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[486]

[486]

ugh, that guy again?
Joined
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pine city MN
looking all halfass at something like a pvs-14 kit build but 1500 buckaroos is a bit more than casual throwing around money

thermals seem way cooler, but again, no idea man
steer me right, ya'll know what's what
 
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If you could steer me in the direction of resources on building a PVS-14 for $1500 I would love to know more. I want night vision but I don't 8-10,000 bucks want night vision.

They kinda serve different purposes, thermal is the fastest way to locate and observe a warm blooded target, but NVGs are more useful for moving around in the dark. The high speed tacticool guys all seem to run 2 tube night vision on their helmet and a separate hand held thermal unit for observation.
 
If you think $1500 for a PVS-14 is steep, then you haven't looked at thermals much.
Any thermal worth the time is $2500 or more.
Unfortunately, there isnt a one size fits all solution for NV and Thermal.

Are you looking for a setup for hunting or tacticool things?
If hunting a thermal or night vision scope is probably the best option.
If wanting to play tacticool a pvs 14 or dual pvs-14s and IR laser like a dball.
Googles or monoculars are difficult to get a cheekweld with.
 
TrikeKid said:
If you could steer me in the direction of resources on building a PVS-14 for $1500 I would love to know more. I want night vision but I don't 8-10,000 bucks want night vision.

They kinda serve different purposes, thermal is the fastest way to locate and observe a warm blooded target, but NVGs are more useful for moving around in the dark. The high speed tacticool guys all seem to run 2 tube night vision on their helmet and a separate hand held thermal unit for observation.
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Used to think the same but don't anymore. Garand Thumb did a airsoft event the thermal were amazing and next level up on the NV. Bummer is there cost more.
 
PVS-31 is current military/law enforcement issue. $13k.
 
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aron82 said:
Googles or monoculars are difficult to get a cheekweld with.
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I watch a lot of the special forces guys on youtube that spent their entire careers in combat and are now getting out and starting up businesses using all that knowledge gained in 20 years of war just because its interesting as hell to me.

Seems like one of the latest things that they fine tuned, at least that ive seen and is working its way into the private sector, is to mount their optics way high off the rail of the gun. Opens up real-estate on the rail for other stuff like lights, ir illumination, or whatever and makes it easier to get a sight picture while wearing NV without having to move your head down to the gun or get a cheek weld. Its more like they just snap the rifle up to their natural line of sight. Pretty cool.
 
Depends on what youre plans are. For hunting open areas night vision works well. In dense area with lots of cover IR thermal set to white hot works very well for picking out targets that maybe hiding. For longer ranges NVs have a drawback on overcast nights with no moon or stars, where as IR doesnt have that problem. Rain and fog make IR just about useless, and regardless to what you see on TV you cant see through glass with IR so using (most) magnification doesnt work. NV works fine behind magnification.

Like the other have said $1500 wont get you shit. The toys Ive played with start about $15k for small NV monocles and go up to several hundred grand.
 
Stuck said:
Depends on what youre plans are. For hunting open areas night vision works well. In dense area with lots of cover IR thermal set to white hot works very well for picking out targets that maybe hiding. For longer ranges NVs have a drawback on overcast nights with no moon or stars, where as IR doesnt have that problem. Rain and fog make IR just about useless, and regardless to what you see on TV you cant see through glass with IR so using (most) magnification doesnt work. NV works fine behind magnification.

Like the other have said $1500 wont get you shit. The toys Ive played with start about $15k for small NV monocles and go up to several hundred grand.
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You are a bit behind on the times. Current issue NV for military is $13K. If you want gangster vision quad nods cost $40K.
 
I bought an ATN-THOR thermal scope a few years ago for my predator rifle. I believe I paid 4,500.00 for it. It is super high tech and super hard to learn all the bells and whistles. Works like a champ and can be co-witnessed/controlled by your phone with the obsidian app. It performs exactly as advertised. Cons-the base/ring mounting system is made for AR platforms instead of bolt action rifles and looks stupid as hell on a bolt action. The charging cord does not make a positive "click" into the port on the scope. Just kind of lays in there and you have to assume it is charging. I use a rubber band on mine to ensure it is maintaining contact.

