New Asian Bloc Economy

[TheCopperCowboy]

So, I was driving around yesterday and this pops up on the financial news. It's a play around the U.S. imposed tariffs and could boost their economy with more Countries joining. Discuss;

https://www.reuters.com/article/asean-trade-summit-rcep-signing-idUSKBN27V03K

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54949260

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ific-countries-agree-historic-free-trade-deal

https://www.usnews.com/news/busines...-other-partners-set-worlds-biggest-trade-pact

I suck at adding links, my bad.

 

[ev13wt]

As I said yesterday, Australia is with them as well.

 

[MuntCuffin]

As I said yesterday, Australia is with them as well.

Awesome. More targets for WW3.

 

[montrose818]

Awesome. More targets for WW3.

Why cant we all just... get along

 

[MuntCuffin]

Why cant we all just... get along

Because that ship has sailed.

 

[Provience]

Why cant we all just... get along

because communists are intolerant to diversity.

edit: it's one of their hallmarks

 

[Provience]

on the one hand, i don't particularly give a fuck.

the TPPP was a generally shit deal and is no loss, individual country deals are the better route to take and i'm curious how far some of these countries will go with allowing china inroads before they start crying about fairness. I hope they don't destroy, or allow to be replaced, too much of their vital internal structures by supplanting it with chinese slave labor.

edit:

The deal marks the first time rival East Asian powers China, Japan and South Korea have been in a single free trade agreement.

these will be the ones to watch and i hope it works out for them.

 

[SanDiegoCJ]

on the one hand, i don't particularly give a fuck.

the TPPP was a generally shit deal and is no loss, individual country deals are the better route to take and i'm curious how far some of these countries will go with allowing china inroads before they start crying about fairness. I hope they don't destroy, or allow to be replaced, too much of their vital internal structures by supplanting it with chinese slave labor.

edit:

these will be the ones to watch and i hope it works out for them.

Countries make trade deals with neighbors all the time. I see this as China giving us the for Trump's tariff actions. It's irrelevant that the tariffs were justified, it pissed off China and this is their response. I see more coming in the future.

 

[Provience]

Countries make trade deals with neighbors all the time. I see this as China giving us the for Trump's tariff actions. It's irrelevant that the tariffs were justified, it pissed off China and this is their response. I see more coming in the future.

maybe, i dunno. even if we hadn't increase chinese tarriffs, china was still going to continue their long efforts to dominate the region.

nobody equates anything with "trump" over chinas belt/road initiative's in the ME and Africa, similar kind of shit going on over there albeit rather than pursuing free trade, china is openly buying corrupt governments for access and power.

 

[Eric]

The notion that China is leading a "free trade" bloc is beyond absurd.

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

its almost like fucking with china and pulling out of the TPP leads to bad things for the US there. china just filling in the void we left.

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

Countries make trade deals with neighbors all the time. I see this as China giving us the for Trump's tariff actions. It's irrelevant that the tariffs were justified, it pissed off China and this is their response. I see more coming in the future.

did you think china was just gona sit idle in the corner? trump put tariffs on them. then he pulled out of the TPP. its a perfect opportunity for them to get in where we pulled out. why wouldn't they? we would do it in a heart beat if the tables were turned.

 

[Slander]

maybe, i dunno. even if we hadn't increase chinese tarriffs, china was still going to continue their long efforts to dominate the region.

nobody equates anything with "trump" over chinas belt/road initiative's in the ME and Africa, similar kind of shit going on over there albeit rather than pursuing free trade, china is openly buying corrupt governments for access and power.

I had a former employee from Ghana and he was telling me about how much money is being invested and infrastructure china is building in africa. In exchange the Chinese are getting special treatment from the local governments and taking over local businesses and factories. Sounds like china is doing what we were doing in the 80s and 90s, our labor was too expensive and we offshored it, china's labor is getting too expensive so they are finding cheaper labor. One could argue this is a good for standard of living over all for the planet, but sucks because it lowers the high standards for rich nation's.

It is fun watching people REEEEEEEE over china doing what we have been doing for a long time. Along with currency manipulation and rigging other countries elections.

Tarrif's fuck over private business and the consumer and does fuck all to the country, especially when the country issueing the tarrifs doesn't have the manufacturing infrastructure to make thier own shit.

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

I had a former employee form Ghana and he was telling me about how much money and infrastructure china is building in africa. In exchange the Chinese are getting special treatment from the local governments and taking over local businesses and factories. Sounds like china is doing what we were doing in the 80s and 90s, our labor was too expensive and we offshored it, china's labor is getting too expensive so they are finding cheaper labor. One could argue this is a good for standard of life over all for the planet, but sucks because it lowers the high standards for rich nation's.

It is fun watching people REEEEEEEE over china doing what we have been doing for a long time. Along with currency manipulation and rigging other countries elections.

exactly what they are doing. africa is china's, china.

 

[Provience]

its almost like fucking with china and pulling out of the TPP leads to bad things for the US there. china just filling in the void we left.

you would think that, if you were a simpleton

sept 2019 - US Japan Trade Deal

https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-of...september/fact-sheet-us-japan-trade-agreement

On March 28, Korea and the United States released a joint statement announcing that they had “reached an agreement in principle on the general terms of amendments and modifications to the United States–Republic of Korea Free Trade Agreement.”[SUP]15[/SUP] The two parties signed the renegotiated trade deal on September 24, 2018.[SUP]16[/SUP]

https://www.cato.org/publications/f...ade-deal-slightly-revised-korea-us-free-trade

the US doesn't need the TPPP. we engage in more direct and commonly bi-lateral deals.

 

[Provience]

did you think china was just gona sit idle in the corner? trump put tariffs on them. then he pulled out of the TPP. its a perfect opportunity for them to get in where we pulled out. why wouldn't they? we would do it in a heart beat if the tables were turned.

TPPP was engineered but never entered under obama, trump just formally killed the thing that never (rightly so) got started.

The tariffs came well after TPP was dead and, despite all the propaganda BS you are being fed, had fuckall to do with china seeking to increase influence in SE asia

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

TPPP was engineered but never entered under obama, trump just formally killed the thing that never (rightly so) got started.

The tariffs came well after TPP was dead and, despite all the propaganda BS you are being fed, had fuckall to do with china seeking to increase influence in SE asia

wow you're an expert in this as well?

is there no bounds to your knowledge? do you live in a library?

 

[Provience]

I had a former employee from Ghana and he was telling me about how much money is being invested and infrastructure china is building in africa. In exchange the Chinese are getting special treatment from the local governments and taking over local businesses and factories. Sounds like china is doing what we were doing in the 80s and 90s, our labor was too expensive and we offshored it, china's labor is getting too expensive so they are finding cheaper labor. One could argue this is a good for standard of living over all for the planet, but sucks because it lowers the high standards for rich nation's.

It is fun watching people REEEEEEEE over china doing what we have been doing for a long time. Along with currency manipulation and rigging other countries elections.

Tarrif's fuck over private business and the consumer and does fuck all to the country, especially when the country issueing the tarrifs doesn't have the manufacturing infrastructure to make thier own shit.

the BBC radio had a segment talking about it today regarding Kenya and how the vast majority is being withheld from "the people" via government corruption. basically Kenya is looking to the IMF and China as alternatives to their structural issues and china is cheaper They had a quote about a port that china financed in the "examples why china is better than IMF or USA or EU".

all the surveys and reports said it would not be practical or beneficial to create the port at the location. the chinese came along and agreed to finance the endeavor and now we are able to have an increase in tourism to that specific region.

uh yeah, because china doesn't really give a fuck about viability of the loan and neither do the corrupt officials, they will be more than happy to confiscate or barter whatever power they need to "forgive" the unmanageable loans 🤣

then the BBC reporter

But it is not all negatives from the chinese investment, they have upgrade many roads that have significantly reduced travel times

alright, well in 30 years when we are no long talking about european african colonization impacts and in 60 years when we are talking about the civil wars to toss out the chinese colonizers in africa, let's discuss how awesome the roads are to remind ourselves what was traded away by the known corrupt powers that be!

