Those packs run $880.

I have been meaning to talk to Alcan and Deaver to see what a custom set of springs made for my application would run, but I am sure they'll be expensive.

If I were gonna spend $500 on Deavers I'd get something for a 64" application and move the spring hangers. Buy once cry once.

 

['84 Bronco II]

If I were gonna spend $500 on Deavers I'd get something for a 64" application and move the spring hangers. Buy once cry once.

64" springs won't fit on an early Bronco chassis. There is only room to move the rear hanger back ~7", so if I move the axle back 2", that leaves me with ~29" of spring behind the center pin. The Ranger/Bronco II/Explorer leaf packs are 57" long with 31" of spring behind the center pin, so if you use one of those, you have to keep the rear axle in more or less the stock position.

There isn't really a constraint on the front hanger, so if you know of an application with long springs with only ~29" behind the center pin with quality aftermarket support, I'd love to hear about it. Where are you finding $500 Deaver packs? The only $500 Deaver pack I am aware of is the one made exclusively for Bronco Graveyard.

 

[arse_sidewards]

64" springs won't fit on an early Bronco chassis. There is only room to move the rear hanger back ~7", so if I move the axle back 2", that leaves me with ~29" of spring behind the center pin. The Ranger/Bronco II/Explorer leaf packs are 57" long with 31" of spring behind the center pin, so if you use one of those, you have to keep the rear axle in more or less the stock position.

There isn't really a constraint on the front hanger, so if you know of an application with long springs with only ~29" behind the center pin with quality aftermarket support, I'd love to hear about it. Where are you finding $500 Deaver packs? The only $500 Deaver pack I am aware of is the one made exclusively for Bronco Graveyard.

Can you not extend the mound rearward beyond the chassis?

I figured $500 was a reasonable price for race springs since normal springs cost $300ish shipped to your door and the big thing that sets the race springs apart in terms of price is the extra labor in all those leaves. I haven't priced out springs in nearly a decade.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Can you not extend the mound rearward beyond the chassis?

I figured $500 was a reasonable price for race springs since normal springs cost $300ish shipped to your door and the big thing that sets the race springs apart in terms of price is the extra labor in all those leaves. I haven't priced out springs in nearly a decade.

I could extend the hangers out past the end of the frame, but that is going to kill departure angle and make things weird with the bumper; especially since I want to keep the factory-style tension shackle setup. The tension shackle has better stability and allows for more arch than a compression shackle setup. My preference would to be to run custom springs, but that is going to depend on how much it costs. I have no idea what custom leaves run, but if they cost much more than $1000, I'll probably go with an off-the-shelf set of springs and make them work (Unless Deaver, Alcan, or National want to sponsor me ).

 

[arse_sidewards]

I could extend the hangers out past the end of the frame, but that is going to kill departure angle and make things weird with the bumper; especially since I want to keep the factory-style tension shackle setup. The tension shackle has better stability and allows for more arch than a compression shackle setup. My preference would to be to run custom springs, but that is going to depend on how much it costs. I have no idea what custom leaves run, but if they cost much more than $1000, I'll probably go with an off-the-shelf set of springs and make them work (Unless Deaver, Alcan, or National want to sponsor me ).

I agree on keeping the tension shackles, but how much of a hindrance is departure angle really gonna be in practice? I've never had issues with anything. But I'm dragging hitches and bumpers in northeast muddy dirt.

At $500 vs $1k the Bronco Graveyard springs are a no brainer though.

 

[Maquet24]

Looking good man! I like how close we are in both our builds.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Looking good man! I like how close we are in both our builds.

Thanks! I am definitely watching to see how yours comes out.