Ripsaw driveline

[Yotota]

I believe the hydraulics are all custom shit that I would have to either rebuild or replace with more common stuff. ($$)

I have no intention of fitting tracks, but the system is the same. The H & H setup could power the chain drive that is already there.



That doesn’t sound simple to me at all.



The hydraulic controls on this thing are all proprietary patented stuff that is not available. It does not have simple hydro pumps or motors. From what little I know, driving fast vehicles with hydraulics is trouble.



It drove fast before with the chain drives, I’m just planning to swap the drive motors for a differential. The H & H setup looks like something I could make with my lathe/mill And junkyard parts.

Everyone, there are two giant chains in the box tube frame rails filled with oil. Each chains drives all the tires on that side. So it is a skid steer just like tracks. I’m not changing that.

Right, gut the controls that are on it and leave the hydro pump and gearmotors. If you have an engine, a pump, and two gearmotors, that's all the important stuff. Controlling the fluid is the easy part.

Driving ANYTHING with skid/track steer at speed gets sketchy unless it has good modern controls. But you're on a budget so keep it simple here. Study some hydraulic drive schematics from Track Dumpers, Excavators, Bobcats, etc. Not dozers because as mentioned earlier they are unique to push huge loads.

Once you realize what you need to do just source the components with the right pressure/flow ratings and screw it all together. It really is that easy.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Let's be real, he isn't going to be driving that thing down the road or at road speeds for any length of time so I would think just making it movable under its own power would be enough.

 

[1oddtech]

Post pictures of the pumps and motors

 

[aczlan]

This is a weapon of war, the only correct answer is 2 671T’s. Need to strike fear into the enemy

And in the person responsible for managing your fuel...

Over the cab on earlier models, in a tube on the right side on later. Have one of each.

From what I saw online, it appeared that some had a winch on the nose? Or was that just to redirect the cable to the side?

Looks like its a fairly standard drive motor:

Steering and drive: Their patent shows a lot of how they had it laid out, pictures of what is left would be a good start

More patents from that company are available at: Google Patents

Aaron Z

 

[WaterH]

What the fuck do you do with it if you get it running? Just seems like a bigger more useless version of an Argo 8x8 that everyone thinks is cool until they own one for 8 minutes.

True, but I happen to have several sheets of AR500. So I wonder what I could do with a multi-wheel vehicle with armor plate. Might be handy if some idiot cheated his way into the Whitehouse and got us into WW3.

Right, gut the controls that are on it and leave the hydro pump and gearmotors. If you have an engine, a pump, and two gearmotors, that's all the important stuff. Controlling the fluid is the easy part.

Driving ANYTHING with skid/track steer at speed gets sketchy unless it has good modern controls. But you're on a budget so keep it simple here. Study some hydraulic drive schematics from Track Dumpers, Excavators, Bobcats, etc. Not dozers because as mentioned earlier they are unique to push huge loads.

Once you realize what you need to do just source the components with the right pressure/flow ratings and screw it all together. It really is that easy.

The steering controls are gone. I didn’t get them with it. I believe the controls changed the variable pumps and wheel motors to change speeds to steer. That was the claim to fame for this machine. (A skid steer that could drive fast controlled)

Post pictures of the pumps and motors

I will try tomorrow. It is very difficult to see much. The two pumps are on the back of the sideways motor. They are about the size of a five gallon bucket each. The motors look about the same. I’m no expert, but can a pump be used as a motor? In some research I did several years ago, I believe they have some kind of wobble plate that can change the displacement. In any case, it’s very tight for such a big machine. My friend that is more knowledgeable than me about hydraulics said that there would some valves that would unlock the wheels. I couldn’t find them, so it had to be dragged on and off the tow truck To get it here. (The disc brakes are free)

 

[aczlan]

The steering controls are gone. I didn’t get them with it. I believe the controls changed the variable pumps and wheel motors to change speeds to steer. That was the claim to fame for this machine. (A skid steer that could drive fast controlled

From their patent applications it looked like they could also automatically raise some of the wheels when turning.
It looked like the actual controls are just basic electrical controls which should be easily reproducible at least for low speed testing.

Aaron Z

 

[Dethmachinefab]

Probably has a park brake that's spring apply/hyd pressure release. I don't think you will have too much trouble getting the original system to work. The steering bits can be replaced with something else. You just to need to operate the swash plates (wobbly bits). Pics will show what we need to do. Patent pic above shows a fixed displacement motor on the wheel end so it's prob just the pump that need controlling.

 

[87manche]

True, but I happen to have several sheets of AR500. So I wonder what I could do with a multi-wheel vehicle with armor plate. Might be handy if some idiot cheated his way into the Whitehouse and got us into WW3.



The steering controls are gone. I didn’t get them with it. I believe the controls changed the variable pumps and wheel motors to change speeds to steer. That was the claim to fame for this machine. (A skid steer that could drive fast controlled)



I will try tomorrow. It is very difficult to see much. The two pumps are on the back of the sideways motor. They are about the size of a five gallon bucket each. The motors look about the same. I’m no expert, but can a pump be used as a motor? In some research I did several years ago, I believe they have some kind of wobble plate that can change the displacement. In any case, it’s very tight for such a big machine. My friend that is more knowledgeable than me about hydraulics said that there would some valves that would unlock the wheels. I couldn’t find them, so it had to be dragged on and off the tow truck To get it here. (The disc brakes are free)

that sounds like some zero turn variable displacement pump deal on a much grander scale.

this is 2022.
an arduino and a playstation controller could drive that thing now.

edit
bonus that it could now be semi autonomous and you could use a yaw sensor to make it go straight.

 

[Wilson]

I don't think you realize how cheap modern hydro stuff is. Post specs of the OG system and we'll be able to help you find the shit you need.

Even then… wear parts are pretty basic and he says he has machining tools. He may the first “machinist” I’ve come across that cannot build “anything.”

 

[[486]]

oil filled chain drive, never considered that. are the drives to each wheel oil fill too?

that's how basically every wheeled skid-steer is set up

 

[aczlan]

I have not opened the swing arm. I don’t even know if each one has a chain or gear driven. It has tons of selinoids that control the height of each wheel independently and grouped. So you can jack up each side or front and back like a Mexican low rider. When jacked up, it still has suspension. Standard Hummer wheels/tires. Disc brake on every wheel. I think it went faster than 40.

The patent applications show chain drive down the arm to each wheel if I'm reading them correctly.

Aaron Z

 

[tracyb]

that's how basically every wheeled skid-steer is set up

read my mind. thats basically what i was wondering, when i made the comment. putting my thought process to words, im not good at.

i've seen some older stuff all with exposed chain. had no idea the newer stuff worked that way.


edit; the 6x6 gator a buddy has is a chain drive, thats what was stuck in my head. we've beat the holy hell out of that thing, but i dont think it goes much more than 15mph

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

First step is to figure out ratios, loads, speeds.
What tire size?
Is there any ratio with the chain drive?
What does the chain drive connect to?

I kept all my good hydraulic parts from the buggy to sell some day or to use again. So obviously they are for sale.
My best guess is that the chain drive is 1:1
My planetaries are 30:1 and the matching piston motors and dual hydrostat could achieve 15 MPH with 54" tires at 4K pump speed.
The dual hydrostat pump is servo controlled with a 4 axis joystick so you can tank steer. Pump is good for +300HP and can easily stall a 6.0L.
I have a bell housing and adapter plate for a LS, 6.0, 5.7, 5.3, 4.8, 4.3 GM.
I would assume that you would run one wheel motor per side. So my best guess is that you would need to speed up the planetary or chain drive to compensate for the smaller tire size. 54" vs 37" tire ratio.
That ratio would give you more than enough torque for what you would want. I would think you would want to double the ratio from 15mph to 30 mph in addition to the tire ratio. My best guess is a 10:1 planetary hub without doing the tire size math.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Even then… wear parts are pretty basic and he says he has machining tools. He may the first “machinist” I’ve come across that cannot build “anything.”

The better I get at machining shit the more I want to just build flat plate adapters to make commodity junk bolt to other commodity junk using off the shelf parts.

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

The planetary pilot is around 8" and the OD of the hub is around 10.5 so you could run a 12" diameter chain sprocket on the planetary. Depending on the stock sprocket size you might be able to accomplish all reduction through chain drive sprockets.
What chain sprockets are you running? Chain size and tooth count?

