Residential rain gutter installation pros- question on install methods

[WTF?]

I’m not thrilled with a few items on my new gutter install and want to take a poll of guys in the know on the 3 items below.

(This guy was not the lowest bid I got by a solid margin, and seems willing to correct any issues but item number one could have him removing and resetting ~ 200 linear feet of gutter so not a small project.)



1) Is it acceptable to have gutters installed on the exterior side of the drip edge?

Internet search points to no and in my mind, ideally, the drip edge drips into the gutter.

Gutter crosses up and over drip edge here in this pic from the downhill side of the slope;

2) am I correct to assume this open ended gutter pictured going to shoot water under the shingles and/or into the step flashing during heavy rain (~25’ run with slope break in the center of run)?

I think a closed end with gooseneck discharging into the perpendicular gutter below is a better solution.

[

3) Is it unreasonable to state that the downspout below installed on the column is unsightly and should be at the opposite end by the valley?;

UPDATE:
Sent a pic and question about item 1 to the contractor and he agreed that it was installed incorrectly by his sub and will correct the issue while also fixing 2 & 3 next week.

 

[Eric642]

I agree with you on 1+2.
3 I think it would have looked better on the other end but MAYBE it is better to get the water further away from the house since it looks to be just emptying onto the grass.

 

[bgaidan]

#2 was installed by a retard.

Since it's such a short drop between the lower gutter, I'd put the low spot right over that and a downspout straight down in to the other gutter with a 90 or 45 shooting toward the lower downspout. I don't like when the dump an upper gutter on to the roof and let it drain to a lower. Sometimes it's the only option, but I'd avoid it where possible.

3 I think it would have looked better on the other end but MAYBE it is better to get the water further away from the house since it looks to be just emptying onto the grass.

This looks like a pretty similar layout to my old place. The PO there ran some 4" PVC barely buried along the edge of the foundation and ran it along the front of the house, around the corner and it eventually daylighted around the back and pushed the water far enough away from the house to never be an issue. The two front downspouts dumped in to that. Worked well sine the slop of the front yard would not allow them to drain well otherwise.


Depending what the grades are, he could do something similar, or at least run a ~3' extension on the ground to the edge of the bed there.

 

[speed bump]

1 I'm kind of meh on, the hangers are installed incorrectly though.

2 I don't like and would have them fix

3 you need to tell them where you want down spouts before they start or they do that.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

I think all 3 are wrong.

#3 forces all the water from both roofs to travel in the gutter. If the downspout was closer to the valley, then at least the water from that roof goes directly into downspout. Less chance of overflow, but should have been discussed previously.

#2 even if the water doesn't get "shot under the shingles" it will still wear away the shingles at that location prematurely.

#1 I would have installed with the drip edge into the gutter. I've even had to caulk between shingles and/or steel roofing because the water would stick to the underside and go back uphill. Fucking water. It's worse than magnets!

Edit: Oh, and if you want something done right, do it yourself. Every time!

 

[Animalmother]

Following because I may do gutters on my house.

 

[WTF?]

1 the hangers are installed incorrectly though.

Nice catch! I hadn't even noticed that yet... I guess that serves as a secondary supporting reason to take off and re-set everything with drip edge falling into gutter. Edit: I think with that quarter round upper lip on the back side of the gutter, those hangars won’t fit/ work as designed.

3 you need to tell them where you want down spouts before they start or they do that.

yeah we discussed it before hand, and that we were generally going with the prior layout with a few modifications ( downspout was previously on the left end in the one in question; I believe the issue is that the subcontractor who installed the gutters was not the same crew that removed them for fascia rot repairs needed before installing the roof.)

I have already discussed that with him and he said they'd replace it the way I wanted without a moment's hesitation. this one was last because i wanted a temperature check on it.
My initial instinct/thought was that logically you wouldn't want to mount a downspout on a column in front of the front door unless you had no other viable alternative.
(I also have a craftsman pyramid column wrap project that material is on hand for and at the top of the next steps punch list for the exterior renovations.)

 

[WTF?]

Following because I may do gutters on my house.

• Be very thorough in your layout/plan discussions.
• collect multiple bids- there was a 250% spread between the low bid and the high bid on this project over 4-5 bids.

 

[WTF?]

This looks like a pretty similar layout to my old place. The PO there ran some 4" PVC barely buried along the edge of the foundation and ran it along the front of the house, around the corner and it eventually daylighted around the back and pushed the water far enough away from the house to never be an issue. The two front downspouts dumped in to that. Worked well sine the slop of the front yard would not allow them to drain well otherwise.


Depending what the grades are, he could do something similar, or at least run a ~3' extension on the ground to the edge of the bed there.

there's actually an old concrete sidewalk under that downspout as placed that ends about a foot past the front door, so its not going to drain well, but contractor was unaware.
( i'm eventually going to re commission that sidewalk with stone pavers glued to it and convert back to front entrance, but that's in the 3-5 yr plan)

as previously installed the downspout off the left end by the valley had a 3' extension on the bottom discharge outlet to get water away from the foundation.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

When the gutter top is lower than the drip edge bottom what do you do? Install a piece of flashing to make up the gap?

 

[WTF?]

When the gutter top is lower than the drip edge bottom what do you do? Install a piece of flashing to make up the gap?

the drip edge profile has a kickout/flare at the bottom edge to place drips away from the fascia and the gutter edge has a quarter round extending to the fascia, so the drips would theoretically fall down into the gutter:

 

[SomeGuyFromOlympia]

ever seen a gutter crew?

They are not the sharpest bunch

 

[WTF?]

Bumping this to page 1 for the Monday morning crowd.

Primarily seeking an authoritative/ definitive answer on item number 1) with the proper installation technique with respect to the drip edge.

 

[quigleysiding]

If they loosen up the screws where the drip goes behind the gutter, they should be able to lift the drip and put it in front of the gutter then tighten it back up. All in all its a pretty crappy job they did.

 

[Here4memes]

If you plan to install gutter guards, you will need the hangers installed exactly like they did. If you hook them on the back top, the way they supposed to go, then the gutter guards will sit uneven and just dump most the water out.

I'm a big fan of GG's. But good ones made of aluminum, not plastic.

Drip edge goes over the gutter.

I'm obsessive with my downspouts. I'd install another one along every run 20' or more. But that's just me...

The best gutters are no gutters if you can do without. No matter what you do to gutters there will always be maintenance involved.

 

[WTF?]

If they loosen up the screws where the drip goes behind the gutter, they should be able to lift the drip and put it in front of the gutter then tighten it back up. All in all its a pretty crappy job they did.

And you’re a siding and gutter contractor, is that correct?

I Did the remove and pry up the pinched drip edge routine on my previously installed gutters, but the screws are penetrating the face on the drip edge on the high ends of the slope runs of the current install.

 

[Clb]

In a former life, I was a
B class building G.c.
A is general engineering.

Fwiw
Everything should be done the same way.
PERIOD
That said, old school drip edge was 3"x 1" 3 up 1 over so the water couldn't migrate up ,from wind ect.
Today's china 1x1" shit not so much, it is supposed to transfer the drip away from the wood.
So with a minimum return gutters of today, with less than 1" under the comp. I'd want it over the gutter.

Eta
gutter on the sheathing, paper over gutter, drip edge over paper dumping into gutter, comp.
inna perfect world the hangers are 4" up the sheathing and extend to the face of gutter.
end edit.

Not sure of the situation cuz 2" screen on my fone.
But the hangers being punched thru the fascia and transmitting the water into the wood, is weak.
Just a personal bitch.
Oh and in b4 the tinners come in saying
"It's fine, that's how we do it..."

 

[Hooligan]

I’m just a homeowner, on mine the gutter was 60’ run, to get the proper fall for drainage the gutter was below the drip edge. Drip edge wasn’t tall enough. I always thought it was goofy and that they should have installed a taller drip.

We had it redone and now the drip goes into the gutter

 

[Clb]

I eta the above.
Question #2
That's common, I used to have a flashing made to help shield water from running uphill.

Every single sub said
"The gluestrip stops that."

#3
Drops
Should transfer the h2o far away from the house, but also be pleasant to live with.
So in this instance, you wanted to go against common practices, thus "you" should have specified the placement...
That's why we have flex conduit for gutters...

 

[WTF?]

