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Panzers: I break rocks thread

bgaidan said:
Is that your native/overburden material?



Alos, pics of the vise?
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Fireball Vise pictures. Some plasma cut parts, a little machining, a few McMaster Carr parts and some welding and bingo a awesome vise.

I got a larger version 2 drawn up in my head just need spend some time and knock it out. I love this vise :smokin: I could bend that 7/8”x 4”ish plate from 90 to 180 degrees when it was red. It took some serious force to do that.


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lt1yj said:
Do you ever tig dress or grind the weld toe on those repairs? Either will double the fatigue life of the repair unless it unzips in the throat which just means you have an inclusion or lack of fusion.

The weld toe has a small crack at the toe from the molten weld quenching by the surrounding base material. Grinding the toe smooth and removing ~.5mm of material or tig dressing the toe to locally remelt the toe and create a small toe radius will eliminate the small crack.

It's still going to crack there again, it just gives you more time between repairs.
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No I do not do that. I should though. I wonder if a pass with the oxy welder would do the trick even better than a tig.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Yeah you need all the fine stone #4-3/4” to make it firm up. If that’s missing it will forever be soft :(
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yup like jell-o that dries to dust
been thinking about mixing in sand to firm it up, as I can get sand delivered for pretty cheap
also got some ideas coming together involving tires bolted together
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
No I do not do that. I should though. I wonder if a pass with the oxy welder would do the trick even better than a tig.
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I haven’t seen any research on any benefit of oxy welding the weld toe. There may be some advantage. Grinding and tug dressing are industry standards on mining and quarry equipment.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
And here I am crushing it into 1 1/2” stone to get $12 a ton for it :homer:
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I paid about $60 a ton on average for this stream mix - a matrix of everything from #78, 57 and class B quarry rock and , 2-4 and 3-7" cobble. The "imbricated" rock in the wall ran us about $45/ton.
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And the rock in this wall was around $55/ton - and I had to send a machine and operator to the pit to pick it out of the shot and load our own trucks. Some of the ones just below the water line were pushing 10-12 tons apiece! We deal with a lot of this type of specialty stuff. The pits know it's a PITA and they charge accordingly!
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Is there not a process similar to cold planing that could chew up the rock into whatever size you want and spit it out of a conveyor as it cruises through your pit?
 
2big bronco said:
Is there not a process similar to cold planing that could chew up the rock into whatever size you want and spit it out of a conveyor as it cruises through your pit?
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For coal mining they use a machine called a continuous miner that basically does what you are asking. For hard rock all you would do is wear out equipment if you tried using one.

I'm not sure about the rock he has but where I live it's all granite with a ton of quartz, you blast it with tight shot patterns and then it still comes out on 1-3 ft chunks.
 
speed bump said:
For coal mining they use a machine called a continuous miner that basically does what you are asking. For hard rock all you would do is wear out equipment if you tried using one.

I'm not sure about the rock he has but where I live it's all granite with a ton of quartz, you blast it with tight shot patterns and then it still comes out on 1-3 ft chunks.
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I suppose you would wear shit out.... it just seems like for smaller finished size material they would have some sort of track munted system (like anchored down ttain tracks) that could make multible passes back and forth with down pressure slowly cheweing away at the rock
 
2big bronco said:
I suppose you would wear shit out.... it just seems like for smaller finished size material they would have some sort of track munted system (like anchored down ttain tracks) that could make multible passes back and forth with down pressure slowly cheweing away at the rock
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There is some “control” in current crushing systems. Crusher type, speed, end clearance, crusher wear metal shape/material specifics can be adjusted to get desired output. Rock formations will break into predictable shapes and sizes given equal input.

Then the screening filters out over and under sized material. Over can be re-crushed or used in larger products. Various sizes can be combined into other products. And again, screen material type (woven wire, flat wire, punch plate, etc) and shape (square, rectangle, round), plus tilt, speed, and rotation (up or down hill) are all adjustable and predictable for efficiency/completeness of screening.

At the quarry I was at back in the day, it was "soft" limestone, so some of the alternatives were discussed and looked at like you describe.
 
bgaidan said:
When I worked in TX, south of Austin, there were pits that had overburden that met the DOT spec for flex base straight out of the ground.
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I was at some of those (or a little further on the north side of San Antonio.