 

[Yotota]

True, but I happen to have several sheets of AR500. So I wonder what I could do with a multi-wheel vehicle with armor plate. Might be handy if some idiot cheated his way into the Whitehouse and got us into WW3.



The steering controls are gone. I didn’t get them with it. I believe the controls changed the variable pumps and wheel motors to change speeds to steer. That was the claim to fame for this machine. (A skid steer that could drive fast controlled)



I will try tomorrow. It is very difficult to see much. The two pumps are on the back of the sideways motor. They are about the size of a five gallon bucket each. The motors look about the same. I’m no expert, but can a pump be used as a motor? In some research I did several years ago, I believe they have some kind of wobble plate that can change the displacement. In any case, it’s very tight for such a big machine. My friend that is more knowledgeable than me about hydraulics said that there would some valves that would unlock the wheels. I couldn’t find them, so it had to be dragged on and off the tow truck To get it here. (The disc brakes are free)

No controls = less work.

But yeah, get a pic of everything that's in there and we can figure out how to make it work.

I didn't know jack about hydraulics until I worked in industry building and installing industrial equipment. All hydraulic with a mix of electric and mechanical controls. It's honestly really easy, even easier than DC circuit wiring. Literally the hardest part for me is tightening fittings so they don't leak.

 

[vetteboy79]

Anyone else follow this guy/build?

Truck body on a Sherman tank base, sounds like a similar steering type setup. Repowered with a 6V71 and auto trans, second engine under the hood for running a hydro winch and accessories.



Seemed mildly relevant as far as cobbling stuff like this together.

 

[1oddtech]

Looking at the hydraulic schematics it does have both variable displacement pumps and motors as well as mechanically shifted 2 speed gear box's. The electrical schematics show solinoid's controlling the pumps and motors.

 

[WaterH]

Even then… wear parts are pretty basic and he says he has machining tools. He may the first “machinist” I’ve come across that cannot build “anything.”

I do have the tools, but I never claimed to be a machinist. I use to employ some machinists. They taught me everything I know, but they didn’t teach me everything they know.

The better I get at machining shit the more I want to just build flat plate adapters to make commodity junk bolt to other commodity junk using off the shelf parts.

Exactly!

The planetary pilot is around 8" and the OD of the hub is around 10.5 so you could run a 12" diameter chain sprocket on the planetary. Depending on the stock sprocket size you might be able to accomplish all reduction through chain drive sprockets.
What chain sprockets are you running? Chain size and tooth count?

I wish you were here and could look it over to make a evaluation. Maybe when I get it in the shop I will get it somewhat disassembled and you can tell more from pics. I don’t have any idea what shape the hydro motors are. If they are full of hydro fluid are they likly to be good after 20 years sitting? (I don’t know if they have fluid)

 

[arse_sidewards]

If they are full of hydro fluid are they likly to be good after 20 years sitting? (I don’t know if they have fluid)

Yes. Worst case you might need to replace a seal.

 

[AK_F250]

From what I saw online, it appeared that some had a winch on the nose? Or was that just to redirect the cable to the side?

The winch is in the rear, those sheaves up front are there to get the cable centered on the blade and give reduction.

 

[87manche]

Anyone else follow this guy/build?

Truck body on a Sherman tank base, sounds like a similar steering type setup. Repowered with a 6V71 and auto trans, second engine under the hood for running a hydro winch and accessories.



Seemed mildly relevant as far as cobbling stuff like this together.

that uses the sherman setup that uses brakes to turn.

OPs weird gun carrier uses variable displacement pumps.

I'm assuming that it's like every other variable pump and there's just a swashplate to control pump output. The solenoid bullshit to raise/lower wheels isn't such a big deal. Everything that was done with complex electromechanical bullshit back in the day can easily be done with an arduino.

program it to control the swashplates with large servos or linear actuators with position feedback.
program it to lift the wheels if you turn the wheel passed a certain degree while above whatever speed.
use a yaw sensor to make it PID correct itself to drive straight without user input when the steering wheel angle is less than 5* or some bullshit.
use a nice gaming steering wheel for input.
Give it some override switches to manually control the ride height/wheel lift or even a damned joystick so you can do cool lowrider shit.

The logic is simple. Just have to figure out how to control the existing shit with it, but if they're just solenoids it's not a big deal.

 

[Yotota]

that uses the sherman setup that uses brakes to turn.

