Police spinoff, unconventional idea

[WaterH]

I was reading the policing thread and came up with interesting idea. Not sure if it would work. What say Irate?

They could create a federal police force that only has jurisdiction over police. It can't harass civilians in anyway. They could run all kinds of "sting" operations. They could investigate complaints about police. But they would not be "brothers in blue". It's kind of like internal affairs, but exturnal. It would give police the same fear that civilians have.

Could this work?

 

[RusM]

isn't that the FBI?

 

[Mr Stubs]

So create more government entity’s?

 

[MuntCuffin]

Or make local internal affairs offices separate and report directly to the governor or mayor 🤷‍♂️

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I was thinking something along the lines of:

Police would be used for things like murder, theft, DV, accident ect investigations and would no longer be just out on patrol. Stuff they used to "patrol" for like speeding ect would be left up to the people to call in if they deemed it necessary. If they implemented something like this just imagine how many more REAL crimes would be solved instead of them just out revenue generating...... Would never happen though. State and local governments would loose to much revenue by only concentrating on real crimes. :rolleyes:

 

[Ransil]

make criminal activity illegal

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-ju...-george-floyd/


When Trump finally fired Sessions in November 2018, the outgoing attorney general had one final trick up his sleeve. Before leaving the Justice Department, he quietly signed a memorandum in one of his last official acts all but ending the department’s oversight of police departments. The memorandum made the Trump administration’s de facto policy against new consent decrees official, while extending the same hands-off policy to other areas of federal enforcement involving state responsibilities in areas like pollution and voting rights. Experts predicted that even departments already under current federal oversight might once again act with impunity because the memo undercut the authority of civil rights attorneys to enforce them. Sessions’ memo set policy, but it also sent a message to police departments that they would no longer have to answer to the federal government—not even when when officer shootings draw national attention.

 

[Eric]

The solution to too much policing is not creating more police!

The answer is to refocus police on investigating real crime such as murder, assault, rape, robbery, burglary, and arson. Equipping cops with computers and plate readers then sending them out to harass motorists and pedestrians is fawking ridiculous.

 

[rockota]

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-ju...-george-floyd/


When Trump finally fired Sessions in November 2018, the outgoing attorney general had one final trick up his sleeve. Before leaving the Justice Department, he quietly signed a memorandum in one of his last official acts all but ending the department’s oversight of police departments. The memorandum made the Trump administration’s de facto policy against new consent decrees official, while extending the same hands-off policy to other areas of federal enforcement involving state responsibilities in areas like pollution and voting rights. Experts predicted that even departments already under current federal oversight might once again act with impunity because the memo undercut the authority of civil rights attorneys to enforce them. Sessions’ memo set policy, but it also sent a message to police departments that they would no longer have to answer to the federal government—not even when when officer shootings draw national attention.

why would a state police department have to answer to the Fed government anyway? IIRC, Fed control of state police is not an enumerated power.

 

[Stuck]

I was reading the policing thread and came up with interesting idea. Not sure if it would work. What say Irate?

They could create a federal police force that only has jurisdiction over police. It can't harass civilians in anyway. They could run all kinds of "sting" operations. They could investigate complaints about police. But they would not be "brothers in blue". It's kind of like internal affairs, but exturnal. It would give police the same fear that civilians have.

Could this work?

You mean like the DOJ, FBI, OIG, Internal Affairs? Its actually a good idea and they actually do exist its just gotten twisted in some cases and just unknown in others.

A streamlined state run internal affairs for all local PD and a federal agency for state depts would make things more accountable. One of the biggest hurdles is the union issue. Unions wont go along with it an politicians are scared to take them on.

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

any police involved excessive use of force complaints. any police involved deaths. should be regulated at the fed level. they've clearly shown they can't police themselves, hence the current situation we're in.

 

[det107]

...they can't police themselves, hence the current situation we're in.

I thought the 4 cops got fired pronto for causing Mr. Floyd's death

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

I thought the 4 cops got fired pronto for causing Mr. Floyd's death

justice isn't firing them. also they got fired so quickly its the game. the union will argue the dept didn't follow union contract for review etc etc and in a few months they would get their jobs back with back pay. its a story as old as police unions.

 

[WaterH]

isn't that the FBI?

Does the FBI have authority over civilians? Read it again. I want this entity to only have authority over cops. (Including the FBI)

 

[crisbee1]

 

[Thefishguy77]

Best Idea is to hold the police to the exact same standards as everyone else. Commit crimes, found guilty, go to real prison not protected prison.

watch how fast they stop being shitbirds and protecting each other. Officer smokey plants drugs and people know you saw it your guilty as well if you dont at least report it, type deal.

 

[junkytj]

Sheriffs are elected positions in most states. They should be the ones policing the police and not involved in the drug war. I think making an officer personally liable for violating a citizen's rights instead of the tax payers paying off their bullshit lawsuits is a quick way to get their attention. I also think instead of traffic fines going to the court or police, they should go to citizen directed projects outside of law enforcement, force them to get rid of military paraphernalia, and finally no more property seizure by law enforcement. That puts the power back in the voting public's hands. If you want more police, vote for the funding to do it. If your local force is getting out of line, no more money until you square your shit up. Dry up the self funding options, make them a policing unit again, and make them personally responsible for their own actions. They become a useful tool of a lawful society again instead of tools trying to conquer society.

 

[WaterH]

You mean like the DOJ, FBI, OIG, Internal Affairs? Its actually a good idea and they actually do exist its just gotten twisted in some cases and just unknown in others.

A streamlined state run internal affairs for all local PD and a federal agency for state depts would make things more accountable. One of the biggest hurdles is the union issue. Unions wont go along with it an politicians are scared to take them on.

Again, do those organizations have arrest authority over civilians? I'm talking about an organization that has only one purpose, To investigate and discipline police.

Let's face it, if you give someone power over someone else, they have a tendency to abuse it. The EPA abuses their authority over people they can. The BLM abuses their authority over the people they can. The Zoning dept abuses the people they can. The liquor control abuses the people they can. The FAA abuses the people they can. Does the FAA abuse you? If your not a pilot, probably not because they don't have any authority.

The cops abuse their authority over people they can. (Which is most everybody) The FBI could (and does sometimes) abuse their authority over cops. But this doesn't happen often because they kind of on the same team asserting their authority over everybody else.

But if you have an organization that can only touch law inforcement, guess what? Cops are going to fear and hate them. The only way that they would "get ahead" or "make a name for themselves" is to harass cops. The only way they can "flex their power muscles" is harass cops.

Make sense now?

 

[junkytj]

Yeah it makes sense, but it needs local control. Let's say Joe Biden wins the presidency and sends out an order to collect all guns. Your local POPO says nope, not happening. Your liberal governor or liberal bureaucrat in charge of the popo police sends in the police swat and takes out local control. You see how that could go bad right? Keep authority local as much as possible. People act a lot less stupid when the people who hire them know where they live.

 

[WaterH]

Yeah it makes sense, but it needs local control. Let's say Joe Biden wins the presidency and sends out an order to collect all guns. Your local POPO says nope, not happening. Your liberal governor or liberal bureaucrat in charge of the popo police sends in the police swat and takes out local control. You see how that could go bad right? Keep authority local as much as possible. People act a lot less stupid when the people who hire them know where they live.

Your scenario can allready happen. This organization doesn't make it more likely.

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

Yeah it makes sense, but it needs local control. Let's say Joe Biden wins the presidency and sends out an order to collect all guns. Your local POPO says nope, not happening. Your liberal governor or liberal bureaucrat in charge of the popo police sends in the police swat and takes out local control. You see how that could go bad right? Keep authority local as much as possible. People act a lot less stupid when the people who hire them know where they live.

this is stupid. does it hurt being this stupid?

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

seeing this list:

1. ⁠⁠Establish an independent inspector body that investigates misconduct or criminal allegations and controls evidence like body camera video. This civilian body will be at the state level, have the ability to investigate and arrest other law enforcement officers (LEOs), and investigate law enforcement agencies.
2. ⁠⁠Create a requirement for states to establish board certification with minimum education and training requirements to provide licensing for police. In order to be a LEO, you must possess that license. The inspector body in #1 can revoke the license.
3. ⁠⁠Refocus police resources on training & de-escalation instead of purchasing military equipment and require encourage LEOs to be from the community they police.
4. ⁠⁠Adopt the “absolute necessity” doctrine for lethal force as implemented in other states. Use of force is automatically investigated by #1.
5. ⁠⁠Codify into law the requirement for police to have positive control over the evidence chain of custody. If the chain of custody is lost for evidence, the investigative body in #1 can hold the LEO/LE liable.

