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REAR STEER AXLE IDEAL/QUESTIONS.

6gun

6gun

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2020
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1975
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64
Looking into installing rear steer in my big gay mini-monster '99 Ranger that currently rides on '06 F35 F&R axles. Truck gets used hard but not beaten on just good old recreational wheeling. Not gonna lie the rear steer will be used more for car shows/parades and such. I'm thinking of grabbing a front 2wd axle from an F450/550 since the knuckles out are the same as the 4wd units aside from different UBs. Install those on a 10.5" center section and tubes using two long side shafts cut to right length. Am I on the right track? I already have a spare 10.5" laying around, proper gears and locker and all. Although a selectable locker might be a worthwhile investment in this project. Thanks for the help!

Alrighty, fire away with the comments!
 
No need for selectable if you have rear steer.

Stock shafts will break.

If you drive it on the road, think about how you're gonna center it.
 
If you take a front axle and put it in the rear would you run reverse rotation gears, or regular gears like you’re driving in reverse everywhere? Asking because I really don’t know.
 
RunningProblem said:
If you take a front axle and put it in the rear would you run reverse rotation gears, or regular gears like you’re driving in reverse everywhere? Asking because I really don’t know.
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You run normal gears, on the coast side.

Reverse rotation gears have nothing to do with the position of the axle (front or rear).
 
Bebop said:
No need for selectable if you have rear steer.

Stock shafts will break.

If you drive it on the road, think about how you're gonna center it.
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Definitely gonna have a tab with locking pin to keep things straight! Also will probably run it on an electric pump with cutoff outside the cab just to be sure nothing gets accidentally energized during driving. Edited for clarification.
RustyC said:
What's ideal about it?
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It will look cool and impress all the womenz! Ain't that what life's about?
 
Bebop said:
You run normal gears, on the coast side.

Reverse rotation gears have nothing to do with the position of the axle (front or rear).
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I figured they went on coast side. Part of me was thinking reverse rotation gears in the rear would use the drive side. I know the ‘reverse’ is being high pinion. Once I wrote it I kinda realized how dumb it would be.
 
Selectable locker helps with maneuverability but not as much as rear steer.
Besides picking up women, what is the intended use? Rocks, mud, hill climbing, show, snow, sand....
10.5" ford or Chevy center section? Or something else? That'd be running drive side in the rear typically unless you do really weird things.
You'll also need to figure out tube seals at some point. That's not a big deal but depends on the center section for what works well.
Cut and resplined stock shafts are mush and should not be relied upon, but custom length chromoly inners are easy to get any more. Depending on the center section, cut and resplined may not be an option dimensionally anyway.
The 2wd beam is probably not a bad parts source for the knuckles and maybe some brake parts, but that's about it. F250-350 superduty generation 4x front ends are starting to show up in pick n pull yards for a couple hundred bucks around here, not necessarily reliably, but you get a lot more usable parts that way. May be worth looking to see if you can get more for your junkyard money in that.
 
ScottRS said:
Selectable locker helps with maneuverability but not as much as rear steer.
Besides picking up women, what is the intended use? Rocks, mud, hill climbing, show, snow, sand....
10.5" ford or Chevy center section? Or something else? That'd be running drive side in the rear typically unless you do really weird things.
You'll also need to figure out tube seals at some point. That's not a big deal but depends on the center section for what works well.
Cut and resplined stock shafts are mush and should not be relied upon, but custom length chromoly inners are easy to get any more. Depending on the center section, cut and resplined may not be an option dimensionally anyway.
The 2wd beam is probably not a bad parts source for the knuckles and maybe some brake parts, but that's about it. F250-350 superduty generation 4x front ends are starting to show up in pick n pull yards for a couple hundred bucks around here, not necessarily reliably, but you get a lot more usable parts that way. May be worth looking to see if you can get more for your junkyard money in that.
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Intended use is primarily a mix of everything, in the SE you have it all and this is built as a "do it all truck"! I also go out West occasionally so throw some rocks stupid tight switchbacks/shelf roads in for fun. I'm a very mild driver, not one of those who TRY to break things.

I have a 10.5" Ford already so that is the planned donor for center section and tubes. That way the gears are operating as designed. Good point on tube seals!

I'm using the Ford factory 1550 axles on the front and can't imagine why those wouldn't hold up, plus they're plenty long enough! I still need to measure to make sure theirs enough meat to be re-splined properly, if not custom it will be! Gonna be watching for a cheap enough 4X front to start with, plus that will give me an extra axle shaft to start with and may wind up just re-tubing it to center it and go with that!
 
Coyote said:
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I can telll from the picture that this is how monster trucks were doing it 30 years ago.. and the parts dont need to be that large.

everything is possible if you want it bad enough.. my experience is its as PITA and that's why it hasn't caught on more.

Years ago I built something like this for a friend as a rear steer axle based on Dana 60 parts.. it worked "ok-ish". cant seem to find my pictures t the moment.:homer:
1667929513173.jpeg
 

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urjb said:
I can telll from the picture that this is how monster trucks were doing it 30 years ago.. and the parts dont need to be that large.

everything is possible if you want it bad enough.. my experience is its as PITA and that's why it hasn't caught on more.

Years ago I built something like this for a friend as a rear steer axle based on Dana 60 parts.. it worked "ok-ish". cant seem to find my pictures t the moment.:homer:
1667929513173.jpeg
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I'm surprised no one has tried to do the whole Atomic Axle idea again.
 
stolen from another (cough) site.. not sure if this is originally my picture or someone else's. but this is what I was talking about.
 

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Bebop said:
Because as soon as you put any kind of thought to it you realize it's stupid ?
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Why is that? People do portals all the time. It’s kind of the same thing except no extra gearboxes. I wonder if you had RCVs in there, would they warrantee them for life?
 
I don't think the concept is that great.
I'm not sure there is any way to make this design strong enough to make it last behind any kind of abuse.
Or at least not the kind of abuse I (and my friends) would put them through.
 
It was definitely a different direction when Atomic brought it out. I think their major mistake was going with a 9" at a time when the 9" was not as strong as they are today.

At first glance it does seem complicated, but, the complexity was needed with the idea.

It could definitely be done better today with all the things we've learned in the 4x4 industry.

Atomic axle style high diff with portals and rear steer? :eek: Diff clearance for days. But the Juice probably won't be worth the squeeze.

There was a guy on the old board that had a box Chevy with a tube frame axle built from H1 components. Wonder whatever happened to that?
 
Bebop said:
I don't think the concept is that great.
I'm not sure there is any way to make this design strong enough to make it last behind any kind of abuse.
Or at least not the kind of abuse I (and my friends) would put them through.
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Is it weaker than a standard 14 bolt or Sterling? Sure. But, if you have rear steer, you have a universal (or RCV). I would assume that is the weak point. But why is two in line any weaker? So are you saying you and your friends can’t have rear steer?
 
Bebop said:
I don't think the concept is that great.
I'm not sure there is any way to make this design strong enough to make it last behind any kind of abuse.
Or at least not the kind of abuse I (and my friends) would put them through.
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I think you’re wrong about that. I think the concept is awesome. The bottom lip of the diff at the center line of the hub is a great idea. Problem is it requires a housing with windows in it which lends to being to heavy and some weakness induced.

Portals have eliminated the problems while solving a few extras.
 
WaterH said:
I would change this statement to “Portals have eliminated some problems while creating some others”. There are always compromises.
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Do you know anyone running portals? Have you been out personally wheeling with guys with portals? I have, and I have yet to see a single down side with the JHF portal axles. Only seeing benefits.

Now, I wouldn’t waste my time with unimog portals. I haven’t seen those work out well yet for a crawler.
 
I don't want to see presumptuous, but I think JHF portals would break like twigs under the abuse we (bouncer guys) put our cars through. And they are a giant pain to package with any kind of uptravel.

Direct drive big bells work great for rear steer applications, even in high hp rigs. RCV makes the 30 series CVs so it's not a shaft thing. I don't think there is a way to make the Atomic style housings to hold to the abuse. That's it.
 
I am no expert on this by any means, but from my understanding portals increase the torsional load on the A arms if IFS or on axle itself for solid axle. This would mean you would have to build your setup to compensate for this additional torsional load.

Looking knowledge on this, so someone school me.
 
JR4X said:
Now, I wouldn’t waste my time with unimog portals. I haven’t seen those work out well yet for a crawler.
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I don't know, it seemed like they worked pretty well on JR's rigs and TJMark on the old forum, hell, JR won the first King of the Hammers and that same rig has been running in 4400 for over a decade. TimJus seems to be happy with his too, although he is not running the 404s.

Sure the 404 casting could break under heavy rigs and extreme abuse, but the weld-on "Horse shoe" seemed to solve the breakage from what I've seen and read. I think the main appeal of the H1 portals is that they are lighter, have the much more common and supported 8 on 6.5" pattern, and are domestic, so should be cheaper and have better availability theoretically.
 
JR4X said:
Do you know anyone running portals? Have you been out personally wheeling with guys with portals? I have, and I have yet to see a single down side with the JHF portal axles. Only seeing benefits.

Now, I wouldn’t waste my time with unimog portals. I haven’t seen those work out well yet for a crawler.
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I only know one guy running mogs and he has broke one. I’m not basing my statements on him. Im not dissing portals. ( I like em) I’m just saying it’s another gear box at each wheel. A gear box has all the standard problems that gear boxes have. If it’s rear steer, it still needs a universal. (or RCV) When you say “only benefits” , what about weight? Another thing to leak? Scrub radius?

Bebop said:
I don't want to see presumptuous, but I think JHF portals would break like twigs under the abuse we (bouncer guys) put our cars through. And they are a giant pain to package with any kind of uptravel.

Direct drive big bells work great for rear steer applications, even in high hp rigs. RCV makes the 30 series CVs so it's not a shaft thing. I don't think there is a way to make the Atomic style housings to hold to the abuse. That's it.
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Why can’t an atomic style axle run four big bells? If the housing is not strong enough, add iron.
 
That’s pretty wild. Never saw it on the old platform. I’m not a fan of “one link” suspension, but I have no experience with them.
 
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