 

[Provience]

wow you're an expert in this as well?

is there no bounds to your knowledge? do you live in a library?

jesus christ, that isn't any sort of expert shit. that is simply "people that have had a pulse for the last decade" level shit.

maybe i really do read to much news, is the simpleton narrative actually getting blasted that trump pulled us out of TPPP so that china could reign supreme is that what sleepy joe has been telling the people?

your bubble is dense, good luck with it

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

jesus christ, that isn't any sort of expert shit. that is simply "people that have had a pulse for the last decade" level shit.

maybe i really do read to much news, is the simpleton narrative actually getting blasted that trump pulled us out of TPPP so that china could reign supreme is that what sleepy joe has been telling the people?

your bubble is dense, good luck with it

its not "so" china could get the leg up. its because he was too stupid to see the play. they took advantage.

 

[Slander]

the BBC radio had a segment talking about it today regarding Kenya and how the vast majority is being withheld from "the people" via government corruption. basically Kenya is looking to the IMF and China as alternatives to their structural issues and china is cheaper They had a quote about a port that china financed in the "examples why china is better than IMF or USA or EU".



uh yeah, because china doesn't really give a fuck about viability of the loan and neither do the corrupt officials, they will be more than happy to confiscate or barter whatever power they need to "forgive" the unmanageable loans 🤣

then the BBC reporter



alright, well in 30 years when we are no long talking about european african colonization impacts and in 60 years when we are talking about the civil wars to toss out the chinese colonizers in africa, let's discuss how awesome the roads are to remind ourselves what was traded away by the known corrupt powers that be!

But if you think about it, it's potentially a net good for the people of Africa IMO, their shitty leaders have raped that country of it's resources for themselves since well forever, maybe some Chinese investment may fix some shit. In that future africa scenario, are we in the USA in any better of a position? Our country was sold out to oligarchs, other countries and private banks, our money isn't backed by anything and we are a debt ridden mess and evreyone hates each other (online). We basically have our military and need to be in forever wars to maintain the house of cards.

 

[evernoob]

The notion that China is leading a "free trade" bloc is beyond absurd.

• China
• Free Trade

lol

 

[Provience]

But if you think about it, it's potentially a net good for the people of Africa IMO, their shitty leaders have raped that country of it's resources for themselves since well forever, maybe some Chinese investment may fix some shit. In that future africa scenario, are we in the USA in any better of a position? Our country was sold out to oligarchs, other countries and private banks, our money isn't backed by anything and we are a debt ridden mess and evreyone hates each other (online). We basically have our military and need to be in forever wars to maintain the house of cards.

china has been funding chaos in Africa since the 1950's, the fact that today the Kenyan commentary was saying that Billions of $$ of chinese investment has had little to negligable impact on the average Kenyan, with roads being the only real example and the pricetag still being Billions, I don't see how it will be a net good.

chinese money is backed by less than our money, what is bad for us is horrible for others. the trump strategy of recalling our military and avoiding wars has merit and i strongly hope that biden doesn't go too far from it (though he surely will take us backwards in that regard). it isn't like we as a country benefit financially and greatly from AFG/Iraq/Syria when we could (and can be argued should) have raped them of natural resources in return for infrastructure.

when europeans "left" africa, they left productive and beneficial infrastructure. the russian and chinese funded and armed "3rd opposition" groups that also now include iranian and likely S.A. funded islam groups absolutely reigned hell and reintroduced famine and war on a scale that didn't exist under the europeans.

it's an odd spot for sure, but it seems that for several of these countries finally coming out of those tragedies, they are taking their decade or two of peace and getting ready to roll it into a decade of irresponsible free cash and the crash is going to be brutal.

 

[Provience]

its not "so" china could get the leg up. its because he was too stupid to see the play. they took advantage.

no.

the US negotiating directly with sovereign nations results in better terms for all parties involved. what china does or doesn't do has fuckall to do with trump. Even if the USA had signed an all out "free trade" deal with china directly, china would still do everything it could to dominate SE Asia while also dumping product into america. They really are capable of self-determination.