 

[2big bronco]

Not sure how true it is/was but when I was in Costa Rica it was explained to me that the only thing the police is really there for is Murder, rape/stagatory rape, and littering. Seemed to make sence

 

[junkytj]

this is stupid. does it hurt being this stupid?

Yep. Looks like it caused you some brain damage.

 

[Stuck]

Yeah it makes sense, but it needs local control. Let's say Joe Biden wins the presidency and sends out an order to collect all guns. Your local POPO says nope, not happening. Your liberal governor or liberal bureaucrat in charge of the popo police sends in the police swat and takes out local control. You see how that could go bad right? Keep authority local as much as possible. People act a lot less stupid when the people who hire them know where they live.

Were not talking about another law enforcement branch. This would be reorganizing the agencies and depts that are supposed to oversee police misconduct. Officers refusing illegal and unlawful orders isnt police misconduct. Abusing civil rights is.

 

[Byro]

The fire departments already have it figured out.

We’ll call you when we need you.

 

[WaterH]

seeing this list:

1. ⁠⁠Establish an independent inspector body that investigates misconduct or criminal allegations and controls evidence like body camera video. This civilian body will be at the state level, have the ability to investigate and arrest other law enforcement officers (LEOs), and investigate law enforcement agencies.
2. ⁠⁠Create a requirement for states to establish board certification with minimum education and training requirements to provide licensing for police. In order to be a LEO, you must possess that license. The inspector body in #1 can revoke the license.
3. ⁠⁠Refocus police resources on training & de-escalation instead of purchasing military equipment and require encourage LEOs to be from the community they police.
4. ⁠⁠Adopt the “absolute necessity” doctrine for lethal force as implemented in other states. Use of force is automatically investigated by #1.
5. ⁠⁠Codify into law the requirement for police to have positive control over the evidence chain of custody. If the chain of custody is lost for evidence, the investigative body in #1 can hold the LEO/LE liable.

1 and 2 make sense. I'm not sure about 3. We re not having a big problem with military equipment being used to violate rights. I've not seen bazukas or even machine guns used by cops. If you are talking about black guns, anybody can get them.

On 4, I'm not sure how that is worded. Does it require the bad guy to fire a shot before returning fire? Not sure how I feel about that.

What are you getting at in #5?

I think that a body camera requirement can solve a lot of these kinds of problems. I think cop cars could have an array of cameras also. Maybe every cop gun could have a camera on the barrel.

 

[WaterH]

Not sure how true it is/was but when I was in Costa Rica it was explained to me that the only thing the police is really there for is Murder, rape/stagatory rape, and littering. Seemed to make sence

So they don't help if your car is stolen? I'm not a big fan of traffic cops, but I don't want people driving 100mph through town. What about a bar fight? You might be the baddest MFer around, but if three guys gang up on you and put you in the hospital, you don't want cops involved?

 

[SanDiegoCJ]

So create more government entity’s?

Yup, another layer of .gov. :rolleyes:


Edit: IMO disbanding is also a stupid idea. That cutting off your nose to spite your face. Like it or not a police force is a necessity. I think the solution is much better training and vigorous weeding out of the "bad cops". The culture needs to change. The rank and file police need to embrace the idea that getting rid of the rotten apples improves their image and makes their job much easier.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

So they don't help if your car is stolen?

You can't be serious. Right????

My next door neighbor had his car trailer stolen 3 weeks ago. Neighbor used it all afternoon, dropped it off on his parking spot and 45min later some asshole comes along and decides he wants it more than the neighbor. The entire thing was caught on security camera. From the time the scumbag followed sombody through the gate to him leaving with the trailer is ALL on tape. They got his plate number, face and the entire act on film.

Neighbor calls the police to report it stolen and tells them it's all on tape. THE FUCKING POLICE DIDN'T SHOW UP FOR 2 WEEKS to take the report or look at the video. There claim was "short staffed due to the Corona pandemic" and this was as early as they could get someone here.

Well guess what..... Scumbag had already ditched the trailer and my neighbor had to buy a new one before the cops ever showed up. I'm sure if those cock suckers had shown up that day, watched the video and went and paid the scumbag a visit, my neighbor would have possibly gotten his trailer back. NOPE, they couldn't be bothered.....

As far as I'm concerned they are NOT here to help. They are revenue generators hired by towns/citys to do just that. Ain't no profits in finding a stolen trailer so they took their sweet time getting here. Fuck the police!

But god forbid you go 28mph in a 25mph zone.