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MUA5 to C223 for offroad

IowaOffRoad

IowaOffRoad

King shit of turd island
BRC
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Member Number
3513
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Under the apple tree
Thought the Isuzu page was light on posts. I have all the parts collected to do this, except the transmission is in my DD :rolleyes: so I can't put them side by side.

I've seen this on some of the Isuzu specific sites, but has anyone here done it? Supposedly you can cut the starter ear off and weld it to the other side, the bolt pattern is the same. Who's go the experience? If anyone has done this, how does it hold up? Is there a better way?
 
I have heard the mua5 bolts up to the 1.8 Isuzu Chevette diesel engine but nobody will confirm it. They just say their cousins uncledads great grandmas friends neighbor catty corner to them did it and it bolts right up like factory. Ive just found a factory 5spd and am putting it in a Suzuki SJ410 anyways so its already got a divorced case so a 2wd trans is fine for what I got.

From what Ive heard the only thing that bolts up directly to a c223 is the 4spd4x4 built in tcase or the 2wd 5spd that came behind them.

If it was as simple as doing what you say it would be worth a try for that. It would be easier than finding the correct flywheel pressure plate , starter and building and adapter plate for a Toyota trans.
 
KungFooMASTA said:
I have heard the mua5 bolts up to the 1.8 Isuzu Chevette diesel engine but nobody will confirm it. They just say their cousins uncledads great grandmas friends neighbor catty corner to them did it and it bolts right up like factory. Ive just found a factory 5spd and am putting it in a Suzuki SJ410 anyways so its already got a divorced case so a 2wd trans is fine for what I got.

From what Ive heard the only thing that bolts up directly to a c223 is the 4spd4x4 built in tcase or the 2wd 5spd that came behind them.

If it was as simple as doing what you say it would be worth a try for that. It would be easier than finding the correct flywheel pressure plate , starter and building and adapter plate for a Toyota trans.
Click to expand...
I do know that after '82 you could get the c223 and c223t with the 5spd in 4x4 as I have seen a few, mostly in troopers. I get you with the hearsay, I've read/heard many things from many people who have never done it. I did read one thread on planetisuzoo (if I remember it correctly) where a guy had pictures of an MU5 he had cut the starter bump off the passenger side of the gas bellhousing and welded it in on the drivers side like the diesel and had it bolted up to a c223. But it's one guy, once, and I haven't seen it since.
If I can locate a spare MU5, I'm doing it (or attempting it) and will document it here. Pity about all the Isuzus here in the rust belt have been scrapped already.
 
In order to bolt up an MUA5 to a C223 you need the front half of thr transmission that came behind that engine. The front half is basically the diesel bell housing & the front case half of the tranny. A 4 speed IIRC. The MUA5 and the earlier 86 trannys use the same gear box configuration. Just different bell housings cast on them. And yes they are interchangeable. I have 2 of them. Both bolted to MUA5 thransmissions. I run the diesel flywheel and Gasser clutch plate.
I have a picture of one of them on another computer if you'd like to see one.

The MUA5 also came with the bolt pattern for a 2.8 & 3.2 GM front wheel drive engines. Early Cameroes used the 3.2 motors BTY! And the rare Pontiac 3.8L motor. But that's another whole can of worms to open. I've got one of those trannys as well. Shame the 4.3 won't bolt up to it.
All bolt in.
But if I had my choice I'd like to be able to bolt an MUA5 to the back of a Toyota 4L like is in my wifes 4 Runner. We can't kill that motor and it's a hoss when it comes to pullinmg stuff.
 
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SSSRodeo said:
In order to bolt up an MUA5 to a C223 you need the front half of thr transmission that came behind that engine. The front half is basically the diesel bell housing & the front case half of the tranny. A 4 speed IIRC. The MUA5 and the earlier 86 trannys use the same gear box configuration. Just different bell housings cast on them. And yes they are interchangeable. I have 2 of them. Both bolted to MUA5 thransmissions. I run the diesel flywheel and Gasser clutch plate.
I have a picture of one of them on another computer if you'd like to see one.

The MUA5 also came with the bolt pattern for a 2.8 & 3.2 GM front wheel drive engines. Early Cmeroes used the 3.2 motors BTY! And the rare Pontiac 3.8L motor. But that's another whole can of worms to open. I've got one of those trannys as well. Shame the 4.3 won't bolt up to it.

