RUF life..

[IowaOffRoad]

So... I was warned that going RUF would destroy the springs in short order.

Basically yes, they are not a direct replacement for stock front leafs.

Also, the ruf suck, if you actually wheel, they bend in 1-3 trips.

2 trips for me. YotaAtieToo I should have listened. Thought I could get by since I'm pretty light as far as trail rigs go (about 3400#) I love the axle location and the flex. I hate the fact after our trip this weekend to Kansas Rocks the axle is now basically resting on the bump stops AFTER lengthening the shackles to help flex/account for sag from the first trip. I can't find it now, but I ran across a website that listed the factory spring rates and I believe the rear was 100# lighter than the front, so I should have known. So I have several questions.

1) what exactly are the factory spring rates? Would be helpful if I have a custom set built.
2) what are y'all running for springs that aren't 39yo stockers?
3) if you're running front Wagoneers or first-gen S10 blazer rears, what is your experience?
4) does someone make a stock height rear spring with the front spring rate? I haven't found one on duh internets yet, perhaps I'm searching the wrong terms?

I'd like to keep the front axle shifted where it is as it wheels so much better, I've already changed everything for this length spring, and build a driveshaft to suit. I don't want to go back to stock, even with the shifted pin location on some of the aftermarket springs.

I know y'all have thoughts, now let's hear them.

Build a 4 link will not be accepted. Buy a Jeep will not be accepted I'm sure me getting ahead of it won't stop it though...

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Tg and all pro springs are pretty close to ruf specs. You can can pull a leaf or 2 when they are new to prevent the monster truck effect, once they break in, you can add back as needed.

Sky and I think Dave's off road make ruf replacements as well.

 

[84runners]

You've inspired my first post.... Why? Because the thought of throwing 30 year old springs into a rig and expecting them to...... I know, I know, everyone does it.

Anyway, Old Man Emu makes a 2" lift heavy duty rear spring for 84-88 & 89-94 pickups. I have a set of 89-94 rears in my rig on with tons and 40's that have lasted a few years and are still good to go. A wheeling bud has some 84-88's in his with toyota axles and 38's. Couple years and good. We're both pretty hard on equipment.

I cut the keeper, alignment holder things, heat and bent them over the top of the spring just the trail gear and All-pro's have theirs. Put them in as they come, overload and all. My thinking is the overload kinda acts like an anti wrap.

I used to wreck a set of TG or All pro's in a year. All pro used to have free shipping on Thanksgiving, I'd get 'em every time.

Old man Emu. Run long time.

 

[IowaOffRoad]

You've inspired my first post.... Why? Because the thought of throwing 30 year old springs into a rig and expecting them to...... I know, I know, everyone does it.

Anyway, Old Man Emu makes a 2" lift heavy duty rear spring for 84-88 & 89-94 pickups. I have a set of 89-94 rears in my rig on with tons and 40's that have lasted a few years and are still good to go. A wheeling bud has some 84-88's in his with toyota axles and 38's. Couple years and good. We're both pretty hard on equipment.

I cut the keeper, alignment holder things, heat and bent them over the top of the spring just the trail gear and All-pro's have theirs. Put them in as they come, overload and all. My thinking is the overload kinda acts like an anti wrap.

I used to wreck a set of TG or All pro's in a year. All pro used to have free shipping on Thanksgiving, I'd get 'em every time.

Old man Emu. Run long time.

I knew they wouldn't last too long as the unknown age front lift springs were running a negative arch before I tossed them and went this route. I knew from the factory spring rates (I finally found some info, I think they are 235# rear and 340# front factory) that it was only temporary. It sure was fun while it lasted as I humped over rocks with that setup and 35's the first time out that I'd only seen buggy's do in the past.

I do like your real-world assessment of the OME stuff. If I don't get a satisfactory junkyard solution, that's the route I'll probably go. Parts counter here says they are special order, which won't affect me much as baby number 4 is due in the next 2 weeks so wheeling is going to take a back-burner here for a little while. I may experiment with a bastard pack just because, but the OME setup is probably the way to go. If I decide to go the IBB parts counter route, it looks like $300-350 should get the springs and bushings to my door.

Do you have any issues with shackle inversion? I'm currently using the 'factory' shackle stop (read, cab mount bracket) but with a proper spring I'd like to let it flex more. I currently have an IowaOffRoad fab'd long shackle that I'm running. I've given some thought to fabbing a slider like they used to do on stock cars to keep the geometry stable and increase clearance as I have gotten hung up dropping over an obstacle a couple of times.

 

[GBG8201]

Well this was good timing...
I'm currently trying to fit 51" rears up front on my 82. It ain't workin with the tg front hanger and I've tried both 5.25" boomerang and 6" straight shackles.

