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Project: I have no idea what I'm doing (Moved from p4x4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by POR
I don't understand the i can't get leafs to work so lets go to links math lol..
If I'm going to have to start moving leaf hangers and brackets around to locate my axle where I want it, it makes sense to link instead.

I'm already cutting off, measuring, and putting new brackets in, might as well put in something that doesn't get axle wrap and is my eventual goal anyway
 
I haven't had a lot of time to work on this thing lately. Next step is welding the axle tubes to the center section on my 14 bolt and then welding the truss on.

I was putting it off because welding to the cast center was scary and I didn't have any ni99 rods. Picking some rods up this weekend and decided I'm just gonna send it.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YJUnlimited
I have read on the webs that some 14BFF retubers on the net don’t weld the tubes to the center section due to the HAZ it creates in a critical spot. Just the rosette welds. Definitely makes since and I have seen pics of axle tubes breaking there. If the truss ties into the pinion support doesn’t seem like much advantage to me to weld the tubes. Just a thought.
Oh man. I'm pretty much looking for any excuse not to weld this. You're not helping
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Truss does tie into pinion.... hmmmmmmm... I could get a lot more done this weekend if I wasn't waiting for an axle to heat and cool....
 
After much pondering, I decided that the pinion brace should be enough to stop the center from spinning. If I snap 3 5/8 grade 8 bolts, then I'll revisit the issue.

Got the truss welded on
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Then I went to position the axle under the jeep. It turned into more of a shitshow than it needed to be because I lacked vision when I pulled the jeep out and set it on some jack stands. I don't have any wheel dollies, so... I'll let the picture speak for itself. I can't tell if I'm stupid or clever.
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After a bit of jimmy jacking around, I got everything where it needed to be. Axle is now lined up where I want it, jeep is jacked up to where I want ride height to be. It's all(mostly) center.
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I was gunning for 7 inches of up travel, but was a little worried about how tall the truss and upper link bracket was. It'll barely fit. We'll see how that goes.
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Then I started cleaning up the spots on the frame where the brackets go. First thing that had to go were the old leaf hangers.
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Upon closer inspection, it appears I'm not the only hack who has worked on this thing
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More lines on the To-Do List.
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Next up is clean up the rest of the frame and tack up my link brackets where they need to go. I'm a government employee and it's Martin Luther King Jr. day, so I have a dream of getting everything under there today. Fingers crossed.
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Hackery cleaned up. Also got all my frame brackets tacked in place, but by the time I remembered to take a picture it was dark and cold, so instead, I compromised and stayed inside and drank beer.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by YJUnlimited
Does your crossmember limit uptravel? Mine did so I cut it out and used a piece of 1-1/2” tube.
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There's a chance I'll have to do that. Just eyeballing it, I should just barely clear, but we'll see once the links are on and I start cycling things.
 
Not much progress lately. Got sick for a week, went to KOH for few days, back at work now... but in the meantime, some 14" coilovers from Accutune showed up.

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Props to Ryan over there. He makes it really easy to figure out spring rate and valving and definitely knows what he's talking about.
 
Got lower link mounts cut and tacket on my axle. Don't make fun of where I tacked it, I was too lazy to wire all the paint off, so I had limited places that were already bare metal to choose from:
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After that, I decided I should mockup my links first. I'm not sure if I have stated this before, but uh, I have no idea what I'm doing, so I figured it's better if I do a little recon with PVC before cutting up my steel tubing. I affixed my heims with the finest painters tape I could find and checked to make sure I actually knew how to use a measuring tape.

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Everything lined up and the axle ended up exactly where I wanted with no drama.

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After that I cut my actual metal links to the same length and was getting ready to prep them for welding when the power went out. It has been windy here and I live in a town with super old power infrastructure, so this happens occasionally. After the third time in an hour, I got pissed and went inside for beer instead.

I have a buddy who has offered to tig the bungs into my links. I'm considering taking him up on that since I've never done this before and his work looks super pretty.
 
Got some help tig welding bungs on my links from a buddy. He's currently going to school to be a pipeliner, so when I called him on the phone to ask him how he wanted the tubes prepped, I had no idea what he was talking about when he said he wanted a "penny landing with a 45 bevel".

I sent him this back and he told me it was close enough
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:
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He dropped by and picked up my upper links to bust out last night. Did 3 passes, the last one had a weave on top. He was stoked for the practice and I was stoked because my attempt would have been ugly as sin:

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He's dropping by to pick up my lowers tonight and drop off the uppers. I'm the hold up in the production line because it takes me forever to bevel .25 wall tubing with a grinder.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy
Tell your buddy he better start practicing with a dime landing and walking the cup on the root and everything. Also, take that double filler rod technique and forget he ever knew it.
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Project is moving along nicely.
Will do! Thanks for the advice.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwood
an asian style rug from the 90s
I asked him about the rug one time. He calls it "The Magic Carpet". That's all I know.
 
The gong show continues.

Tig on the arms was a bit too spicy, so threads farther in the bung got warped. Local machine shop had right-hand tap to clean up one side but had to order left-hand tap for the other. Should be here next Tuesday. The next paragraph is going to be the Pirate4x4 version of a monkey fucking a football. If you want to see actual progress, skip that one. If you want to see what happens when stupidity gets multiplied by more stupidity then read on.

Warped threads was not the only exciting thing to happen to my new links. The buddy who welded them in also made the mistake of threading one of my left-hand threaded heims into a still-hot bung and by the time it got me, it was seized pretty far in there. Whatever, I pull out the pipe wrench and a cresent wrench and will have this thing out in... hnggggh.. hngeeergh... in.. hngggugh.. fawk, that's really in there.
Fine, lets add some leverage:
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This is going grea... uh oh.
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Ok, fine.. Lets throw some penetrating oil in there, come back in an hour and... no? Sonofa... So one thing lead to another and I ended up here(see if you can find all the methods of fuckery I employed in one pic, it's like where's waldo only not OSHA approved):
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That still didn't work and the heim isn't budging. Last ditch effort was to flip it upside down, dump a ton of penetrating oil down the tube and let it sit that way for a day. We'll see what happens tonight.

Back on track, I did end up with an upper and a lower link that I could adjust, so I figured I'd mock them up, get my axle where I wanted it and start taking some measurements for my shock tower. I started by seeing where full bump would be if I didn't cut a hole in the tub to clear my truss:
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Not great, not terrible.

After that I brought it up to where ride height would be based on that:
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Rear is definitely sitting higher than I wanted.

To continue the exercise, I then jacked it up to full droop:
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All in all everything is about 2" higher than I would like. I sent some pics to my cousin who had the best advice ever: "Just cut it, that thing sitting stinkbug is always going to bother you." I'm going to wait until I can get all my links chased next Tuesday, properly line up the axle and then cut the tub to clear my upper link mounts. Bonus for you guys, is down the road you get to have another gong show post where I attempt to make sheet metal do what I want it to do.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy
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That sucks. Pouring the coals to melt those dual filler rods started the gong show, all that extra filler cooling is what finished the deal. Metal moves more when it cools than it does when it heats up.
Yep. It was one of those friend things, where I wanted to make sure they came out ok but didn't want to tell the guy what to do since he was helping me out. I think both of us were learning. If I was smart, I would have sent him Ruffstuff's little warning at the bottom of their product:
Quote:
*Tips to help prevent any seized or warped threads:
Correctly adjust welder settings and start your puddle on the tube. (Too much heat will warp the threads) Do not weld the tube adapter with the rod end threaded inside. (The two pieces cool at different rates and will lock them together) Wait until everything has completely cooled before threading your rod ends into the adapters
Live and learn... I'm not sure my attempt with a mig would have been much better(though I definitely would have waited for everything to cool before attempting to put the heims back in).

Upside is my local machine shop chased the right-hand threads in 10 minutes and didn't charge me. I'm on the hook for the cost of the left-hand tap, so looking at about a $160 mistake. I figured that's not too bad considering I came into this with zero fab skills or knowledge.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy
You have a good attitude towards the little setbacks. They're not worth getting worked up over, that's for sure. I believe the saying is "shit happens".
It's all good as long as my wife doesn't find out
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwood
Before you hack a hole then do "bodywork".... How much more bump travel do you get before the links make friends with the frame?
I am not a mathematician and that answer would definitely require math.

Using my eyeballs though, I'll bet I can get 2 more inches.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattafact
That's very patriarchal of you.
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Jeep is looking great. Keep up the good work.
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*matriarchal

I'm trying to keep the minister of finance happy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwood
Asian feller method: measure overall link length, measure rod end center to closest spot on frame, measure distance between link and frame at this spot. Overall length divided by kissing point length, plus 1 multiplied by distance between frame and link at kissing point = how much bump you have available. Subtract half an inch for safety since bent shit sucks.
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Got my links all chased... but that's not the most exciting part of this update, although it is only tech. There is also mystery and intrigue!

So originally I went down to my closest(not best, this is important) local machine shop and asked them to chase out both the right and left-hand threads in the bungs on my links. They only had the right hand tap at the time, so the chase those out for free while I'm standing there and the owner then asks me if I want him to order me a left-hand tap. So far financially, I'm up, so I say hell yes. Blah blah blah, one thing leads to another, right-hand threads were good, I bring links back later and they do my left-hand threads with my new tap while I'm not there. This story is not going where you think it is: they did a great job. Left-hand heims spin freely in my links, life is good. I pay the man some cash and load my links up in my super extreme heavy-duty Jetta wagon on my lunch break yesterday.

This is where it gets weird. I head back to work, park the car and spend another four hours at work. Leaving work, I hop in my car and get hit with what I can only describe as the smell of diesel exhaust on a cold day. My super extreme heavy-duty Jetta wagon is a gasser. I roll down the front windows and drive 10 minutes to my house. I feel a little light-headed, but whatever. Unloading the links, I take a whiff of one of the newly chased ends (don't say bunghole, don't say bunghole...) and yep! That's definitely where the smell is coming from. Not only that, but now I'm on a galactic voyage full of wonder and zero gravity while I'm walking to my garage. Whatever that is, one little whiff almost put me on my ass.

I drove the car to work this morning with the windows down and still felt like I was floating walking from the parking lot in to work.

What the hell did these guys put on there that they didn't do last time?
 
Got my links set where I wanted them, even with one of my heims frozen in place- just worked around it. I cycled everything to make sure it was all good. I don't have the 40s on it(haven't decided which beadlocks I want), but it looks like they'll just barely clear.

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Measured to see if I could get full bump where I want it and the lowers will be close to the frame, but won't hit. Looks like I'm cutting a hole in the floor to get that extra 2" of up travel.

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Next up is cutting that hole and coilover mounts. Excited to get it sitting on its own weight again. I feel like things will move much faster when I don't have to learn about whatever it is I'm working on while I'm working on it.
 
So on day 1 of coronatpformybungholewuhanwowiequarentine2020, after making my way to the supermarket to get important supplies such as beer, whiskey, and corned beef for st. patties day, the wife gave me the rest of the day to work on my pile.

I had some ruffstuff shock towers waiting to get welded up, so I fired up the mig, gathered up what little skill I had, and got to work.

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Sick, I'll just go stick these on top of my frame... rails... mmmmph! Ok, so shock towers are taller than the amount of room I had from frame to tub. I swear I measured, but whatever. Out comes the cutoff wheel!

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Much better. Lets get those tacked in place and hang some shocks off of them and check clearances!

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Cool, cool...

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Uh oh.

I need to move this bad boy inboard or it's definitely going to hit the caliper. I need to also move it back a little bit or the spring is going to hit the back of the truss as well. I'm not a fan of frenching the shock towers into the frame( I wanted to leave it uncut in case I decided to go with trailing arms one day.), but I think that's what I'll have to do. Going to need longer towers. Back to the drawing board. Ordered some super tall 18" Artec towers that I can french in. Hopefully, UPS doesn't halt operations or drop dead of a virus before they show up.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slobrorunner
What is happening as far as a cage goes above where the shock will mount? Maybe you can build a shock mount into the cage vs get a big chungus tower in there?
It could happen, but it would be a bit too far forward compared to where I wanted to land my c-pillar. Had also planned to mount my cage to the frame using poly bushings and something tells me sending all the rear suspension hits through that would be a bad decision.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the freeak
CLUTCH! FUCK YEAH.
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OP- Why not move the shock to the front of the axle, and build a flat plate on the top of the LCA bracket; then land the shock on the LCA bracket?

This is a front example, but here...
I like that idea. Probably still going to french into the frame to make sure I have tire clearance at full stuff.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwood
Can you put shorter tabs on that tower and surrender (french) it in below that?
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If my new towers don't show up due to coronavirus, that might be my new quarantine project... That is if I ever get told to go home.
 