Why would you want night vision? I don't think you want the misery that comes with them just so you can see in the dark in front of your friends. I wore the old 7's and then the new 6 and 9's up til I retired in 2012 and let me tell you, they are not fun to wear. The PVS-7 use a net and strap mount that will squeeze your head like a grape resulting in migraines. The AN/VS 6's and 9's require a helmet and battery pack that takes a long time to build the muscles up in your neck to support them. More migraines. If either one isn't adjusted just perfect, migraines. You can't see shit inside of 20 to 30 ft and will trip over everything while you are walking. It takes a while to train your brain and eyes on how to jump back and forth between the NOD's and looking under them to perform close in tasks. If you don't have an IR laser, you can't shoot with them. (well, with any accuracy). Can you even buy an IR laser? For those of you that are going to say EOTechs and shit have NVG settings, I will say show me how you are going to get those tubes down in from of that sight and keep alignment to pull off an accurate shot. I don't know, I have no purpose or desire for NOD's in the civilian world.
 
DICKWEED said:
For those of you that are going to say EOTechs and shit have NVG settings, I will say show me how you are going to get those tubes down in from of that sight and keep alignment to pull off an accurate shot. I don't know, I have no purpose or desire for NOD's in the civilian world.
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I think DJ is trying to sell you something. Not entirely enthused about him and others like him working for company's that are trying to get America to buy all this stupid shit or monopolizing on their "silent professional" careers. Bolting shit to your AR isn't going to make you a better shooter, it just makes your gun heavier.

I have to be honest, I have never been a fan of civilians having or needing everything the military has. Not going to argue about it, just never equated to me. You can go buy his new "sticks off the rail 12inches" site, I will put my money on the guy with an IR laser. Well, I guess that only applies if my target doesn't have night vision...
 
DICKWEED said:
I think DJ is trying to sell you something. Not entirely enthused about him and others like him working for company's that are trying to get America to buy all this stupid shit or monopolizing on their "silent professional" careers. Bolting shit to your AR isn't going to make you a better shooter, it just makes your gun heavier.

I have to be honest, I have never been a fan of civilians having or needing everything the military has. Not going to argue about it, just never equated to me. You can go buy his new "sticks off the rail 12inches" site, I will put my money on the guy with an IR laser. Well, I guess that only applies if my target doesn't have night vision...
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Okay thanks for sharing. You asked for someone to show you how to aim while wearing night vision and thats how people are doing it now.

I dont own any night vision or plan on getting any. I tried it out for coyote hunting and not for me. Back to lights.
 
I get the feeling "high speed low drag" doesn't matter and this is going to go on a gun that lives beside whatever windowsill covers both the compost pile and the driveway and the point of this exercise is to prevent a neighbor from accidentally getting ventilated for trying to deliver a package that UPS left on the wrong doorstep.
 
Animalmother said:
Okay thanks for sharing. You asked for someone to show you how to aim while wearing night vision and thats how people are doing it now.

I dont own any night vision or plan on getting any. I tried it out for coyote hunting and not for me. Back to lights.
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I do a lot of predator hunting. The ATN works great but I still use gun lights by Wildlife Pursuit.
 
arse_sidewards said:
I get the feeling "high speed low drag" doesn't matter and this is going to go on a gun that lives beside whatever windowsill covers both the compost pile and the driveway and the point of this exercise is to prevent a neighbor from accidentally getting ventilated for trying to deliver a package that UPS left on the wrong doorstep.
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raccoons, coyotes, that sorta shit
yeah, yeah "just use a bigass flashlight"
nah, man, I'm a goddamn american

