What's new
By:
Filters

Pistol brace ruling - ATF at it again

RunningProblem said:
A buffer tube becomes a stock when you shoulder it. Same rule applied to pistol buffer tubes, except a rifle buffer tube can accept a stock which was always seen as a bad idea because law enforcement can say ‘it’s capable of accepting a stock so NFA and u registered. Go to jail.’
Click to expand...
how many rifle buffer tubes do you see on pistols?
I've never even seen a pic of one, plenty of carbine tubes though
 
RunningProblem said:
kf4zht I would expect any ‘entrapment’ argument to be thrown out because ‘we gave you 120 days to register it for free in accordance with the law.’

A buffer tube becomes a stock when you shoulder it. Same rule applied to pistol buffer tubes, except a rifle buffer tube can accept a stock which was always seen as a bad idea because law enforcement can say ‘it’s capable of accepting a stock so NFA and u registered. Go to jail.’
Click to expand...

It does not become a stock. It's a part of the gun vital to it's basic function.

A brace and a stock are not.

Now, glue an AR buffer tube to an AK pistol and it's now a stock. Why? Because it's not part of the function of the gun.
 
You guys are arguing semantics under the old rules.
There is no doubt that braces are in common use. 3 million is the absolute low end estimate I have seen.
The real number is somewhere between 10 and 40 million. If that doesn't constitute common use, nothing does.

The other consideration is the text history and tradition going back to the founding.
Considering they couldn't even make the bump stock ban stick the ATF is not going to win this one.
 
aron82 said:
Considering they couldn't even make the bump stock ban stick the ATF is not going to win this one.
Click to expand...
Ill say it again, the bump stock ban and this ruling are not the same. Pistol braces are not being regulated here, SBRs are. It may seem similar but its a different tactic entirely.
 
Toreadorranger said:
Ill say it again, the bump stock ban and this ruling are not the same. Pistol braces are not being regulated here, SBRs are. It may seem similar but its a different tactic entirely.
Click to expand...
However by saying that everyting with a brace is now an SBR it pushes them further into "Common Use", which they can't have regulations or a tax on
 
kf4zht said:
However by saying that everyting with a brace is now an SBR it pushes them further into "Common Use", which they can't have regulations or a tax on
Click to expand...
I agree, I think long term this could work in our favor and get SBRs removed from the NFA.
 
kf4zht said:
However by saying that everyting with a brace is now an SBR it pushes them further into "Common Use", which they can't have regulations or a tax on
Click to expand...
'Common use'? What about the gazillion objects that ATF claims turn firearms into machine guns? Does that make everything common use?
 
krttrkllr said:
I guess for me personally, if I'm going to federal fuck me in the ass prison. It won't be over some gay ass brace. I don't have the lifespan for that kind of prison time. It would be an all-in situation for me. And I sure don't want to drop the amount of coin required for attorney to keep me out.
Click to expand...
Yet your sending in a form with your signature that you already have an "SBR" in your possession without filing for the appropriate stamp and getting prior approval? And your saving yourself from prison exactly how?
 
Halffastford said:
Yet your sending in a form with your signature that you already have an "SBR" in your possession without filing for the appropriate stamp and getting prior approval? And your saving yourself from prison exactly how?
Click to expand...
If that is a concern for you, disassemble it and keep the brace in a different location until after approval.
 
krttrkllr said:
If that is a concern for you, disassemble it and keep the brace in a different location until after approval.
Click to expand...
The end result should all be the same, right? Braces will be trashed once form 1s go through since I've always been told braces are poor stocks anyway?

Serious question: where does it say you don't have to engrave after filing the Form 1 for a braced pistol?
 
Reddit chatter is someone got their brace/amnesty form 1 "Conditionally approved" and didn't have a stamp on the approval (Likely due to no tax paid?)
 
posford said:
Reddit chatter is someone got their brace/amnesty form 1 "Conditionally approved" and didn't have a stamp on the approval (Likely due to no tax paid?)
Click to expand...
Well, that's fine. It would mean you paid no tax but we're legal since the government waived it.

Same question about engraving
 
Texas97 said:
The end result should all be the same, right? Braces will be trashed once form 1s go through since I've always been told braces are poor stocks anyway?

Serious question: where does it say you don't have to engrave after filing the Form 1 for a braced pistol?
Click to expand...
READ THE FUCKING FAQ THE ATF PUBLISHED.

