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Shackle Snatch Rings WLL

[memphis]

Web wheeler
Joined
Jun 6, 2020
Member Number
1867
Messages
745
Some shackle snatch rings I see listed with a WLL and others I do not... Sometimes the synthetic line has a tag sewn on it stating the WLL of the line itself but not the snatch ring. What is the deal with this? If I'm using a warn 8274, which we will argue has pulling strength of 10K (I know it's listed at 8k). Do I need a snatch ring rated for 20K?
 
20k WLL probably has a failure rating of 100k lbs :laughing: i'd go smaller rather than larger, find a ~10k WLL if you can or otherwise whatever fits your line and call it a day. rings and blocks and hardware and such from any reputable source will likely well outperform the electric winch motor.
 
20k snatch block isn't that crazy. That's what what most basic truck/jeep sized ones are. The 8-10k ones are for a sxs.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
20k snatch block isn't that crazy. That's what what most basic truck/jeep sized ones are. The 8-10k ones are for a sxs.
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yeah and the regular truck ones are plenty oversized :flipoff2: they are simple devices.

hell the "soft shackle" with the skateboard wheel on it style snatch blocks are likely not rated at 20k lb WLL yet are also used regularly with success.
 
Provience said:
yeah and the regular truck ones are plenty oversized :flipoff2: they are simple devices.

hell the "soft shackle" with the skateboard wheel on it style snatch blocks are likely not rated at 20k lb WLL yet are also used regularly with success.
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Probably, but I don't think I'd want to use my sxs sized one with my ~9k winches.

My cheap soft shackles are rated for 30k :flipoff2:
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Probably, but I don't think I'd want to use my sxs sized one with my ~9k winches.

My cheap soft shackles are rated for 30k :flipoff2:
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I have a hard time believing the 30k rating on a soft shackle is anywhere close to the 20k WLL rating on a traditional wheel/plate snatch block. 30k failure more likely

especially once they are both 5 years old :laughing: point is, they are nearly all overkill for 99% of what people do with them, and i wanted to try and pre-empt the professional heavy equipment rigger people who think everything weighs 10T and needs to work 100' in the air :flipoff2:
 
Provience said:
yeah and the regular truck ones are plenty oversized :flipoff2: they are simple devices.

hell the "soft shackle" with the skateboard wheel on it style snatch blocks are likely not rated at 20k lb WLL yet are also used regularly with success.
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That’s exactly what I’m talking about... those skateboard wheels. Custom slice doesn’t show a WLL but lists a “winch capacity”. Masterpull lists a working load limit on their rings... hence my confusion. Without a WLL aren’t these vendors opening themselves to a lawsuit with all the new school Jeeple out there? Think American Jeeper, Jeremy what’s his fuckface... guys like that would sue in a heart beat if the ring let go
 
arse_sidewards said:
If you're so worried about it then run steel since you can buy that with well defined WLL and break strength.
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I guess the simple answer is get one with a stamped WLL. Guilty... I was initially looking by price comparison first and dove a bit deeper hence this thread. Cheaper rings aren’t marked... Maybe they haven’t gone through the R&D or done a pull test? I have no clue and a vendor sure as hell isn’t going to tell me that.

Custom Splice said the rings they sell have a WLL engraved on them but they couldn’t show me a pic? Anyone got one in their trial bag?
 
The standard for rigging and hoisting hardware is ~5:1 factor of safety for the Working Load Limit (i.e. 10,000LB WLL = 50,000LB Failure load). The exact factor of safety for the WLL depends on the hardware type; for instance, Shackles are 6:1, Chain slings are 4:1, Soft Slings, Snatch blocks, and wire cable are 5:1.

The offroad industry does not adhere to hoisting and rigging standards for the most part, and almost nothing they sell would be acceptable for overhead lifting. For instance, Warn lists its Zeon 8 (8,000Lb) winch with 5/16" wire cable which has a WLL of 1,960 Lbs (7x19) and a breaking strength of 9,800Lbs. Not much of a factor of safety, especially if the cable is worn or damaged. The reason for the ~5:1 standard in hoisting and rigging is because lives are literally on the line, and to account for wear and tear on the rigging components as well as operator error to a lesser degree.

So to answer you question, offroad winch manufacturers are operating with a factor of safety barely over 1 while the hoisting and rigging industry is around 5:1. I guess pick somewhere you feel comfortable in that range :laughing:
 
'84 Bronco II said:
The standard for rigging and hoisting hardware is ~5:1 factor of safety for the Working Load Limit (i.e. 10,000LB WLL = 50,000LB Failure load). The exact factor of safety for the WLL depends on the hardware type; for instance, Shackles are 6:1, Chain slings are 4:1, Soft Slings, Snatch blocks, and wire cable are 5:1.

