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Rear steer.....and go

Wow thats alot of additional weight. I was just going to steer one axle at a time to avoid a bunch of extra stuff. Im pretty green on the subject though.
 
It depends what your goals are for the rig as well as your packaging constraints and budget but there are a few ways to go about it.

Single pump front and rear can be done with either a manual "log splitter" or electric solenoid valve (both of which I stock). Either can be set up so that front and rear can operate simultaneous although ultimately when using both at the same time, the pumps energy is getting split between front and rear either by pressure or flow depending on how the valves are arranged.

Two pumps will get you truly independent front and rear steering but means more components (cost and packaging) and you have the same valve options.

Finally you can use a 12V electric hydraulic pump like the one shown in the BK kit which gets you independent rear steer but is typically on the slow side.

Automatic self-centering can be done only with the electric solenoid valves or an electric hydraulic pump and requires a position sensor and control unit which is what accounts for a significant portion of the cost in the BK kit. Is automatic self-centering something that you consider a necessity or is there anything else that you are looking for in how you control your rear steer beyond a "log splitter" type valve?
 
I am looking at doing this on a turbo suzuki 1.6 8v

this is the factory pump
CARDONE 215896
 
Yes, either rear steer valve can be used with essentially any pump (I generally recommend against P pumps if it can be avoided). There is a common misconception that to run front and rear steer off of a single steering pump requires twice as much pump capacity but since you can only ever fully use front or rear at a time in a single pump system, you don't need any more pump flow to additionally run rear steer than you would need anyways for a good front steering full hydro system.

While there are some alternative options, this 4-port rear steer setup is the most common plumbing arrangement for a single pump system. The rear steer return feeds the front so you can use both at the same time but during simultaneous operation, the available pressure gets split between the two so if the steering stalls, you just have to remember to let off the steering wheel or the rear steer momentarily:
RD_SteeringSystem_FrontSteer_w4PortRearSteer_jpg.jpg


I don't know what flow or pressure a stock sami pump is producing but it is probably not a lot. However, considering the 1.6 motor is not producing a lot of horsepower, I would recommend a TC pump as the best option since it is smaller displacement and therefore going to consume less HP than a P or CBR pump.

The 12V pump you shared above is a viable option but with a fixed flow rate of 1.5 GPM, it is going to be fairly slow to act. I do have customers using similar pumps and one of the only real issues with it other than speed is that the solenoid coils tend to not be great at dealing with the elements.
 
The 12v systems can work good, especially if you run a high output alternator (Mechman or similar) so you don't have voltage drop when working the rear steer in the rocks. And you have to size the cylinder properly to get speed. Usually the 12v systems are lower flow and higher pressure than a traditional steering pump, so a smaller ram can be used to get the speed back (if speed is necessary in rear steer).

Slow crawling work is "harder" on the steering than a race buggy that is moving fast or spinning the tires and just bumping the rear to swing around an obstacle/corner.
 
Yes, either rear steer valve can be used with essentially any pump (I generally recommend against P pumps if it can be avoided). There is a common misconception that to run front and rear steer off of a single steering pump requires twice as much pump capacity but since you can only ever fully use front or rear at a time in a single pump system, you don't need any more pump flow to additionally run rear steer than you would need anyways for a good front steering full hydro system.

While there are some alternative options, this 4-port rear steer setup is the most common plumbing arrangement for a single pump system. The rear steer return feeds the front so you can use both at the same time but during simultaneous operation, the available pressure gets split between the two so if the steering stalls, you just have to remember to let off the steering wheel or the rear steer momentarily:
RD_SteeringSystem_FrontSteer_w4PortRearSteer_jpg.jpg


I don't know what flow or pressure a stock sami pump is producing but it is probably not a lot. However, considering the 1.6 motor is not producing a lot of horsepower, I would recommend a TC pump as the best option since it is smaller displacement and therefore going to consume less HP than a P or CBR pump.

The 12V pump you shared above is a viable option but with a fixed flow rate of 1.5 GPM, it is going to be fairly slow to act. I do have customers using similar pumps and one of the only real issues with it other than speed is that the solenoid coils tend to not be great at dealing with the elements.
I have a rear steer samurai plumbed exactly like that in my garage.
Uses a TC pump and a 4.5" pulley. TC pump bracket bought from LowRange Ofrroad. PSC pulley.

Work amazing, literally 0 complaints.
 
I have a rear steer samurai plumbed exactly like that in my garage.
Uses a TC pump and a 4.5" pulley. TC pump bracket bought from LowRange Ofrroad. PSC pulley.

Work amazing, literally 0 complaints.

What size/type rams does it have?
 
Dual Trail Gears. 2x6 (yota axles).
 
I run two CB pumps (stock parts-store 90's Saturn application, converted to remote reservoir, and Afco AN-6 outlets) for my system. Merged flow; I have run with a failed pump (one good, one bad, effectively same thing as only having one pump) in the past and it works, but it slows things down noticeably. That's with 2.75x8 cylinders both ends, and the last time I was running on a failed pump, was on a 4500-pound car with 42's. If you're lighter or smaller-tires, either of those helps. P pump is better (marginally) than a CB for that, but there's so much "it depends" in there that it's hard to say "here's the way".
 