 

[SanDiegoCJ]

did you think china was just gona sit idle in the corner? trump put tariffs on them. then he pulled out of the TPP. its a perfect opportunity for them to get in where we pulled out. why wouldn't they? we would do it in a heart beat if the tables were turned.

Damn you're dumb. I said that the tariffs pissed off China. Please learn to read.

 

[Projectjunkie]

On Asians and tariffs, I've had a lingering thought.
We know China is patient, waiting a 100 years to do something is no big deal to them, when America is all about juicing this quarters numbers.

I don't recall the era or continent, but there was a king that wanted to conquer a neighboring kingdom. He sat with his advisors, they decided that he had the manpower and public support, but not the food stocks to feed the army for the duration of the war. So he married his son into a 3rd kingdom with rich rice fields. A decade later he had his war and was successful.

We point and laugh at China's failed one child policy, they aborted and adopted out their daughters to have their cherished sons. Now they have millions of wifeless and childless 20-35 year old men.

Was this a failed policy, or a tactical move to create an army? Millions of fighting age men, think about that for a minute.

Trump put tariffs on Chinese metal. As a consumer of finished products and raw steel, I liked that cheap steel. But, we got to that cheap steel by the Chinese government subsidizing steel producers operating at a loss. They operated at a loss long enough to kill American steel, idling plants, laying off workers, that market share was transferred overseas.

Now Trump comes in and puts tariffs on that steel in the name of American jobs. But what if he's really doing it because his administration is concerned about a hot war with China in the next 5 to 10 years? What are high level strategists talking about behind closed doors?

We won ww2 because of our manufacturing base, Ford's willow run bomber plant produced a B24 every 63 minutes.
Are we capable of that today?
If you had 5 years to prepare America for a ww2 type conflict, what steps would you take?
Would you state your intentions, or quietly shore up your defenses in the name of balancing trade and jobs?

People crying that we're gonna start a war with China because we're putting tariffs on their exports are not seeing the forest through the trees.

Just a lingering thought on things

 

[Slander]

On Asians and tariffs, I've had a lingering thought.
We know China is patient, waiting a 100 years to do something is no big deal to them, when America is all about juicing this quarters numbers.

I don't recall the era or continent, but there was a king that wanted to conquer a neighboring kingdom. He sat with his advisors, they decided that he had the manpower and public support, but not the food stocks to feed the army for the duration of the war. So he married his son into a 3rd kingdom with rich rice fields. A decade later he had his war and was successful.

We point and laugh at China's failed one child policy, they aborted and adopted out their daughters to have their cherished sons. Now they have millions of wifeless and childless 20-35 year old men.

Was this a failed policy, or a tactical move to create an army? Millions of fighting age men, think about that for a minute.

Trump put tariffs on Chinese metal. As a consumer of finished products and raw steel, I liked that cheap steel. But, we got to that cheap steel by the Chinese government subsidizing steel producers operating at a loss. They operated at a loss long enough to kill American steel, idling plants, laying off workers, that market share was transferred overseas.

Now Trump comes in and puts tariffs on that steel in the name of American jobs. But what if he's really doing it because his administration is concerned about a hot war with China in the next 5 to 10 years? What are high level strategists talking about behind closed doors?

We won ww2 because of our manufacturing base, Ford's willow run bomber plant produced a B24 every 63 minutes.
Are we capable of that today?
If you had 5 years to prepare America for a ww2 type conflict, what steps would you take?
Would you state your intentions, or quietly shore up your defenses in the name of balancing trade and jobs?

People crying that we're gonna start a war with China because we're putting tariffs on their exports are not seeing the forest through the trees.

Just a lingering thought on things

The issue is china could defeat us without ever shooting a bullet. They own most of our debt and make all our shit. I was hoping we would onshore more mfg after covid woke some people up, but with the corrupt uniparty empty vessels coming back into power that's not going to happen. Not that Trump did any good, but he at least attempted to fix the problem.

 

[Projectjunkie]

The issue is china could defeat us without ever shooting a bullet. They own most of our debt and make all our shit. I was hoping we would onshore more mfg after covid woke some people up, but with the corrupt uniparty empty vessels coming back into power that's not going to happen. Not that Trump did any good, but he at least attempted to fix the problem.

Well, I have a thought that a 2nd trump presidency would involve continuing onshoring and devaluing our currency, both of these moves weakening China.

FWIW I believe devaluing currency is stealing from savers and pensioners, but i do believe it is the only way to avoid collapse in an orderly fashion. In reality, the .gov could give grandma a decent COLA adjustment and tell China to suck it, and send them a hefty bag with a $trillion in fresh Trump/ Zimbabwe thru USPS and call it even

 

[Slander]

Well, I have a thought that a 2nd trump presidency would involve continuing onshoring and devaluing our currency, both of these moves weakening China.

FWIW I believe devaluing currency is stealing from savers and pensioners, but i do believe it is the only way to avoid collapse in an orderly fashion. In reality, the .gov could give grandma a decent COLA adjustment and tell China to suck it, and send them a hefty bag with a $trillion in fresh Trump/ Zimbabwe thru USPS and call it even

Man that sounds an awefull lot like currency manipulation!

It's either inflate the debt away, or default on it. Both options suck, thank you boomers for all you have done for your grandchildren and their children

 

[Provience]

On Asians and tariffs, I've had a lingering thought.
We know China is patient, waiting a 100 years to do something is no big deal to them, when America is all about juicing this quarters numbers.

I don't recall the era or continent, but there was a king that wanted to conquer a neighboring kingdom. He sat with his advisors, they decided that he had the manpower and public support, but not the food stocks to feed the army for the duration of the war. So he married his son into a 3rd kingdom with rich rice fields. A decade later he had his war and was successful.

We point and laugh at China's failed one child policy, they aborted and adopted out their daughters to have their cherished sons. Now they have millions of wifeless and childless 20-35 year old men.

Was this a failed policy, or a tactical move to create an army? Millions of fighting age men, think about that for a minute.

Trump put tariffs on Chinese metal. As a consumer of finished products and raw steel, I liked that cheap steel. But, we got to that cheap steel by the Chinese government subsidizing steel producers operating at a loss. They operated at a loss long enough to kill American steel, idling plants, laying off workers, that market share was transferred overseas.

Now Trump comes in and puts tariffs on that steel in the name of American jobs. But what if he's really doing it because his administration is concerned about a hot war with China in the next 5 to 10 years? What are high level strategists talking about behind closed doors?

We won ww2 because of our manufacturing base, Ford's willow run bomber plant produced a B24 every 63 minutes.
Are we capable of that today?
If you had 5 years to prepare America for a ww2 type conflict, what steps would you take?
Would you state your intentions, or quietly shore up your defenses in the name of balancing trade and jobs?

People crying that we're gonna start a war with China because we're putting tariffs on their exports are not seeing the forest through the trees.

Just a lingering thought on things

Chinese 1 child policy was their "kinder, gentler" solution to the great famines caused by collectivization. people may say china is less communist after 1970, but while they opened up land and capital privatization to help keep the death away, the collectivized the uterus to kill off people before they were people (well, we would call them people here in the USA) and forced sterilizations to limit themselves. They don't care if the PLA fights a battle and has 90% losses, human life has equal value as everything else. nothing. they have always had millions of fighting age men, they had little ability to sustain them though. as for the resultant glut of men over women, it is a bit comical that communism seeks female liberation, but chinese culture has been able to hold on to the remnants of patriarchy in their own chinese sense that the first born son is the only real person who exists. the culling of girls wasn't so much a stated policy as the policy was "cull babies" and the people said "if i must cull babies, i will cull girls". no amount of forcing women to work as men or destroying typical family structure could break that notion.

for 80 years the USA has been concerned about a hot war with china and the deterrence is likely why the explicit trump policy has been "disengage from foreign wars, build and improve on a robust national defense"

a shooting war with china IN china would be horrendous. a shooting war with china IN the USA mainland is outside of chinese grasp, but would be very bad. Yes, i think the USA could respond and respond well to a chinese hot war.

all that damn anti-fracking anti-oil bullshit would be right out the window though