But if I had my choice I'd like to be able to bolt an MUA5 to the back of a Toyota 4L like is in my wifes 4 Runner. We can't kill that motor and it's a hoss when it comes to pullinmg stuff.
Click to expand...
I have multiples of the MSG transmission front case/integral bellhousings. I had no idea that the MUA5 was so similar that you could use that case to adapt it. I know between the gas and diesel cases the front bearing size changed on the MSG depending on year, are there similar differences between the MSG and the MUA?
I was under the impression that the MUA was a slightly stronger transmission than the MSG. If the front case sections can be swapped, what exactly did they change? I've gotten way too good at pulling down all the MSG's I've had over the years in DD vehicles and building franken transmissions out of 2 or three depending on what failed. Trying to avoid this when swapping a diesel into my '95 Isuzu. It's got 200k on the original trans now and it still shifts great and doesn't make noise. I've had the old MSGs make noise when they had 135k on them.
 
SSSRodeo said:
In order to bolt up an MUA5 to a C223 you need the front half of thr transmission that came behind that engine. The front half is basically the diesel bell housing & the front case half of the tranny. A 4 speed IIRC. The MUA5 and the earlier 86 trannys use the same gear box configuration. Just different bell housings cast on them. And yes they are interchangeable. I have 2 of them. Both bolted to MUA5 thransmissions. I run the diesel flywheel and Gasser clutch plate.
I have a picture of one of them on another computer if you'd like to see one.

The MUA5 also came with the bolt pattern for a 2.8 & 3.2 GM front wheel drive engines. Early Cameroes used the 3.2 motors BTY! And the rare Pontiac 3.8L motor. But that's another whole can of worms to open. I've got one of those trannys as well. Shame the 4.3 won't bolt up to it.
All bolt in.
But if I had my choice I'd like to be able to bolt an MUA5 to the back of a Toyota 4L like is in my wifes 4 Runner. We can't kill that motor and it's a hoss when it comes to pullinmg stuff.
Click to expand...
Yeah make with the pics!
 
Been fighting some health issues and hadn't checked in here in a while. (All good,, mostly, now)

So stand by and I'll make it my mission today to get you the pictures of the bell housings of both the MUA5 and the C223 transmission bell part you need to mate the MUA5 to the Diesel.
I have a brand new in the crate MUA5 Tranmission that Jerry and I installed the 4:07 Tera Lows in before I had to deal with cancer. And I have a new C223 front transmission case half that has the C223 Bell housing on it.
I havea C223 engine and my plan is to install it in my 86 2 door Trooper. But I am still trying to get my hands on a 3.0L Turbo Diesel motor for it instead.
 
Ok, finally got them. It's 125 degrees in the top of my shop and all my transmissions were in Factory Crates, so I had to take the crates down get the pictures of them. I'm located in North Texas.....
So here we go. First up is my new MUA5 with a flanged rear output and it has Tera Lows in the T case. Zero Miles on this transmission. Can't remember where we got the flanged tailshaft, but I think it was off a loter model 2 wheel drive tranny.
I'll verify if anyone needs to know. And if you're curous the Troopers used a divorced T case that would be real easy to bolt up as a second t case off an early MUA that had the bolt on front output.
And yeah, I've 2 of those also. But they are still in the trucks (86 Troopers) and it's too muddy to get under there to get some shots of them...
 

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Next up is another MUA5 with a better view of the front, but this one has a slip rear output. This one has about 70K miles on it.
 

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And for good measure this set of pictures is of a MUA5 that has the GM beell housing front case for a 2.8L or 3.4L V6 engine.
Notice the destinctive GM 2 bolt top flange of the housing. This bell housing will also bolt up to the 60 degree front wheel drive engines that GM built years ago. Including the Buick/ Pontiac 3800 FE V6.
 

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As for cutting off the starter flange and welding it to the other side.... I guess you could do that, but in Africa they do a LOT of engine adaptations by just cutting off the bell housing of the engine they want to use and cutting away the bellhousing of the transmission they want to mate it to and welding the engine pattern to the transmission housing and just filling in the spaces where gaps are. The Ford Cortina is a popular engine swap I hear. I'm told they will bolt that engine in almost anything. Live the old VW bisses with the ford engines.