As long as UPS is still considered an "essential service" in my area, it looks like I'll have something to work on while I "shelter in place"
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Well, I got back at it this weekend. So in classic I Have No Idea What I'm Doing fashion, I ordered some shock towers for my coilovers that I thought would work, realized they stuck out too far. Stubbornly decided I wasn't going to cut the frame... and then ordered some shock towers to cut the frame up and french in.

I left a note to remind past self that present self disapproves of his ideas:
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First thing's first. Aparently a Beer Santa exists during California Shelter In Place Protocol and this showed up on my porch:
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Now that we're good a lubricated like a well-oiled machine, the new towers came in and I did some welding to get them ready. Note to anyone still following this- I really shouldn't be allowed to do any welding that isn't a flat t-joint, but it's Corona 2020, so the talent pool was a little limited. Once everything had cooled, I now had to figure out how to actually cut the frame to french these puppies in. They were kinda heavy to just hold up there and trace an outline, so I had to get creative. Searching around my garage, I found a shitty wooden dowel(what could possibly go wrong?):
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I went hunting for my paint pen, and luckily for me, it took a while to find it, otherwise, this would have been on my head:
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Fine. You want to play rough Mr. Shock Tower? I've had beer and I own a welder:
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What now bitch?

Unfortunately, the hanging angle of the tower was not desirable, so I had to modify it. Much better:
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Some of you may be thinking that it's sitting pretty high up there for 14" coilovers. You would be correct. I clamped that puppy in place and "adjusted" the height using my favorite hammer:
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A little tracing and a little cutoff wheel action later and...
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(right where my frame extensions fish plated to the old frame... not sure how that's going to go. Upside- I got to check out the penetration of the welds on the other side. Not bad.)
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03-30-2020, 11:34 AM
#162 (permalink)
Harry Johnson
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 28880
Location: Spreckels, Ca
Posts: 259
After that, I took the shock tower and jammed that puppy back into the hole. Little banging with my favorite tool and then some clamps and viola!
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Tacked her in and hung the shock:
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After that, I set it to the desired full droop distance, bolted the axle side shock tabs to the coilover and tacked it on:
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Finished shot of driver's side at full droop:
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Clearance is much better frenched in:
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Unfortunately, that's all I got to do this weekend. Spent the rest of the weekend getting in some outdoor time with the kiddo.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the freeak
uh, you left a little frame rail on the inside... might as well cut that off and back half it.
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The only thing stopping me is that I want to run my genright tank back there, so I would just end up making my back half an exact replica of the stock rails.

I was complaining to my buddy with a JK about having to hack up the frame. He was like "Bitch please" and sent me this:

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So the state of California celebrates Cesar Chavez day, so being a state worker, I had yesterday off. I took the chance to get the other side done.

After a short side trip into trying to figure out how to make sure both towers were going to be the same height and angle even though I don't trust that I made the back of my frame straight or that my driveway is level, I got it worked out by just measuring the angle off of the non-molested part of the frame by my upper link mount and then aligning the shocks to that. I was also worried that I was going to get the height wrong, so for that, I measured the distance from axle to base of the shock tower on both sides at full droop.

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After that everything went fast. One thing led to another and it was sitting on its own weight again!
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It's sitting rear high, since obviously spring rates were calculated with gas tank, cage, seats, bumper, spare tire, cooler, ect. installed.
3N0N0gE


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Next up I pulled the springs so I could do a clearance at full bump and flexed. Full bump looked good after I added some clearance for my axle side upper link bracket:
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Next up was a flexing it out. I didn't get to full stuff before I realized there was a problem. Can you guys see what it is?
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wuh oh:
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Yep, when I tacked on my lower shock brackets, I thought I was being smart by adding a little extra space between those brackets and my calipers. Turns out I moved my shock tabs too far inboard on the axle and the droop side shock binds at not even full flex.
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My hope is to move those brackets more outboard on the axle and re-test.

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The other option would be to flip the bracket so the shock pivots side-to-side rather than front to back, but I have a little bit of rotation front to back as well, so I don't want to have the same issue on a different axis:
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Supposed to rain this weekend, but now that she's rolling around under her own weight, maybe I can clean out that side of the garage and get that done inside for once.
 
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