We'd scrape the top "inches" of black/red dirt. Then drill/blast. The top caprock (5' or so) was always a bitch and usually ended up with the rock breaker. The first bench went to the base plant. Height would vary around 40-60'. If we went a little deeper, the quality would improve from using some of what usually went to the clean stone plant. The next 100-150' went through the primary plant to get crushed and washed. Some of the worst clay formations many had ever seen.
 
2big bronco said:
I suppose you would wear shit out.... it just seems like for smaller finished size material they would have some sort of track munted system (like anchored down ttain tracks) that could make multible passes back and forth with down pressure slowly cheweing away at the rock
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Sure you can do that, it`s just not cost effective.

Watch this video, it`s the only thing I know of that can break hard rock without blasting, hammering or abraiding.

The rollers on the cutting head have ****stain-tongueglide (tungsten-carbide) buttons that flake off bits of rock. The rollers are not powered, they`re just rolling along with the rotation of the bit. The machine at the top is pulling up with hundreds of tons of force.

This machine is cost effective because it`s a special application I guess.

 
2big bronco said:
I suppose you would wear shit out.... it just seems like for smaller finished size material they would have some sort of track munted system (like anchored down ttain tracks) that could make multible passes back and forth with down pressure slowly cheweing away at the rock
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Wirtgen makes a machine just as you described.

My rock is way too abrasive for that guy. It would make 2 passes and the numbs would be gone. Crushing all comes down to cost per ton. Blasting is by far the cheapest method to crush stone. The $1.50 or so a ton they charge me to get it into the pile is the cheapest part of the process. The $3.00-$4.00/ton I need to stick into it to get it crushed into the final product is where the cost is.

In my area there is some competition so I can only get so much per ton picked up so I need to stay in that range. It’s a interesting business with many angles you can play it.
 
Muckin_Slusher said:
Sure you can do that, it`s just not cost effective.

Watch this video, it`s the only thing I know of that can break hard rock without blasting, hammering or abraiding.

The rollers on the cutting head have ****stain-tongueglide (tungsten-carbide) buttons that flake off bits of rock. The rollers are not powered, they`re just rolling along with the rotation of the bit. The machine at the top is pulling up with hundreds of tons of force.

This machine is cost effective because it`s a special application I guess.

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Video was cool, but the total lack of ground support threw me for a loop. Never seen an underground mine without roof bolts.

The reason a raise bore is cost effective is because it's job is to make a hole between levels, not make ore.
 
IUsedtoBendCars said:
Video was cool, but the total lack of ground support threw me for a loop. Never seen an underground mine without roof bolts.

The reason a raise bore is cost effective is because it's job is to make a hole between levels, not make ore.
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Cool video, especially when it breaks through the top.

Someone should edit a jump-scare balrog into the bore inspection at the end.
 
Today was jaw die replacement. The stationary die in my lippmann 30x42 is cashed out. I cannot tighten it far enough so it’s time. While we are doing this I’ll put a new set of cheek plates. Not a fun job.
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Those cheek plates are just about worn through. They kinda suck to replace as the heads are all worn down on the bolts. Pulse they are kinda big and awkward.

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The used jaw die. It’s hard to see but the end opposite from the hook it has a 2” belly wore in it in the center. This one has been flipped once already.
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This is what they should look like. We need to get cheek plates installed first before we drop the jaw die in.
 
You either have the best welder, or the worst working for you. Cant find a bead anywhere that resembles a dick.
 
Blacksheep10 said:
Ha, with a cnc table, everything has dicks hidden in it!
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Panzer, how much are a die and cheek plates? What’s the largest piece to go through the grizzly bars and into the crusher?
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The cheek plates are two piece and they are 1 1/4” thick cast manganese steel. Lowers are probably 482# uppers are close to 620# according to the drawings. Less than $1 a pound for the plates not too bad. Prolly cheaper than I can source the Hardox for.