I can see the Isuzu bells welded this way pretty easy if you have them.
Hope these pictures help you. And is I can shoot some closeup to you I'll be happy too.

JSYK when I was building one off racing cars I used to take a 3/8th" aluminum and drill one side for the engine and the other side for the transmission. All base off the center point of the crankshaft. That was done by turning a pointed pin to indent the center off the plate off the flywheel and then drill out the pilot shaft hole for the transmission. Then it was just a matter of getting a input shaft that was long enough to hold the clutch plate. Getting the starter adapted was the hardst part and I fixed this by welding on a tab to the starter housing to orientent the starter to the slywheel. Honda motors turned the opposite rotation from a Porche.

I ran a 1974 Honda 1200cc crossflow head engine, bolted to a Porche transmission. The engine was mounted 90- degrees from
normal, the the transmission was mounted 180 degrees from normal. With the ring and pinion swopped oover to the the other side. This made a really well balanced mid engine racecar. I drove from the right seat, because I could build a really nice rod shifter to the rear of the transmission that never needed adjusting, the way the cable shifter did.
A hoot to drive!
 
Oh and also a little more information since you are talking about swapping transmissions.

I have a 93 Rodeo that is running a Isuzu 3.2L V6 with a Toyota Tacoma 5 speed transmission and 2 toyota pickup transfer cases. (2:28 & 4:07) (Isuzu AX5 Bellhousing with shortened Toyota inputshaft and nose cone) A Marlin Crawler creation.
I believe he actually built and sold about 12 of those set ups for us Isuzu guys in the early 2000's. We met at Loon Lake on August 8th 2001 so he could look at my build. He was happy to see it fit under the truck so well. (We laid under my truck for about 15 minutes while I showed him how I stuiffed that long transmission under it. )

Jesse @ High Angle Drivelines made my custom long slip driveshafts. I can run wither DS on either differential, they are that close in length.
I'm running a stock Rodeo flywheel with a Ford Mustang 5.0 L clutch and pressure plate.

So yeah, you can adapt darn near anything given enough time, talent and money!

And to brag a little more on the Rodeo build.
It also has an early Toyota Straight axle under the front with all of Marlins cryo hardened Birffs and axles.
The rear end is a heavily modified Isuzu Dana 44 with full floating axles. I have manual hubs on all 4 corners of the truck so I can flat tow it behind my RV like a trailer without turning the ARB equipped diffs or Toy transmissions.

So now you know where the SSSRodeo came from. Super Silly Slow Rodeo.
And yes I still drive it, quite a lot actually because the AC will freeze you out. (Texas remember?)
 

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I just realized that what we need as a front end shot of all the bell housing bolt patterns so we can compare the diesel, and both gas bell housing differences. I'll get out there later, after it cools off, and get some straight on shots to make the comparison easier. And I'll stick a ruler up to them, so we can compare. Later when I get to that point, I'll shoot shots of the different backsides oof the engines too. I have 2- C223 motors (maybe a 3rd) and several 2.3L, 2.6L and 3.2 motors. And about to go after a 3.5 drivetrain for the wifes 89 Trooper.
 
Glad to see you are still around. Remember yours and Randy's posts from 4x4wire back in the day. Dan (Houlster) as well.

Had a 97 Rodeo with Wagoneer spring under swapped D44. It was a fun vehicle, should have hung onto it, but the life goes on.
 
Not sure if Corbin, Michael Woods or Randy are still running their Marlin equipped Amigos. I may be the only one who still owns and runs mine. But mine being a Rodeo may be the reason why I still have mine. It's can still be a useful daily driver.
Headed up to Colorado next month with mine to play with my Grandkids.

I think Marlin set up 6 or 7 toy transmission to run behind the Isuzu engines. My 3.2 is still running like a Swiss watch.
 
Fantastic. Well it’s folks like you and some of the old school Zu dudes that have inspired the rest of us and now to some folks I’m considered an older Zu head.
I’m up to my eyeballs in a 14 bolt swap project with hydroboost and hydro assist gonna post up some gremlins I’m working through.
 
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