Sounds like buying lift springs is just the smarter way to go here. Since they fit at least.

 

[Arickvan]

I had rufs that "W"'d out on me

Switched to rancho 44044s with an extra 1" push and they've been working good

Sky's is making their 3f springs again

And my buddy just got a custom set of deavers for the rear of his taco for $900

So if I were to do it again I'd be looking into deavers, I think ranchos and sky's are about $600-700 so it's not a huge jump to get exactly what you need

 

[Aisin]

I have the OME 2 inch lift rears I’ll be using up front. They are nicely made springs.

 

[rockyota83]

3rd gen rears up front are tits, you guys having problems are just noobs you cut down longer leafs from other spring packs to the proper length, taper the ends you cut properly, drill the center pin out to 7/16" (because 3/8" center pins dont hold up if you actually wheel hard ) and add them to the pack so they work better than any aftermarket cheap garbage spring you can get

been doing that forever and beat the crap out of them

my last 3rd gen rear up front had all 63 chevy leafs with only a toy main leaf and full military wraps at both ends, 3/8" spring clamps because 1/4" doesnt hold up if you actually wheel hard

 

[Aisin]

The offset on the 3rd gen springs suck.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

3rd gen rears up front are tits, you guys having problems are just noobs you cut down longer leafs from other spring packs to the proper length, taper the ends you cut properly, drill the center pin out to 7/16" (because 3/8" center pins dont hold up if you actually wheel hard ) and add them to the pack so they work better than any aftermarket cheap garbage spring you can get

been doing that forever and beat the crap out of them

my last 3rd gen rear up front had all 63 chevy leafs with only a toy main leaf and full military wraps at both ends, 3/8" spring clamps because 1/4" doesnt hold up if you actually wheel hard

OK, sure if you have enough time and meth to build your own mil wrap leafs and drill fucking spring steel.

Also, you won't break center pins with proper spring plate tension. Not sure if that possible with u bolts, but with 5/8" bolts you can basically run no center pin. Really your center pin shouldn't see shear load.

I ran bds springs in my 4runner with good results. When I did bend them doing dumb shit, lifetime warranty (but actually Canada )

The pin offset, or lack of, sucks though.

 

[Clb]

Don't build no shit, there won't be no shit!
+1 on staggering the spring ends evenly!
ever look at factory spacing?
support the mains

 

[rockyota83]

OK, sure if you have enough time and meth to build your own mil wrap leafs and drill fucking spring steel.

Also, you won't break center pins with proper spring plate tension. Not sure if that possible with u bolts, but with 5/8" bolts you can basically run no center pin. Really your center pin shouldn't see shear load.

I ran bds springs in my 4runner with good results. When I did bend them doing dumb shit, lifetime warranty (but actually Canada )

The pin offset, or lack of, sucks though.

yea because im too dumb to keep my u bolts tight once you actually start wheelin like breaking shit doesnt matter then 3/8" center pins do not hold up and no way in hell are you going to run with no center pins, even with 3/4" u bolts and an axle housing you can actually tighten the u bolts properly without deforming the axle tube. on paper at the engineering desk with machined flat surfaces yea your center pin shouldnt see shear but in the real world that doesnt happen with a leaf spring pack and a spring perch, this isnt a high steer arm were talking about(yet even those use key ways to make them stronger, you should tell all those keyed high steer arm builders that with proper clamping force you shouldnt need a keyway ). drilling the center pin out isnt that hard, use lots of water and a stop and go on the pressure every second. ive drilled out 4 sets of leafs, i also know how to sharpen a drill bit with an angle grinder



89-95 Toyota Rear
Flat length = 51"
Front Half = 21.5"
Rear Half = 29.5"

 

[rockyota83]

The offset on the 3rd gen springs suck.

good approach angle does not suck

 

[rattlewagon]

Ive been running the OME CS009R springs since 2017. They were too stiff and sat too tall for me, so after a year I switched them around so its just OME top two leaves and good ole RUFS underneath.

I like running 30 year old springs, but kept bending/breaking main leafs where they rub on each other.

Stock cs009r vs my old flat ruf

Pulled the overloads but it just "w" ed them.

Replaced with ruf lowers, ran for a year, still too high, but flexed pretty well.

Last year I pulled the 3rd and 4th ome leaf (so now only ome leafs are top 2) and replaced with a big flat spring from a taco pack, and now Im happy with them. I would buy the cs009r again in a heart beat just to build off of, its cheaper to do that than just to get the two stock main leafs from a spring shop. Front bumpstops were added, and stop just past flat.

