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Parenting the manipulative teen in a split household

Dead Pool

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TL/DR: Daughter has manipulated situations between both households to the point that she has decided not to come to my house anymore, ex enabling the behavior, and I'm unwilling to bend my values to fit what she wants them to be.

Long story:
For the first time in my life, I have turned down time with my daughter. Her mom says she feels unsafe being here, presumably because I have rules, expectations, and lay down the law. How did we get here? Well, it's been a long road of manipulation on her part, pitting both households against each other and also interhousehold manipulation. Looking back, she's been doing it since she was little. It sucks. The new generation of kids, parented by the public school system are by and large, a bunch of entitled brats taught to focus on self care, finding their personal truths, and retreating to a safe space. I never thought it would happen to my own kid, yet here we are. Hard to instill the values I want to see when my house is just a 30% of the time pit stop now and then. She has found the weaker parent that will put up with her BS and is exploiting that to the detriment of myself. I won't give her the freedom she wants until she has earned it. I won't back off of my values to fit the world that we live in today. I won't endorse her behavior to go along to get along.

She wanted to discuss the issues she has with my wife separately, with only me. Things she has said to hurt my daughter's feelings, and things have said to do the same. I won't entertain it. She will not try to sow dissention throughout my household to play her games. She has had an open floor to discuss anything and everything for her whole life, but if she wants to act like she's an adult, then she needs to address both of us like one. I bet we have both hurt her feelings. It's hard thinking you know everything and having that world crash down because you find out you don't. Lack of humility, lack of human decency, overall being a bitch gets called out and fast. No doubt her feelings have been hurt but I haven't laid a hand on her or even raised my voice to her. Just addressed things as they came up, but she feels unsafe to be here. It's insane.

In the past year, she has lied, manipulated, hidden things, treats everybody like servants, snaps at everybody. She has had 3 boyfriends and her 16th birthday is in 2 weeks. Slept with 2 of them at her moms house, snuck around, got her cell phone taken away, bought a burner, got caught with that. She has run away from home once, snubs her two younger brothers, complains about everything, has zero humility, and is generally unhappy in life. She truly thinks that she is going to marry this boy she's "in love with". She thinks she has life all figured out, but can't even clean her room, cook a meal without considerable help, or do simple tasks without step by step directions.

Her mother refuses to burn her world down, thinking she can change the behavior from coddling her. My recommendation was to pull her from school and put her in a different one, take away her extra curricular activities, and put her on lockdown. Mom is unwilling to do any of that. We spent the last 6 months in a concerted effort to coparent together with my wife taking a lot of the lead on communication since my communication skills dealing with my ex suck. Ex has blown this 6 month effort apart in one night.

Some of that is typical teenage bs, but some is more. I think it's amplified by split households, she has choices that I never had growing up. So all you divorced guys with children, you ever go through this crap? How did it turn out in the end?
 
You’re going to have trouble laying down the law at 16, it should have been laid down long ago so she would make better choices now. You’ve got a young lady with daddy issues on your hands now.

All you can do is provide a safe space for her at your home when she is there. Lockdown isn’t going to work. Try to open up communication. Make sure she’s being safe with her activities. If she doesn’t have birth control, it may be a good time to get it. Be the type of man you would want her to be dating because you are the example. Spend quality time with her. Good luck from one father to another.
 
Yep, my oldest is 44 this year.

Her Mom and I divorced when she was 10 ... I still tell her it's amazing what a stupid, inflexible jerk I was from her ages 12 to 22, and how much I've improved since then.

Stick to your position, remind her that you're always there to talk even though you two may not agree on anything.

They'll be grown-ups waaaay longer than they're kids.

Hang in there, you're doing the right thing for you and for her in the long term.
 
The good news is some teens grow out of that when they enter the real world.
Bad news is that some don’t, and there’s not much you can do as the non-custodial parent- unless you can convince your ex to swap with you.

Are the boys yours? If so, do what you can to insulate them from her bs and keep giving them a stable second home.
 
Yes the boys are mine...came with my wife, had a deadbeat dad and I legally adopted them. So they're with us 100% of the time, homeschooled. I'm learning from mistakes. And I am leaving the door open and hoping she grows out of this stage quickly.
 
Have you tried getting her into therapy? Girls need someone to talk through their issues with, thats not a parent.
She's been in counseling for 2 years now, but has not be opening up much there either. Twice a month, every month, ever since she said she was depressed and the pill pusher, uh I mean doctor tried to prescribe her a Zoloft script and I suggested counseling.
 