Specifically question 27.
LINK TO THE ATF FAQ ABOUT PISTOL BRACE AMNESTY

F463D205-3C73-4B13-B0DC-8FBB8D4B3942.png
 
Texas97 said:
No markings but has to be in a trust prior to rule. Interesting
Click to expand...
Yeah, but people had almost a month if they wanted to go the trust route to get the paper notarized.

I'm wondering if they start asking people to prove ownership. Nothing to say someone couldn't buy a new gun on the 115/120 days and register it
 
Halffastford said:
Is that the same FAQ that erroneously told people that you couldn't let someone shoot your suppressor even if you were right there? Just curious.
Click to expand...
No, same publisher but different FAQ

They rolled that shit back quick. I wonder what intern had a really awkward meeting after that write up went live
 
Texas97 said:
The end result should all be the same, right? Braces will be trashed once form 1s go through since I've always been told braces are poor stocks anyway?

Serious question: where does it say you don't have to engrave after filing the Form 1 for a braced pistol?
Click to expand...
Yes, I'll sell 3 right now. Want one?
Never seen where it's required.
 
I stopped at my local gun dealer and saw a couple AR pistols on the rack less braces. I inquired about how that’s all going. The dealer said that even the buffer tube had to be swapped out to a smooth body one that won’t except a brace.
 
Landslide said:
I stopped at my local gun dealer and saw a couple AR pistols on the rack less braces. I inquired about how that’s all going. The dealer said that even the buffer tube had to be swapped out to a smooth body one that won’t except a brace.
Click to expand...
But there are multiple models of brace that work on a bare tube, so that doesn't even make sense. Stupid ATF

It does go back to the OG ar pistol days when they said it had to be a carbine tube with no lock in points for an adjustable stock. Some guys ran smooth, some milled out the slot on a normal tube

It's all dumb, on an ar or many firearms your only 30 minutes and some hand tools away from becoming an SBR. And all this is left over from congress forgetting to change language when they changed their mind
 
Landslide said:
I stopped at my local gun dealer and saw a couple AR pistols on the rack less braces. I inquired about how that’s all going. The dealer said that even the buffer tube had to be swapped out to a smooth body one that won’t except a brace.
Click to expand...
LGS has braces in stock on the wall, I asked about them, was told there's nothing illegal about owning a brace, and advised people to wait it out a little and see where the lawsuit goes before making rash decisions. (OMG...LOGIC???)

Saw a company is selling something like "FUCK 4TF" kit, which is a stock, a 16" barrel, proper gas tube, and 15" HG, for like $120. Nervous? Swap your barrel out and move on. Since it started life as a pistol, it can always go back to being a pistol
 
kf4zht said:
It's all dumb, on an ar or many firearms your only 30 minutes and some hand tools away from becoming an SBR.
Click to expand...
or some string or a folded coat hanger away from an MG
or a pillow or cat away from a suppressor

every AR pistol has always been constructive intent, it's only two push pins...
 
krttrkllr said:
Yes, I'll sell 3 right now. Want one?
Never seen where it's required.
Click to expand...

engraving has always been required for anything Form 1. Always. and we've hashed this out several times before. i guess thats why ATF made an exception this time as they apparently are not actually giving stamps, just permission slips.
 
Texas97 said:
engraving has always been required for anything Form 1. Always. and we've hashed this out several times before. i guess thats why ATF made an exception this time as they apparently are not actually giving stamps, just permission slips.
Click to expand...
If you read the financial impact doc (I skimmed it) they had to break down the average cost to the peons who have to deal with this. Things like fingerprinting costs, cost to drive for the fingerprints, cost of passport photos, cost of internet usage, etc. I'm guessing that the cost of engraving (typ $35-50 and for many requires maling the firearm) put them over some type of threshold that was going to be harder to justify or require additional approval so they dropped it. And honestly, until it is sold the engraving is useless. Its no proof of a stamp, it does not create a new SN (excluding PMFs) and it won't aid in an investigation - once you search the SN you see it is or isn't a stamped SBR
 
Texas97 said:
engraving has always been required for anything Form 1. Always. and we've hashed this out several times before. i guess thats why ATF made an exception this time as they apparently are not actually giving stamps, just permission slips.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I knew that up until now it was required on form 1's. I did a bunch of reading on the brace issue. Just because I was feeling really ignorant on the subject. Figure I'll just register mine and put a stock on them. Which I'd rather have any way and sell the braces.
 
krttrkllr said:
Yeah, I knew that up until now it was required on form 1's. I did a bunch of reading on the brace issue. Just because I was feeling really ignorant on the subject. Figure I'll just register mine and put a stock on them. Which I'd rather have any way and sell the braces.
Click to expand...
bend me over harder, daddy?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh