What's new
By:
Filters

Old used plasma table vs. buying new

desertPOS

desertPOS

Red Skull Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2020
Member Number
2236
Messages
356
Once I have room, hopefully soon, I've been wanting to pick up a plasma table - been eying the Langmuir Systems Crossfire Pro:

CrossFire PRO CNC Plasma | Production Ready CNC Plasma Table

The 4'x3' Crossfire PRO CNC plasma table features powered Z-axis, height sensing and an optional automatic THC module. Take your fabrication to the next level.
www.langmuirsystems.com www.langmuirsystems.com

In the meantime, I've seen a few used tables at auction go for peanuts - like $450 each for a couple tables at auction a few months ago, like below:
image025.jpeg


My experience with a used Plasma Cam table is that they don't really have customer service or support for old product, and you're on your own to figure out any software or hardware issues. The above table has rusty parts on all the little moving parts near the torch head mount, pretty heavy rust down in the water table and collection screen - I'm assuming a bunch of little parts would probably need to be replaced, clean up a bunch of rust, make sure electronics/board operable, etc.

Anybody done something like that, or care to comment on PlasmaCam's parts availability for old machines? For the price point of the Langmuir for a new table with new software and customer service for around ~$3k for a guy like me that doesn't need high production that seems pretty tough to beat. On the other hand, the table pictured above has a much better water table design (sloped with cleanout tray on one end) and 4x4' instead of 2x3'

If I find one for cheap I may just get it and see what I can figure out. If anyone else has done similar it'd be cool to hear your experience. I'm just tired of cutting everything out by hand:homer:
 
If you know your way around a table, you can put one together for peanuts.
Get an older table and turn it into what you want super easy

I looked at the PCam's, not impressed at all with them at the time, just flimsy
There are people that live by them, I wasn't one

I ended up going with a Torchmate, back when TM was on Pirate

Customer service was top notch then, but as you know Torchmate is now Lincoln and Pirate is for the meteric system
last time I called TM customer service was 50% of what it was, and parts were waayyyyy more money, they just jump to 'you need parts' rather than helping you trouble shoot like the old TM

I have about resourced every part that I need and just go around them now

That is what I know, I hope it helps
 
Grab that old table for peanuts and retrofit it with something like candcnc electronics. I’ve done a couple retros and new builds with their stuff and zero complaints. Plus you’ll know your way around it by the time you’re done setting it up.

That crossfire leaves a lot to be desired for the investment you could put into bringing something old up to speed.

ETA: the retrofits were on newer tables with shit controls that were purchased for $10-20k if that gives you an idea of the quality of their stuff. It’s still what I would call hobbyists or light commercial level components, but much better than some of the commercially sold tables.
 
Here's an interesting thread:
irate4x4.com

Talon2006 CNC Plasma table build

I am still pretty far out from starting this, but with graduation from graduate school being behind me the possibility is more real. There are a lot of good entry model machines out there, and they are tempting, I still think this might be a better situation for where I am. First, I want to...
irate4x4.com irate4x4.com

That's all completely custom and not sure I would really want to get into all of that... I know there is a thread or two on Pirate about custom building a table but iirc you'd have to be able to wire motors and do a bunch of stuff I can't see myself trying to figure out right now.

So about a decade ago a friend of mine bought a used PlasmaCAM table and we hooked an old pc to it that probably had it's own issues, but after they realized their business model of cutting out clipart wasn't going to go anywhere, they just told me I could use it whenever I wanted, and I was able to get it to do what I wanted most of the time, and cut a bunch of parts out on it over the span of about a year. I got it dialed for cutting 3/16" pretty clean, but anything thicker or thinner required a lot of cleanup. The software seemed super outdated to me at the time, and most of what I'd cut out was stuff I designed at home on Adobe Illustrator, saved as a DXF file, then took over on a thumb drive and imported into the Pcam software and somehow made it work. During that time we ended up having to change out the motherboard (or some type of board) and had to change out the little 'belts' on it. That's all my experience with that...

The idea of paying ~$3k for a crossfire pro that is all new, with Fusion 360 (I think that's what they typically work with) and having forum support and customer service is pretty appealing. If nothing else I could use the shit out of it until I outgrew it, and know a lot more moving forward if I got to the point where I needed a bigger machine.

In the meantime, my biggest interest in some of these used tables would be if I could put in a little effort in rebuilding it into a more robust machine that would work better and have more capability long-term, that might be worth looking into. As I stated before, the water table looks a lot better in the plasmacam than the Langmuir. I guess my next step would be to call and get ahold of someone at PlasmaCAM and see what support they have on used stuff, and what price/ability there is to buy replacement parts for it. And how many different iterations of parts have there been over the past decade? If new PC tables use all the same parts as tables from 10 years ago, it'd probably be a little more straight forward than if they change things yearly over the past decade - especially if they don't stock any of the old stuff and everything would have to be upgraded to new to make an old table work. For $20k or more to buy one of these things, mechanically there just doesn't seem to be that much there - the electrical parts and computer parts seem to be what you're paying for? Anyway, just rambling a bit, but their website doesn't appear to have been updated at all over the past decade, so maybe their machines haven't either...