Is her mother well intentioned with decent morals and just lazy on the discipline, or a bad influence shitty person?
Mother is a liberal, ex teacher, now she doesn't work, I guess trophy wife kinda thing? In the past 4 years, mother has had my daughter vaxxed and boosted with covid crap, hpv shot, everything else under the sun, 4 vacations to europe, etc. Basically trailer trash living the upscale life in a liberal environment. On a basic scale, she's not overly bright and wants to be my daughters friend more than actually parent.
 
Also some candid talk with the daughter, it probably won't be a back and forth, you'll be making statements that she'll act like she's annoyed by.

I love you
I'm worried about you
I want you to feel comfortable here (your home)

You're becoming an adult and making adult decisions, I worry that you don't understand the results of the decisions you make, and how they are going affect you for the rest of your life

When you are nasty to people, that doesn't reflect on who I am, that reflects on who you are

This is my first rodeo and I'm making it up as I go along

Ask her if she's ready to support herself in the real world, to stay up all night with a crying baby, where she's going to get a place to live. Ask her to make a budget for a 17yo mom, and what she expects to pay for rent.

Then go drive past $600mo rentals :laughing:
 
She's been in counseling for 2 years now, but has not be opening up much there either. Twice a month, every month, ever since she said she was depressed and the pill pusher, uh I mean doctor tried to prescribe her a Zoloft script and I suggested counseling.
Time to try a different counselor?

Rereading the OP, she wanted to talk to you one on one about how she's feeling and you said no? I might rethink that, let her vent but clearly stand up for your wife

Also:
Mother is a liberal, ex teacher, now she doesn't work, I guess trophy wife kinda thing? In the past 4 years, mother has had my daughter vaxxed and boosted with covid crap, hpv shot, everything else under the sun, 4 vacations to europe, etc. Basically trailer trash living the upscale life in a liberal environment. On a basic scale, she's not overly bright and wants to be my daughters friend more than actually parent.
Yer fucked. Good luck deprogramming what shes been taught
 
Mother is a liberal, ex teacher, now she doesn't work, I guess trophy wife kinda thing? In the past 4 years, mother has had my daughter vaxxed and boosted with covid crap, hpv shot, everything else under the sun, 4 vacations to europe, etc. Basically trailer trash living the upscale life in a liberal environment. On a basic scale, she's not overly bright and wants to be my daughters friend more than actually parent.
Smart enough to take vacations to europe without a job. Best of luck to ya.
 
I get supporting your wife, but if the girl wants to speak to just you, you may want to engage that. You are the adult and can prevent it from turning into a feeding frenzy on your wife.

Just get her talking. Keep communicating. She will mature and she isn't done yet.
 
Mother is a liberal, ex teacher, now she doesn't work, I guess trophy wife kinda thing? In the past 4 years, mother has had my daughter vaxxed and boosted with covid crap, hpv shot, everything else under the sun, 4 vacations to europe, etc. Basically trailer trash living the upscale life in a liberal environment. On a basic scale, she's not overly bright and wants to be my daughters friend more than actually parent.

Damn, you've got an uphill battle there.
Might as well get her on birth control

And have some candid conversations about adult stuff. "Guys lie to get what they want, and once they've got it, they'll sure you they don't really care about you"

If she doesn't want to come to your house, or you don't want her at yours, pick her up for dinner on Tuesdays, and drop her back off after dinner.

When I'd get stuck where I couldn't talk to my moody teen daughter, we'd go for driving lessons, it's a life skill they need, and it allows for some basic back and forth communication, and some correction and praise
"Yeah, you came in a little hot and crossed the double line, but on the next turn, coast in, keep it centered in your lane, you got this" "nice job! "

Maybe you get to where she spends Saturday days with you guys and you take her back before things turn sour

This one is going to be a baby step kinda thing
 
Short answer, yes. As a step father. I can only imagine what it’s like with your own.

Recently moved them both out.

Are there step parents on either side?

Best of luck!
 
Appreciate it guys, I may open up the floor to a one on one discussion. Not today. Maybe eventually. And I'm fully aware that this whole thing ultimately stems to poor choices I made long ago. I've been preparing my heart for this for a while now. It's something I have seen coming, although I didn't think it would be this soon. It's tough to look back on it. I basically raised her solo for a long time while her mom was busy out partying and now she picks mom when she's in a fairytale life situation. Story of the world, I suppose.
 
She is on birth control, went on it in May.

Step parents on both sides. Both step parents seem to see what's happening. My wife, and my ex's husband. My ex and her husband are not on the same page about this situation, or weren't back in May when it started really blowing up.

And I agree. Baby steps.
 
Imo you owe it to your daughter to have a one on one conversation, and you owe it to your wife to be transparent with her about it, before, and most likely after, unless there's something unforseen in there you need to process. I'd also not let your daughter use that as a platform to drive a wedge between you and the wife, "that's my wife, we're a team, we don't keep secrets"




And I think it's time to have real adult conversations with your daughter

"It's not my job to make you happy, it's my job to make you a functional adult"

Call her out shitty behavior as needed, maybe not bring up 5 years worth of stuff in a week, but stay to turn the ship around.

"Yeah, I'm not sure if that's true"

"That was a shitty thing to say, and I don't feel I deserve that"

"I hope you make better choices next time"

Stuff like that
 
That’s a tough situation to be in. Make sure to always take the high road and never speak negatively to her about mom. Ease up on your demands and judgements a little and make sure that she sees you as a safe space she can go to. This phase will pass and you want to make sure you have a relationship with her on the other side.

If all that fails, she’ll probably end up a millionaire. :flipoff2:
IMG_7824.jpeg
 
How long have you and your current wife been together? The fact that you have your wife do the communicating with your ex on top of the fact that your daughter actively wants to talk to you one on one but you won’t do it without your wife there are pretty shitty for your daughter. Like, “I might have a conversation with her one on one someday but I’m not there yet”, honestly fuck off dude, it’s your job and your daughter doesn’t owe your current wife an open door to the things she wants to share with her father. Your daughter sounds like a messed up kid and maybe she’ll always be a selfish wreck, and maybe she just wants to try to manipulate you, but you’re boasting about not doing the simplest things to meet her where she is able to talk father to daughter. Why should she give you the time of day when you won’t even have a conversation with her?
 
How long have you and your current wife been together? The fact that you have your wife do the communicating with your ex on top of the fact that your daughter actively wants to talk to you one on one but you won’t do it without your wife there are pretty shitty for your daughter. Like, “I might have a conversation with her one on one someday but I’m not there yet”, honestly fuck off dude, it’s your job and your daughter doesn’t owe your current wife an open door to the things she wants to share with her father. Your daughter sounds like a messed up kid and maybe she’ll always be a selfish wreck, and maybe she just wants to try to manipulate you, but you’re boasting about not doing the simplest things to meet her where she is able to talk father to daughter. Why should she give you the time of day when you won’t even have a conversation with her?
I get what you're saying. I've let my wife run point on conversations with my ex for the simple fact that my diplomacy is something along the lines of "listen up, you bitch, here's what needs to happen". We always discuss it beforehand and after. My kid? I have lots of conversation with her, it's an open door policy between me and her, always has been. She's free to talk to me at any time. What I'm not entertaining is her trashing my wife to me and trying to drive a wedge between us. Simple truth is this, my daughter will be out of the house in 2 years and will likely take off like her tail is on fire. And I will still be here, trying to do life with the wife, raising 2 boys and that's not something I'm willing to neglect to appease my daughter. I likely will open up a conversation with her, but it's not going to be today.

Oh to answer your first question, 4 years married, 5 together.
 
This may or may not be the popular opinion, but here goes.

I've had a good amount of training on handling rebellious and trauma filled kids due to being a foster parent. I feel most of what i've been taught is science based and not hopes and dreams.

From reading your OP, its appears that you're set in your ways whether they're correct or not. This doesn't mean you need to give up your beliefs or morals, but you need to be open to self change. You talk about self-care and finding personal truths as bullshit. It only appears as bullshit because of the way things were for years and years. You can have productive members of society that are also concerned about self care. For example, we as adults should think about work/life balance and not just putting in mega hours to appease the boss or feel like we're doing the most.

Some people do have a chemicals imbalance in their brains and prescriptions can help this. Its like a swimming pool thats going green. no amount of talking to the pool will change anything, its chemicals that'll help. Doesn't mean the person is weak, you just can't fix everything with counseling. For as long as i can remember, i've had a short fuse. I've tried counseling and the like for decades with only minor improvements. I know i wanted to improve, but it just seemed like i could only do so much. It started to affect my younger kids and i knew i had to do something. I took the lowest dosage of zoloft and it changed my behaviors in a good way. I'm not a zombie. i don't just give into shit. It took the edge off.

You also mention that you have had an open floor for your daughter to talk. Different perspective...... YOU may think its an open floor, but the other party may not see it the same way. You should step back and really assess your wording and approach
 
My dad always thought i was a lazy, selfish piece of shit teenager who's lack of accomplishment reflected directly on him. He never understood how much depression can sap your ability to get things done. I was always polite and just took what came. Pileing on and berating the kid doesn't help, because if the kid's at all self aware they are already beating themselves up for failing. Stacking on punishment just confirms the depression internal narrative that they suck and they deserve it. That's going to lead to a lifetime of poor choices made due to a lack of self worth and respect.

Treat the depression and you may have an entirely different kid on your hands. Continue the counseling with the medication and she may be able to wean off it over time. And if not, and she needs pills to live a successful life, so what? It's a lot better than toughing it out alone and being a failure at everything she ever hoped to accomplish.
 
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