It’s about $2300 for everything including bolts. I could burn the out of Hardox plate but the 1” hole through 1 1/4 plate is tough for plasmas. Then I would still need to cut the bevel to countersink the bolt heads. So it’s a wash by just ordering the shit from the factory Vs making your own. I would still have to buy the bolts from the factory because they are not a standar bolt. It’s basically a square counter sunk bolt.

the grizzlies are set 4-5” slot between them. The cone can take those peices pretty well. The jaw will take a chunk of stone up to 30” wide at widest. We try to keep it to 24” and smaller. Less chance of getting 2 of them stuck on each other and causing a stuck. This is what the little 312 with the hammer on it is for. Going in there while it’s running to poke or break the ones stuck together. You get them unstuck while it’s not running and your fucked you’ll never get the wheels to spin without pulling them out with a chain.
Those wheels are scary to think about the inertia they have. 5’ diameter spin at 150rpm and weigh 3700# each. All to spin a eccentric shaft that’s only off by 3/4 of a inch.

Cool drawings they give you when you buy the machines. Redrawn in 1994 lol. These guys are a super old design but they are still by far the strongest jaws around. These are the jaws they use to crush engine blocks for the recyclers.

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This is the eccentric detail

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This is the cutaway drawing of the jaw itself.
 
I appreciate all that you have shared with this thread. You clearly are someone that can jump into anything and figure stuff out and make it work. I think I would enjoy working for you and learning from you. :beer:
 
Warning small rant:

I have a love hate relationship with this time of year. I love that there always more work than you can handle. I hate talking to people getting the details for what they want. It’s painful. I have to ask so many questions to make sure we haul the right stuff.

What sets me off is the husband makes the wife call and make the order. Of course she doesn’t know the answers to my questions so she then has a conversation with her husband who is standing right fucking next to her. I get confused because I’m trying to keep up with their conversation. Fucking frustrating.

Sad thing is I’m guessing that over 50% of the calls I get are like this. Message of the day don’t be a bitch and order the shit yourself don’t make your wife do it. :homer:
 
They probably make their wife call because they don't really know what they want. Then they can blame the confusion on the wife!

When ever I need rock or sand, I know what I want but I never know what it's called.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Warning small rant:

I have a love hate relationship with this time of year. I love that there always more work than you can handle. I hate talking to people getting the details for what they want. It’s painful. I have to ask so many questions to make sure we haul the right stuff.

What sets me off is the husband makes the wife call and make the order. Of course she doesn’t know the answers to my questions so she then has a conversation with her husband who is standing right fucking next to her. I get confused because I’m trying to keep up with their conversation. Fucking frustrating.

Sad thing is I’m guessing that over 50% of the calls I get are like this. Message of the day don’t be a bitch and order the shit yourself don’t make your wife do it. :homer:
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place I call has a gal on the phone
might be worthwhile to pay one of your guys to do the phone thing so you don't have to waste time dealing with idiots hemming and hawwing over the hundred dollar difference between a load of road gravel and clear stone
 
Right, the person answering the phone needs to know about 10 to 15 product lines, Hell even if it is 20 that should not be a long training process. The customer calling probably doesn’t know what the fuck they want and you probably don’t speak their language:laughing:
 
[486] said:
place I call has a gal on the phone
might be worthwhile to pay one of your guys to do the phone thing so you don't have to waste time dealing with idiots hemming and hawwing over the hundred dollar difference between a load of road gravel and clear stone
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Blacksheep10 said:
Right, the person answering the phone needs to know about 10 to 15 product lines, Hell even if it is 20 that should not be a long training process. The customer calling probably doesn’t know what the fuck they want and you probably don’t speak their language:laughing:
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That just it I can’t put a flunky on the phone. The what are you trying to do question is the most important one. Then I can recommend them what to do and what yo buy. It sucks dropping the wrong
Shit off. People cry and I usually haul a second load for nothing just to keep them happy.

In all honesty these sales only account for less than 10% if my yearly sales but are 75% of the headaches. I do it to keep the neighbors happy. I give them good deals to keep me on their good side.

I should try to find another good driver or two and hit this harder so I can justify hiring a competent phone person.

Minor rant over lol
 
By the 80/20 rule, you should fire those customers, but keeping neighbors happy is understandable when you make noise and dust for a living :laughing:

But maybe you can help them cost you less time. Is there some spot you can knock together (however many you need) 1'x1'x6" boxes near the gate & fill each with a sand/gravel option w/ a label?

"Thanks for calling, you indecisive, clueless time-wasting clusterfuck. I don't have time to jerk you off right now, but I built a fookin' Burger King menu for your hapless ass right by my gate. Please drop by at your convenience, check out what we have, then call back when you have a freakin' clue what you want."​
​
(but say that^ nicely) :laughing:
 
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