Stuck said:
Like the other have said $1500 wont get you shit.
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you'd buy the 'parts kit' which is everything but the tube, then you'd buy the tube separate and assemble yourself
looking into it now they seem to be starting around 2-2500 now, prolly ukraine bullshit

I also realize that thermals are like woah expensive in comparison, but if the difference is worth it which it seems like it... kinda wonder on battery life though, the pvs 7 runs on a single AA for a while, thermals got a lot more computer shit going on in there rather than just a dumb old cathode ray tube and power supply
 
[486] said:
looking all halfass at something like a pvs-14 kit build but 1500 buckaroos is a bit more than casual throwing around money

thermals seem way cooler, but again, no idea man
steer me right, ya'll know what's what
Click to expand...

first, if you are going thermal, need to figure out if you want a clip-on or dedicated scope, or something in the handheld flavor or a combo. i had a Bering Super Yoter for a while. it was pretty neat as it was my dedicated scope and i could take it off and scan with it. someone told me you couldnt do that and would need the clip-on instead. that was bull, as i used it both ways.

i sold the Yoter as i dont have time for it right now. but in the near future when i can make the time for night hunting, i plan for my setup to be a WP PVS-14 mounted on a helmet and a thermal mounted on a gun.

Here are some options for thermal:

Nvision Halo line
Bering Hogster line or Yoter
Iray RH25 is a mini-handheld type
Nox 18

and i hear Steiner has some new thermals out.


Thermal and NV is a rabbit hole you need to be prepared to dive into fully. Chinese cores vs USA made cores, warranties, etc.
 
[486] said:
I also realize that thermals are like woah expensive in comparison, but if the difference is worth it which it seems like it... kinda wonder on battery life though, the pvs 7 runs on a single AA for a while, thermals got a lot more computer shit going on in there rather than just a dumb old cathode ray tube and power supply
Click to expand...

most thermals can easily be hooked to external battery packs for 12-14 hours of operation. as a comparision, the Bering had internal battery using 2 cr123 and it would last about 3 hours.
 
I have a Trijicon REAP IR 35mm thermal and I would never trade it for NV. White hot will show you everything warm including mice. Black hot is not as quick to identify things, but trees and structure are easier to see. I've heard the Hogster is pretty good for the money, but I've never handled one.
 
the bering offerings are way cheaper than I was expecting
midwestthermaloptic.com

BERING OPTICS

Thermal Optic Hunting Scopes, Thermal Monoculars, Thermal Scanners, Helmet Mount Thermals, Hunting Supplies, Night Vision, Hunting Tripods Hog Hunting, Coyote Hunting, Varmit Hunting, Personal Security Scanners
midwestthermaloptic.com midwestthermaloptic.com
 
Aisin said:
You are a bit behind on the times. Current issue NV for military is $13K. If you want gangster vision quad nods cost $40K.
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That was supposed to be IR monocles not NV and its been a few years but the limitations are still the same.
 
My experience with night vision (NVGs) and thermal (AN/TAS-4) dates back to the mid 80 / early 90s. I’m sure technology has advanced a lot since then. They both have their pros and cons. I preferred thermal over NVGs, the goggles always gave me neck pain and headaches 😕
 
smurfblue40 said:
My experience with night vision (NVGs) and thermal (AN/TAS-4) dates back to the mid 80 / early 90s. I’m sure technology has advanced a lot since then. They both have their pros and cons. I preferred thermal over NVGs, the goggles always gave me neck pain and headaches 😕
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Damn man, the oldest ones I have ever had on were PVS-5's. Pretty much akin to strapping a cinderblock to your face and no battery pack to balance out the load. Was like looking through a green tinted static TV. Very hard to make out anything. Last ones were the 9's and they were awesome, very clear, no red or white light bloom and could actually correct vision.
 
Got to play with a Pulsar thermal recently and I believe one is in my future. Sub’d to learn more.
 