 

[rattlewagon]

We did the 3rd gens on my buddys 4runner. They sit flat and flex great, they max out the 14" shock. They do need one more leaf to help support the main 2 through, I bet well be swapping this pack out or repairing it by the end of the summer. One of my OME take outs from my post above are actually in this pack. Hanger off the front and frame tubes all the way back.

I agree on drilling out the center pin to the larger size. I also try to use the 3rd gen or taco packs because the leafs are a bit thicker.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

yea because im too dumb to keep my u bolts tight once you actually start wheelin like breaking shit doesnt matter then 3/8" center pins do not hold up and no way in hell are you going to run with no center pins, even with 3/4" u bolts and an axle housing you can actually tighten the u bolts properly without deforming the axle tube. on paper at the engineering desk with machined flat surfaces yea your center pin shouldnt see shear but in the real world that doesnt happen with a leaf spring pack and a spring perch, this isnt a high steer arm were talking about(yet even those use key ways to make them stronger, you should tell all those keyed high steer arm builders that with proper clamping force you shouldnt need a keyway ). drilling the center pin out isnt that hard, use lots of water and a stop and go on the pressure every second. ive drilled out 4 sets of leafs, i also know how to sharpen a drill bit with an angle grinder



89-95 Toyota Rear
Flat length = 51"
Front Half = 21.5"
Rear Half = 29.5"

Keyed high steer arms are to keep 4 1/2" bolts/studs from breaking, not 1 3/8 one.

Are you really trying to say the shear load of 1 7/16 bolt is better than the clamping force of 4 5/8s bolts?

Like I said, u bolts suck. Regular bolts will eliminate spring pin issues.

 

[ToyodaAddict1980]

I've had good luck with RUF. I like to use a 79-83 pack then add a 2nd gen pack, staggering the leafs, for a 6-7 leaf pack. I have bump stops set to stop the springs before they go negative. I also drive it like it has to get me home, because it does. I've got a set of the Sky 3F springs stashed away but I don't see my RUF giving it up any time soon. I think the trick to RUF is using 6+ leafs, spring clamps and bump stops. Also, limit straps probably wouldn't hurt.

 

[Hodgiemoto]

As a general note on all leaf springs don't mess around with 1/2" U-bolts. They bend, deform, strip out and you constantly have to retighten them and if you don't the center pins will break. I went to 5/8" with nylock nuts and it's made my world a better place. Much more beef and I've yet to have them loosen up on me. Ruff Stuff or Summit are good sources.

 

[ToyodaAddict1980]

As a general note on all leaf springs don't mess around with 1/2" U-bolts. They bend, deform, strip out and you constantly have to retighten them and if you don't the center pins will break. I went to 5/8" with nylock nuts and it's made my world a better place. Much more beef and I've yet to have them loosen up on me. Ruff Stuff or Summit are good sources.

This was pretty much my experience as well.

 

[Brecklin]

I used to run a second gen rear pack with a couple IH springs added in, for a total of 6 springs in the pack. At ride height the springs were about flat and loved to go into a negative arch. I never had any complaints in performance or breakage. Shackle angle was close to a 45 (IIRC)

What's your shackle angle like?

 

[rockyota83]

Keyed high steer arms are to keep 4 1/2" bolts/studs from breaking, not 1 3/8 one.

Are you really trying to say the shear load of 1 7/16 bolt is better than the clamping force of 4 5/8s bolts?

Like I said, u bolts suck. Regular bolts will eliminate spring pin issues.

im saying what i said, can you read? a spring pack sitting on a spring perch with u bolts hanging off the side of it with a spring plate is no where near a flat machined surface where it takes all shear forces off the center pin not sure how you dont get that. thats cool you never had a problem with center pins so you think its just my u bolts being the problem. the truth is when you wheel like youre in a 150k buggy racing in KOH bashing into rocks at speed with your front axle the 3/8" center pin does not hold up, i have broken several and bent half a dozen, as has two of my friends that wheel too hard. replacing the 3/8" center pin with a 7/16" solved the issue, four 5/8" u bolts has squat to do with it in this situation. im the type of guy that buys new u bolts all the time, i dont reuse old shitty ones and i constantly check them for tightness, i even have spares of multiple sizes sitting in my shop. bolts wont fix the issue, that will just bend the 3/8" spring plate, ive bent 1/2" spring plates as well. you would need fabricated spring plates with reinforcement bracing on them along with those bolts

 

[84runners]

Do you have any issues with shackle inversion? I'm currently using the 'factory' shackle stop (read, cab mount bracket) but with a proper spring I'd like to let it flex more. I currently have an IowaOffRoad fab'd long shackle that I'm running. I've given some thought to fabbing a slider like they used to do on stock cars to keep the geometry stable and increase clearance as I have gotten hung up dropping over an obstacle a couple of times.