The offroad industry does not adhere to hoisting and rigging standards for the most part, and almost nothing they sell would be acceptable for overhead lifting. For instance, Warn lists its Zeon 8 (8,000Lb) winch with 5/16" wire cable which has a WLL of 1,960 Lbs (7x19) and a breaking strength of 9,800Lbs. Not much of a factor of safety, especially if the cable is worn or damaged. The reason for the ~5:1 standard in hoisting and rigging is because lives are literally on the line, and to account for wear and tear on the rigging components as well as operator error to a lesser degree.

So to answer you question, offroad winch manufacturers are operating with a factor of safety barely over 1 while the hoisting and rigging industry is around 5:1. I guess pick somewhere you feel comfortable in that range :laughing:
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yup, that's why an offroad block for wire is going to be rated significantly higher than actually matters for offroad use. it isn't expensive to make the parts up to snuff and is nice when it doesn't break after 20 years but the ancillary rigging equipment is the least of concern.

heck, I use shackles that are significantly oversized by weight rating simply because they are easier to use with my big dumb hands :laughing:
 
Factor55 might be the only off-road specific company testing and rating their products so you know what it can do.

Its always fun to see huge boat anchor shackles and hooks laying on the ground still connected to the bumper or mount that got ripped off of the vehicle because the guy in flip flops who tac-tac-tac welded it was drunk and his 110V flux core machine popped the breaker and he never finished welding it.

For those who rave about soft shackles, I have one of the original Gator Jaw soft shackles and it is always a pain to pull the thing apart and fish the knot through. A screw shackle is so much easier and faster. I still use it because it is the shortest setup vs a screw shackle and flap strap when going around a tube. It is also non scratch.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
Factor55 might be the only off-road specific company testing and rating their products so you know what it can do.
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Freedom Recovery Gear up in the great white north is real good at having all their products tested to breaking (and many other brands too) by a 3rd party. I keep trying to get him to publish the results for all the products, both his and the others (they are quite surprising when compared to what some brands claim), but he says no, it's all about knowing what others claim and making sure his numbers are accurate for his products rating claims.
 
Tech Tim said:
Freedom Recovery Gear up in the great white north is real good at having all their products tested to breaking (and many other brands too) by a 3rd party. I keep trying to get him to publish the results for all the products, both his and the others (they are quite surprising when compared to what some brands claim), but he says no, it's all about knowing what others claim and making sure his numbers are accurate for his products rating claims.
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that's fun.

probably reasonably close for type/size/style
 
Tech Tim said:
Unfortunately no, many big name brands have very inflated ratings. :eek:
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well, if we apply a similar 5:1 safety factor, their 1/2" soft shackle is only rated for 11k lbs working.

if that were on a hard shackle, people would throw it away and call it SxS quality junk

there is a lot of perception and marketing issues that arise. Granted, poor knots and design and lower quality cord can certainly result in lower amounts, but i doubt there are many or any 1/2" soft shackles that are rated above that 55k lbs min. failure rating.

which goes back to my first comment about everything being generally overkill and standards being low for offroad recovery stuff.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
For those who rave about soft shackles, I have one of the original Gator Jaw soft shackles and it is always a pain to pull the thing apart and fish the knot through. A screw shackle is so much easier and faster. I still use it because it is the shortest setup vs a screw shackle and flap strap when going around a tube. It is also non scratch.
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I got tired of losing my suck down winch shackle pin, so I started running a zip tie through it so it wouldn’t disappear.

I have since gotten tired of passing my Leatherman tool up to whoever is pulling my line just to cut the zip tie and break the pin loose.

Im down with the soft shackle now.
 
Provience said:
well, if we apply a similar 5:1 safety factor, their 1/2" soft shackle is only rated for 11k lbs working.

if that were on a hard shackle, people would throw it away and call it SxS quality junk

there is a lot of perception and marketing issues that arise. Granted, poor knots and design and lower quality cord can certainly result in lower amounts, but i doubt there are many or any 1/2" soft shackles that are rated above that 55k lbs min. failure rating.
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Another thing to remember, the breaking strength of rope is determined on its bend radius.
 
Tech Tim said:
Freedom Recovery Gear up in the great white north is real good at having all their products tested to breaking (and many other brands too) by a 3rd party. I keep trying to get him to publish the results for all the products, both his and the others (they are quite surprising when compared to what some brands claim), but he says no, it's all about knowing what others claim and making sure his numbers are accurate for his products rating claims.
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Thanks for posting this Tim, I try to buy Canadian when I can. They don't offer snatch rings from my quick search but it looks like they tick the box on the soft shackle... even tagged until it falls off LOL
 
[memphis said:
;n279044]

Thanks for posting this Tim, I try to buy Canadian when I can. They don't offer snatch rings from my quick search but it looks like they tick the box on the soft shackle... even tagged until it falls off LOL
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They don't carry snatch rings, in high load testing, the rope tends to heat-up and melt. He is working on a really cool pulley block set-up. Have got to see some of the prototypes, looking forward to seeing the finished product.


Richard at FRG is good people and a long time avid wheeler. He lives in Canada, but spends a bunch of time down here in the states wheeling. You name it Rubicon, Hammers, even Panamint Valley back when it was open.
 
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