That said, old school drip edge was 3"x 1" 3 up 1 over so the water couldn't migrate up ,from wind ect.
Today's china 1x1" shit not so much, it is supposed to transfer the drip away from the wood.
So with a minimum return gutters of today, with less than 1" under the comp. I'd want it over the gutter.

the drip edge product used specs at 3" under the shingle and 1.5" vertical fascia coverage. Does that modify your approach recommendation at all?

 

[WTF?]

If you plan to install gutter guards, you will need the hangers installed exactly like they did. If you hook them on the back top, the way they supposed to go, then the gutter guards will sit uneven and just dump most the water out.

I'm a big fan of GG's. But good ones made of aluminum, not plastic.

Drip edge goes over the gutter.

I'm obsessive with my downspouts. I'd install another one along every run 20' or more. But that's just me...

The best gutters are no gutters if you can do without. No matter what you do to gutters there will always be maintenance involved.

Tree coverage/ leaf & pine needle debris is a factor for only about 25 linear feet of gutter out of ~200 lf total.

 

[Clb]

No.
That's the good stuff, it should be over the gutter and inside the open top edge, unless the gutter return is longer up the roofline.

If the gutters are + 1 1/2" below the sheathing....
You gots issues

 

[WTF?]

No.
That's the good stuff, it should be over the gutter and inside the open top edge, unless the gutter return is longer up the roofline.

So how would you screw the gutter mount in underneath the drip edge? Bend/ Pry 1.5" leg of drip edge upwards and then bend back down?

If the gutters are + 1 1/2" below the sheathing....
You gots issues

it would be extremely close- My longest single run is ~ 45' is gutter slope of 0.25"/ 10 ' acceptable? ( this circles back to the above question of how to screw the gutter mount in ~ 0.5" below sheathing surface underneath the 1.5" vertical Fascia side of the drip edge. )

And to confirm i'm understanding , you're saying this ~1/2" of exposed white aluminum fascia wrap between the tip of gutter and bottom lip of drip edge circled in red is an 'issue'? ( red circle is probably 22' down a 24' total run)

 

[Clb]

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwjb-MCKy4aHAxUtHq0GHY87ClEYABArGgJwdg&ase=2&gclid=CjwKCAjwp4m0BhBAEiwAsdc4aIlomTRvPhzYk9CLdW-n8IhZoEwgj6ODhp__q31kMRdiuHn9iBYWqRoC8ygQAvD_BwE&sph=&sig=AOD64_14tWhFew6LY-Q5PoJWGMD1-hkSkw&ctype=46&q=&nis=4&ved=2ahUKEwip4LmKy4aHAxWJJTQIHZrKBNIQzzkoAHoECAIQDA&adurl=

Homo depot link

 

[Clb]

Pic in post 23
Yes it's allowing the water to backtrack.
If there's no way for the water to migrate up to the wood then it's probably going to be ok ish.
The old stuff used to have bigger returns to the roof.
Remember
water will find its own level and run out the trough even if level ( for discussion purposes)
Stick a hose it it runnig uphill and watch the outcome...
If it's confusing, and you want to call me Send a Pm

 

[jeeptj19992001]

Get rid of downspout on #3 and install a rain chain

 

[Clb]

Here's some results of shitty installs.
And reasons why you want to call him on some of his work.
Not saying that you have shity work.

 

[78bronco460]

<Not a pro, the first time I put new gutters on my house i snapped a line, hung the gutters, put in the downspouts, stood back and looked, and said “Fuck me!”. They were perfectly level.
I did it all over.

 

[Grnjp92]

In theory you can run k gutters dead level. But yes, behind the drip. Or if you are putting a drop that is more then the drip. You bend something to bridge the gap. That said, some gutter guards have specs that you need to follow.

 

[quigleysiding]

And you’re a siding and gutter contractor, is that correct?

I Did the remove and pry up the pinched drip edge routine on my previously installed gutters, but the screws are penetrating the face on the drip edge on the high ends of the slope runs of the current install.

Yes I install siding and have a gutter company. South Country Seamless Gutters- 401-323-9284 | Serving Rhode Island for 29 Years

Ya you might have a few screw holes in the drip but drip should be over the gutter. ,Its almost impossible to get the whole gutter under the drip on longer lengths as it needs to drain. If you are getting water behind it at the lower end, we usually install a flashing that goes under the drip and over the gutter. Usually just left-over trim coil from our siding jobs.