DICKWEED said:
Damn man, the oldest ones I have ever had on were PVS-5's. Pretty much akin to strapping a cinderblock to your face and no battery pack to balance out the load. Was like looking through a green tinted static TV. Very hard to make out anything.
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The PVS-5’s were standard issue to M-901 (TOW ITV) crews when I was in. I have a scar on my lower lip from the drivers hatch ring where I kissed it during some night driving. I couldn’t distinguish what the blob was at the bottom of an incline. The blob turned out to be a ditch that stopped the APC instantly :eek:

The PVS-7’s weren’t much of an improvement, unless completely removing any chance of depth perception was their goal :homer:
 
If you want a nice thermal at a nice price point, look at the AGM Rattler line.
Awhile back I picked up a brand new Rattler TS25-384 (25mm objective, 384 resolution) 17 micron for $1800ish from shootingsurplus.com. I was very impressed with the clarity/resolution/detail of the picture. I hear the AGMs use the same thermal technology as what Bearing Optics uses in their thermals (which is different from what most/all other thermals use), which makes the AGM and BO work a little better in higher humidity situations. I don't recall what they call the technology, off the top of my head.
I have looked through ATN and Pulsar thermals (these are $4-5K thermals) and my AGM Rattler blows them away, IMO. Not to mention the AGMs are cheaper. I can easily see birds/mice at 80-100 yards with the Rattler.
I was originally looking at the Hogster/Super Hogster from Bearing Optics, but ran across the AGM Rattlers, and thought I'd give one of them a shot (mainly, because I had heard they were coming out with a new version of the Super Hogster later this year that has a LRF (laser range finder) built into it). I was thinking I needed an LRF, because it is hard to judge distances in unfamiliar territory at night. But after having the AGM, I might look at the AGM Varmint line with the LRF for my main gun mounted thermal. But I haven't fully convinced myself I need an LRF on a thermal yet. But when I do decide, I am 99% sure it will be either an AGM or Bearing Optics thermal, LRF or not.
I picked up the Rattler TS-25 to use as a scanner/monocular, but still have the option to use it as a scope. I thought about buying just a quality monocular...but it just works as a monocular and nothing more. Yes, the scope is heavier than a monocular and larger (but as far as thermal scopes go, the Rattlers are actually pretty compact compared to most) but I don't have any issues with the size or weight when using it as a scanner.
My dad picked up a Rattler TS35-640 12 micron. Honestly, I am not sure the extra cost (I think his was $3200ish) is worth the "upgrade" to 35mm and 640 resolution and 12 micron. You can see a little more details in objects with his vs. mine and you can click one zoom level (2x) with his and still have a fairly decent image, where on mine you pretty much lose the image (gets very grainy). When I decide on my gun mounted thermal, I might have to go with the 640 and 12 micron, just to have the ability to zoom at least once and still have a clear enough image to get on target.
Both use the 123 sized batteries (yeah, the little expensive fuckers). I run mine off a external Anker battery pack ($20ish on Amazon) that fits in a shirt/coat pocket. It is about the size of a pack of cigs and I have yet to need to recharge it (probably ran the thermal 10-12 hours so far off of it).
Both AGM thermals have 16GB of built in storage (no memory card). I usually just turn on the recording and let it run the whole time I am scanning. That way if I see something, I don't have to fumble around with starting the recording. In the 3 or 4 hours a night I am out, it hasn't even came close to filling up the 8GB. I usually download/erase the video each night, to clean up the memory. I probably have 8 hours of recording on it now, since I haven't cleared the memory from a couple of nights and it is just starting to show that it starting to fill the card. It does compress the video, so what you record is lesser quality than what you see when looking through the scope.
This is my .02 after hum-hoing around and spending countless hours researching thermals, watching videos, etc., to try to decide which one would work for my use and be the best bang for the buck.
 
thanks man
they caught my eye on price alone

I mean shit their little lower resolution ts19-256 ones are a thousand bucks, wtf, that's some future shit
 
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