I’m just waiting on axles to complete my rear steer build
It’s plumed like the diagram with a single p pump.
Why would one want to steer away from the p pump?
It’s on a 5.3
 
I’m just waiting on axles to complete my rear steer build
It’s plumed like the diagram with a single p pump.
Why would one want to steer away from the p pump?
It’s on a 5.3
My reason for avoiding a P pump if possible is that of the typical pumps available and often used for full hydro systems, P pumps are generally the least suited to the application.

For starters, leaks in the o-ring seal between the pump casting and the sheet metal "canned ham" reservoir are common on many P pumps I have dealt with but more importantly, the internal passages in the P pump casting are not large enough to support higher discharge flow rates, leading to cavitation.

Additionally, most pumps for full hydro have been modified to put out a higher pressure before the relief valve opens and this higher pressure equates to a proportionally higher side load on the pump shaft. P pumps have a bushing supported shaft and the bushings tend to wear out quicker than would a pump with a bearing supported shaft.

There are plenty of people who will run a P pump for years without issue but there are also many who have had nothing but problems with P pumps and with better pump options being readily available, I rarely sell P pumps.
 
bumping this up again....
changing to cbr over p on 5.3, factory is there anything that has to change? pulleys belts or is a direct swap. i dont think i have ever held or seen a cbr pump upclose to compare? neeb question i know.
 
Pulley, belt, plumbing, accessory mounts,... Everything basically.
 
Plenty.
It's completely fine for crawling, not for fast driving / bouncing.
 
I use a single cbr pump .. Works well with 2.5" rams .. Also use a eaton orbital so its a load reacting type which i prefer.. And also sized it for 3 turns lock to lock.. My rear im running a 12v spool valve with a switch on my shifter .. If anything the rear turns a bit too quick
 
Anyone using the volvo electric power steering pump?

I know the Mercury outboard pump is 1700psi and 4.4 GPM. Same pump I believe
 
and how many people use a single pump. it seems common.
I use a single TC pump (mine is parts store drilled out/ wife’s is 1650psi Tg pump) and they work great. Cars are between 2900-3300lbs both have 2.5” rear rams. All the cars I have put rear steer on have been single pumps(PSC).
 
and how many people use a single pump. it seems common.

My last rig had a single P pump that was built up to max capacity by Lee's Steering with 2 psc 3x9 rams and a RTC kit from Leeroy latham and an electric single pole 13gpm valve + 15.26CI-250ML obrital. it all came together nicely and did good. my new setup i'm gonna be running a system similar to Scotts Offroad hydraulic pump.
The P pump had issues like Radial Dynamics stated above, the can leaking etc, but it was pretty spread out between incidents so i just ran with it.

Here's my build thread so far, pump setup is on page 3

 
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I hate to bring a thread from the dead but is anyone using dual TC pumps with dual 2.75 x10 rams
 
kind of debunked before that the dual pumps idea isn't necessary...

pushing 2 - 3x9 rams with 1 of these.


works great
 
I hate to bring a thread from the dead but is anyone using dual TC pumps with dual 2.75 x10 rams
If you think you need that much pump you are better off doing the Scott’s Offroad gear pump. It’s one pump for the price of two but it’s 5 times the pump. If I ever get around to building my rear steer buggy it’s the pump I plan to use.
 
If you think you need that much pump you are better off doing the Scott’s Offroad gear pump. It’s one pump for the price of two but it’s 5 times the pump. If I ever get around to building my rear steer buggy it’s the pump I plan to use.

Any flow numbers on it? I did some quick searching and didn't find it, but found a post where Matt Cutler mentioned it was rated for 6000 RPM intermittently and ad a 2000psi relief.
 
Any flow numbers on it? I did some quick searching and didn't find it, but found a post where Matt Cutler mentioned it was rated for 6000 RPM intermittently and ad a 2000psi relief.
20cc/rev
Careful, the low RPM performance isn't that great, there is a bunch of losses.
 
Any flow numbers on it? I did some quick searching and didn't find it, but found a post where Matt Cutler mentioned it was rated for 6000 RPM intermittently and ad a 2000psi relief.
Up to 20 gpm @ 2000 psi. You’ll notice anyone complaining about them run LS’s and think they need to live at 6000 rpm all the time so they have to run it too slow at idle. Looking at you Bebop

To be fair, I couldn’t run one on my ecoboost because the rpm range I live at is no less than 3000 on the low end and get with the rev limiter at 6500 rpm all the time.
 
20cc/rev
Careful, the low RPM performance isn't that great, there is a bunch of losses.
So same as the $2,000 RDT pump? Even with the losses, seems like for $700, it could be a good fit for a crawler application that needs maximum speed near idle and rarely hits 6,000 RPM. I want to say I've seen Eric post that the RDT is good for 8,000-9,000 RPM though? I am sure the RDT is a superior product, but for $700 vs. $2,000, is it really worth it for a recreational application? I was doing some math the other day, and it takes a shit ton of volume to have reasonably fast steering with a 3" ram.
 
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I was doing some math the other day, and it takes a shit to of volume to have reasonably fast steering with a 3" ram.
Facts.
Your wallet does the chsosing I guess, but I know what I got.

Up to 20 gpm @ 2000 psi. You’ll notice anyone complaining about them run LS’s and think they need to live at 6000 rpm all the time so they have to run it too slow at idle. Looking at you Bebop

To be fair, I couldn’t run one on my ecoboost because the rpm range I live at is no less than 3000 on the low end and get with the rev limiter at 6500 rpm all the time.
Crawling is boring AF, sorry I guess
 
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