Radiators with auto trans coolers

[Austin]

Shopping for a new radiator and it's not much more to get the extra ports (and internals) for the automatic transmission cooler. I'll likely get it to have it, but I'm curious if there are other fluids that are worth using that for. I realize it may actually heat up some fluid to more than what they should be.... which is why I've seen overlanders use it for hot water. But realistically, given it's smaller size and it sitting in a warmer environment already is that part of the radiator a good substation for dedicated coolers for anything like engine oil, manual trans, hydro, etc?

 

[FordFascist]

They are good for automatic transmissions because they get the fluid up to temp quickly and keep it there. As far as engine oil, I'm sure they would work for that, but most opt for a separate fluid to fluid exchanger rather than run the lines up to the radiator. Almost all OEMs run them today even in light duty applications but I suspect it's more for emissions / oil temp consistency when running thinner oils.

 

[PAE]

The integral ATF/OIL coolers fail and mostly are overlooked by radiator rrebuild shops, that situation smoked a T400 build of mine and most likely the 6.2l engine it was connected as well.

I made bank on that truck.

 

[TrailTamer]

You running an automatic transmission? I’ll use it to run the oil through it first before going to the air to air cooler.

 

[Austin]

You running an automatic transmission?

I'll have a manual ... that will likely be spinning faster for longer than it was designed for ..... but it was more of a general question as to other uses.

 

[Stingray]

I'll have a manual ... that will likely be spinning faster for longer than it was designed for ..... but it was more of a general question as to other uses.

Are you looking to run a pump into a cooler for that?
I did a little research for my dual case setup to cool it.

Driftmotion Manual Transmission Oil Cooler Kit

Driftmotion Manual Transmission Oil Cooler Kit

www.driftmotion.com

I would not use the radiator, But I have Toyotas and they are famous for pink milkshake.

 

[BDK]

Is it for a trail rig? I bypassed mine, I have a 700R4 in my trail rig. It was heating up the fluid like it's supposed to, and the trans would get very hot. I bypassed it so the fluid runs straight to the two coolers I have in front of the radiator. Trans runs cooler now and so does the engine. I also like the idea of having separate systems in a trail rig so if one fails it doesn't take other stuff with it. If you are thinking of adding capacity by using it, I don't think they hold enough to be worth the effort.

 

[arse_sidewards]

The integrated coolers are too small for to flow engine oil without a huge pressure drop but I'd have no problem running one to cool a stock P/S system.

I think they're worth running just to get things up to temp quicker and because when you do something that makes the trans hot as fuck the water is going to do a lot to knock that temp down before the air cooler deals with the rest. They don't dump enough heat into your coolant to overheat stuff unless your cooling system is undersized (in either fluid capacity or rate of heat removal).

 

[Bebop]

The integrated coolers are too small for to flow engine oil without a huge pressure drop but I'd have no problem running one to cool a stock P/S system.

All the turnkey Bombers run an integrated heat exchangers to cool/heat their engine oil.
My stock GMT800 truck does too.

 

[Gdogg]

I've seen some GM stuff plumbed to run engine oil through the radiator from the factory.
You always run the trans fluid through the radiator first then through the air to air. If you have a hot piece of steel and stick it in a bucket water what happens, it you just waved it the air how long till it cools.... the bucket of quenches it and takes it to coolant temp then the air to air is more effective.
A transmission burns up north of 300* so keeping it around 200* is just fine. I've been involved in some of this testing at a place I use to work.

 

[arse_sidewards]

All the turnkey Bombers run an integrated heat exchangers to cool/heat their engine oil.
My stock GMT800 truck does too.

The GMT400 and GMT800 oil cooler is a leak prone POS.

Basically all the other OEMs use a heat exchanger mounted at/near the oil filter for cooling the engine oil.

 

[Bebop]

The GMT400 and GMT800 oil cooler is a leak prone POS.

That has nothing to do with performance and pressure drop though.

 

[CarterKraft]

None of my info is factual just my experience.

It seems to me that there is something to be gained from using fluid to fluid heat exchangers and the largest radiator possible.

In all the equipment I work on that's how it's done, the Ford 6.7 diesel has cooling system with similar design, many smaller heat exchanger etc.
Normally the tank of a radiator is "wasted" space. Putting a heat exchanger in the tank is a good use of space IMO.

I've read tons of these forums arguing about it but engineers usually tell you some particular "rules" about thermodynamics and heat always flows to cold, not cold to hot.

 

[NOODLES]

I would not run that for even its intended purpose on anything I want to keep or care about. Always bypass that trans cooler and also install an external if possible.

 

[CarterKraft]

I would not run that for even its intended purpose on anything I want to keep or care about. Always bypass that trans cooler and also install an external if possible.

See

 

[NOODLES]

See

See what.

 

[NOODLES]

See

 

[arse_sidewards]

See

INB4 "you need backpressure to make torque"

 

[TrailTamer]

NOODLES how often that actually happen to you or anyone on here?

I know this type of failure where a liquid to liquid cooler sprung a leak and allow oil or coolant to leak into one or other is a real thing. But the real question is how common is this?

 

[arse_sidewards]

NOODLES how often that actually happen to you or anyone on here?

I know this type of failure where a liquid to liquid cooler sprung a leak and allow oil or coolant to leak into one or other is a real thing. But the real question is how common is this?

If you don't own an Xterra? Basically unheard of.

 

[Bebop]

Lots and lots of trophy trucks running inside rad heat exchangers.

It's not limited to OEMs.

Fluid to Fluid is more efficient.

 

[TrailTamer]

Fluid to Fluid is more efficient.

Absolutely.

Liquid-to-liquid cooler can be more compact and before anyone says it "heat up oil" but its not. The oil cooler typically is on the cool side of the radiator/cooling circuit.... Liquid to liquid cooler work well even with smaller ▲T.

Liquid to air cooler need much larger ▲T. And have hotter air from the liquid-to-air cooler to cool the engine radiator....

 

[arse_sidewards]

Absolutely.

Liquid-to-liquid cooler can be more compact and before anyone says it "heat up oil" but its not. The oil cooler typically is on the cool side of the radiator/cooling circuit....

Exploder 5.0 has entered the chat.

Coolant is what, 250 tops? Oil is plenty happy at that temp. And then you've just moved head from the oil to the coolant so your coolant will be entering the radiator hotter making the radiator more efficient at shedding heat so even if the coolant comes back in a little hotter you're still removing more heat from the engine that way than you would be without the oil cooler.

IMO it doesn't matter much if you feed the oil cooler hot coolant or cold coolant.

 

[NOODLES]

NOODLES how often that actually happen to you or anyone on here?

I know this type of failure where a liquid to liquid cooler sprung a leak and allow oil or coolant to leak into one or other is a real thing. But the real question is how common is this?

When you work in automotive, and started in mostly transmission shops, often enough. Nothing like having a trans rebuilt because all the clutches have been steamed off inside it.

 

[mobil1syn]

i have no issues with fluid to fluid heat exchangers, what i do have a problem with is cheap replacement radiators.

 

[NOODLES]

To purposefully put a component at the risk of intermix is stupid. Especially when it is less work to just simply avoid the issue. It does not have to be a cheap radiator. I have seen it with Denso, factory Ford all metal, factory Volvo, and so on. It is the equivalent of pouring water into "insert vehicle component here". And when it does happen, you know you were warned. I see it fairly often outside of automobiles, but fire engines with all metal radiators, and even hydraulic coolers for the foam systems on the fire engines.

 

[u2slow]

Heat exchangers are always at risk of cross-contamination from failure.

Systems that are poorly matched and/or have insufficient circulation can still overheat. Cough... Chrysler Powertech engines... Cough.

 

[CarterKraft]

To purposefully put a component at the risk of intermix is stupid. Especially when it is less work to just simply avoid the issue. It does not have to be a cheap radiator. I have seen it with Denso, factory Ford all metal, factory Volvo, and so on. It is the equivalent of pouring water into "insert vehicle component here". And when it does happen, you know you were warned. I see it fairly often outside of automobiles, but fire engines with all metal radiators, and even hydraulic coolers for the foam systems on the fire engines.

But really there is no other solution right? None of us want our fluids mixed... BUT we don't have the room for the amount of coolers required without it?

 

[NOODLES]

But really there is no other solution right? None of us want our fluids mixed... BUT we don't have the room for the amount of coolers required without it?

Oh. I apologize. I did not realize this thread was about something you are building.

 

[CarterKraft]

Oh. I apologize. I did not realize this thread was about something you are building.

IT's not my project, its Austins, same story though.
If frontal area is limited, stacking multiple air-fluid coolers is wildly prohibitive and likely less efficient than fluid-fluid.

Cooler leaks are rare on the shit I work on. It happens for sure but its rare.
Look at the front of a D8 Dozer, the radiator area is not that large, nothing like a off-road mining truck.
Even still with that giant radiator in the mining truck it uses fluid-fluid coolers for all the heat generating fluids.

When you actually look at the selection of fluid-fluid coolers available in the OEM there are a TON of options out there that the offroad community ignores.

This is the transmission cooler for a 2022 F-Superduty with 6.7 diesel and 10 speed trans. It's rate for a lot of towing weight, and a lot of HP and Torque.
The trans cooler is 13" long, 2 1.2" deep and 3" wide. The trans cooler lines are very short and a electronic valve is installed to bypass the coolant around the cooler to regulate temps.
I can find the older version (6 speed) for around $90 on the web and its more universal, cut off the fittings and weld on AN adapters.

Like I said I have no math to back this stuff up I'm just coping what has been engineered already.