OPs weird gun carrier uses variable displacement pumps.

I'm assuming that it's like every other variable pump and there's just a swashplate to control pump output. The solenoid bullshit to raise/lower wheels isn't such a big deal. Everything that was done with complex electromechanical bullshit back in the day can easily be done with an arduino.

program it to control the swashplates with large servos or linear actuators with position feedback.
program it to lift the wheels if you turn the wheel passed a certain degree while above whatever speed.
use a yaw sensor to make it PID correct itself to drive straight without user input when the steering wheel angle is less than 5* or some bullshit.
use a nice gaming steering wheel for input.
Give it some override switches to manually control the ride height/wheel lift or even a damned joystick so you can do cool lowrider shit.

The logic is simple. Just have to figure out how to control the existing shit with it, but if they're just solenoids it's not a big deal.

Or, depending on the amount of controls the pump needs, it could be done fully mechanical too. But it all depends on how the pumps are currently configured (servo inputs, external levers, pressure controlled, etc). Lots of unknowns without seeing the actual hardware.

 

[87manche]

Or, depending on the amount of controls the pump needs, it could be done fully mechanical too. But it all depends on how the pumps are currently configured (servo inputs, external levers, pressure controlled, etc). Lots of unknowns without seeing the actual hardware.

absolutely, but I'm a nerd so I apply software to everything.

 

[Yotota]

absolutely, but I'm a nerd so I apply software to everything.

Haha gotcha, I'm from the other side so I always want to put a lever or something mechanical on it.

Until I see the actual engine/pumps/motors I still think it could be treated as two hydrostatic transmissions, each controlled separately. Either individual mechanical controls, or a mixed software control.

 

[aczlan]

Or, depending on the amount of controls the pump needs, it could be done fully mechanical too. But it all depends on how the pumps are currently configured (servo inputs, external levers, pressure controlled, etc). Lots of unknowns without seeing the actual hardware.

From the patent application pictures I would guess pilot operated hydraulics for steering/speed (the steering wheel and fwd/rev controls were a hydraulic steering valve and a reversing valve block) and electrically controlled hydraulics for the suspension height.

Aaron Z

 

[WaterH]

Ok, some pics.

Here’s the engine from the rear of the vehicle. The radiator is on the right and the duel pumps are on the left.

This is on one of the pumps.

I believe this is on the unit that drives The two pumps. (Mounted on the engine)

Here’s a view under the side of the pumps. (The large shaft is for a wheel swing arm)

In this photo, you can see the stainless fuel tank on the bottom. Also, the green hydro resivour that only has a puddle in the bottom. If you look close, you can see a plate on the frame. Under this is where I saw a sprocket and large chain inside the frame. It was half full of oil.I’ve been dumping scrap oil in it to fill it more. The chain and sprocket that is above the oil is kind of rusty. I would really like to get it unlocked and tow it around to mix it up.

Dash

So it goes 60 mph. Lol. Note total 75 hours. Do you think the engine is any good? It does spin, but wouldn’t start with starting fluid.

Here’s what I got for steering controls.

 

[[486]]

I'd just use the existing wheel motors

figure out what the control linkage and pump setup looks like, might be dirt simple variable swashplate sundstrand type shit that'll just fuckin' work as is with new hoses and fluid (think foot-controls skid steer type of simple)

fixing shit is generally easier than re-engineering and sourcing new parts
explore you some turdpolishing of your existing parts

 

[aczlan]

I'd just use the existing wheel motors

figure out what the control linkage and pump setup looks like, might be dirt simple variable swashplate sundstrand type shit that'll just fuckin' work as is with new hoses and fluid (think foot-controls skid steer type of simple)

fixing shit is generally easier than re-engineering and sourcing new parts
explore you some turdpolishing of your existing parts

For running around the yard at skidsteer speeds, sure. Not sure I would use foot steering controls on a medium speed off-road machine like this, you hit a bump and it will push you off course.

As for the pumps and motors, contact the manufacturers (if they are still in business) with the part numbers and see what they can get you for documentation.

Aaron Z

 

[87manche]

it's got a detroit right?
either get someone that knows WTF they're doing to look at the fuel system, or get to learnin about checking injectors and the like.
and stop feeding it starting fluid.
shits terrible.

hydromatik is still a company doing business. Might be a standard pump.
get some numbers from it.