I'm running a normal shackle in the regular spot. I had to get creative with my front hanger mounting.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

im saying what i said, can you read? a spring pack sitting on a spring perch with u bolts hanging off the side of it with a spring plate is no where near a flat machined surface where it takes all shear forces off the center pin not sure how you dont get that. thats cool you never had a problem with center pins so you think its just my u bolts being the problem. the truth is when you wheel like youre in a 150k buggy racing in KOH bashing into rocks at speed with your front axle the 3/8" center pin does not hold up, i have broken several and bent half a dozen, as has two of my friends that wheel too hard. replacing the 3/8" center pin with a 7/16" solved the issue, four 5/8" u bolts has squat to do with it in this situation. im the type of guy that buys new u bolts all the time, i dont reuse old shitty ones and i constantly check them for tightness, i even have spares of multiple sizes sitting in my shop. bolts wont fix the issue, that will just bend the 3/8" spring plate, ive bent 1/2" spring plates as well. you would need fabricated spring plates with reinforcement bracing on them along with those bolts

I just find it funny that you think all the stress is on the center pin.

Have you ever ran u bolt "eliminators" over u bolts? Ive been running them since high-school, started out cause I was cheap, never broken a spring pin. but after just doing 5/8 u bolts when I went to 1 tons and never being able to tighten them near as much as bolts because they just keep deforming and stretching, I see why people have issues.

I don't drive like a complete retard in the rocks, but I've hit plenty of shit hauling ass in the snow.

 

[rockyota83]

I just find it funny that you think all the stress is on the center pin.

Have you ever ran u bolt "eliminators" over u bolts? Ive been running them since high-school, started out cause I was cheap, never broken a spring pin. but after just doing 5/8 u bolts when I went to 1 tons and never being able to tighten them near as much as bolts because they just keep deforming and stretching, I see why people have issues.

I don't drive like a complete retard in the rocks, but I've hit plenty of shit hauling ass in the snow.

i just find it funny that you think you can take all the stress off the center pin and want to argue with me about my experience
its also laughable that you think i think all the stress is on the center pin, its quite obvious that the u bolts job is to take the stress, unfortunately they dont take it all

i built my first set of u bolt eliminator plates on a 14b in 2003 or 2004, mine had six 5/8" bolts per side instead of the usual 4 you find being sold. mine were also built out of 3/8" plate instead of 1/4", i also made mine with 3 vertical mounts to the axle instead of your normal 2, way over kill

drilling your center pin out to 7/16" is for people that drive like complete retards in the rocks when 3/8" center pins wont hold up, it is mostly the front axle that is the issue

another thing some people overlook with when tightening u bolts is lubricating the washers, imo its a must

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So you've never ran them in the front?

 

[Add]

Loved my 44044s. Had them for 5 years (7 trips to Moab) and dd duty with no issues

 

[rockyota83]

So you've never ran them in the front?

please tell us more about your u bolt eliminators!

 

[roundhouse]

St Louis Spring will make a spring thats any length or spec you want .

 

[KacksterK5]

combined two sets of rears and have been running them since 2008.

Factory main leaf
Factory second leaf with wraps around the spring eyes
Rubicon express full length Add a leaf
factory third leaf
long part of factory third leaf cut in half at center pin, new pin hole drilled
short part of factory third leaf with new pin hole drilled

Bump stops set so springs can't go negative
Sky boomerang shackles
14" Bilsteins with reservoirs

Made this video 10 years ago

 

[IowaOffRoad]

So, to throw another curveball into this discussion. I was getting ready to order the OME HD springs through the parts counter (thanks for your help Austin) when I got handed a Dr. bill that put my parts purchases on hold (fucking insurance denial). While I work through that, I have been thinking about my planned engine, trans, and t-case swap. I'm putting a 3.9L Magnum with an R-series trans and a chain drive t-case in this winter. I imagine I'm going to have about 150 extra pounds on the front end than before. The engine itself weighs about 40 pounds more than a 3.0L from what I could find. The trans will be slightly heavier than my current one, but the t-case will be slightly lighter so it's probably a wash. I'm going to strip anything that's unnecessary out front and possibly switch to synthetic rope to mitigate the weight gain as I like as light a rig as possible.

So, who's running RUF with a heavier engine than stock? Does this change anyone's recommendations? Don't talk me out of the swap, it's happening. These are probably my last mods before calling this rig 'done' (as if it's ever done) and concentrating on the family rig (2nd gen 4Runner) or the FJ40.

Before deciding on the OME's I'd thought the 44044 FSJ Cherokee spring would be up to the task, designed for heavier rig and V8 weight capacity. Anyone running the OME CS010R HD rear spring with heavier engine swap? Anyone's bastard packs holding up under same conditions?