On one end of the spectrum you're spending a bunch of time researching and building custom, wiring up different servos or motors or whatever you have to do to build a custom table. On the other end of the spectrum you just finance a big badass machine that does everything you want out of the gate. I'm probably somewhere in the middle, wondering if a used PlasmaCAM is a good base to get and build on, or just skip a lot of crawling down the rabbit hole and getting a mid-grade table that can cut parts for me without a lot of fuss:grinpimp:
 
AK_F250 said:
Grab that old table for peanuts and retrofit it with something like candcnc electronics. I’ve done a couple retros and new builds with their stuff and zero complaints. Plus you’ll know your way around it by the time you’re done setting it up.

That crossfire leaves a lot to be desired for the investment you could put into bringing something old up to speed.

ETA: the retrofits were on newer tables with shit controls that were purchased for $10-20k if that gives you an idea of the quality of their stuff. It’s still what I would call hobbyists or light commercial level components, but much better than some of the commercially sold tables.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to these guys?:
 
FWIW, I mulled over this decision and decided it'd be about as expensive, and much, much more time to piece together a DIY plasma table, or fix/retrofit an old one. I got a crossfire PRO from langmuir during the preorder phase 1 and I love it. I don't do production work, and for the one off stuff I'm usually fooling with, it's the bees knees.
 
Fwiw I built my own, just help a buddy retrofit a old one he bought and my little brother bought a brand new one.

Of the options if you have the cash buy a good new one. If do don’t have the cash retrofit a old one with candcnc stuf, if you like making work for yourself build your own.

Be cautioned the retrofitting and diy will come with a education price. Your gonna have to learn the ins and outs of your table. My buddy who was doing the retro fitting was getting super frustrated was thinking about selling it. I was able to solve his problem with a 30 min conversation over the phone.

Me I want the gantry and servos off my brothers new one, want to use the old candcnc mach4 program to control it on a water tank built by me. That probably close to how my next one will go .
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
FWIW, I mulled over this decision and decided it'd be about as expensive, and much, much more time to piece together a DIY plasma table, or fix/retrofit an old one. I got a crossfire PRO from langmuir during the preorder phase 1 and I love it. I don't do production work, and for the one off stuff I'm usually fooling with, it's the bees knees.
Click to expand...
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Fwiw I built my own, just help a buddy retrofit a old one he bought and my little brother bought a brand new one.

Of the options if you have the cash buy a good new one. If do don’t have the cash retrofit a old one with candcnc stuf, if you like making work for yourself build your own.

Be cautioned the retrofitting and diy will come with a education price. Your gonna have to learn the ins and outs of your table. My buddy who was doing the retro fitting was getting super frustrated was thinking about selling it. I was able to solve his problem with a 30 min conversation over the phone.

Me I want the gantry and servos off my brothers new one, want to use the old candcnc mach4 program to control it on a water tank built by me. That probably close to how my next one will go .
Click to expand...

Ok, good info in both posts. I think I'll deep dive into the CandCNC stuff so I understand it better and go from there:beer:
 
desertPOS said:
Ok, good info in both posts. I think I'll deep dive into the CandCNC stuff so I understand it better and go from there:beer:
Click to expand...
Their website looks like a 5th grader made it and their control packaging is not the greatest. With that said their stuff inside the boxes is legit.
 
I've been happy with my langmuir first version machine. I bought the razor weld cut44 with it. The hand torch they sent with the machine at the time left a lot to be desired. I've upgraded the torch to their machine torch and have much better results. I've been using the hypertherm powermax45 cutting feeds and speeds and piercing delays, and that seems to be working well. I have the water table and got the XL rails. I haven't needed more table travel than that yet for normal 4x4 brackets and such.

I do think the pro with z axis, AVC, THC, and their firecontrol software to run the machine look like better products than my model and running mach3. I haven't had any machine problems to date, and I've had it running since early 2019.

I don't care for the free version of fusion360 that I'm currently using to make dxf files in - autodesk has nerfed a lot of features to make it overly cumbersome to use - like you can only save 10 projects, their cam software defaults to millimeters for units and you have to change it every time to inches, no nesting features...

I bought sheetcam to solve the frustrating fusion360 cam software environment, and am about to buy the solidworks maker $100/year subscription to overcome the rest of my need for fusion360.
 
Last edited:
I built the table you pulled up the thread for.

I have since built a 5x10 and am running it for production work.

If I could have found a used plasma table frame pre built, and could have retrofitted it I would have. I almost did but the guy wanted way to much for the frame.

As far as control… the C and cnc control has a LOT of markup in it. Plasma controls are stupid easy to build. I think I posted the wiring diagram for my control in my build thread. It’s as simple as copying that picture.

For the DIY control. You are not going to find better than Linux. Jim colt himself has said that a program that has integrated THC is what you need for plasma. Linux is about the only software that did when I looked. There are a few companies coming out with a THC that is intergrated , but it is pricy.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Me I want the gantry and servos off my brothers new one, want to use the old candcnc mach4 program to control it on a water tank built by me. That probably close to how my next one will go .
Click to expand...
turn your current overly heavy and slow one into a router
buy new high speed one for new shop space
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh