Moon Patrol Buggy Build

[YeeP]

My goals for the build
While not always wise to attempt to build a "Swiss army knife", I do want several things out of this buggy.

• Technical Crawler
• Comfortable at "speed" between obstacles (not a kidney slammer)
• Comfortable at steep angles (lowest CG I can make happen)
• Reasonably light (my CJ was pushing 5K)
  • My realistic goal would be under 4K before water
  • My unrealistic goal would be closer to 3K
• Easy to work on/maintain
• Some amenities that may cost me weight, but can help guarantee my wife will enjoy herself
• Drivetrain I can abuse where I would normally let off the go pedal in my CJ (I still wont be hammering on it)
• Some cool tech
  • DIY Infotainment system in the center console
  • DIY digital dash tied into ECM and several other locations
• Good looking/functional interior
  • Currently hoping to use some air chassis style rivets along with aluminum
  • Can be sprayed out with high pressure car wash hose
  • Seats easily removable as well as floor for working on stuff
• Templated body panels for easy replacement
  • Design my own radius brake for remaking my hood after rollovers
• GPW grille up front if possible

Whenever I run into a problem where a decision needs to be made, my order of importance goes something like this:

1. Functionality (Always thinking, 'will this help me on the trail?')
2. Easy to work on
3. Self Sustainability (Can I fix this in the future without needing a custom part built)
4. Form (I want to have something I think looks good, but I never make a decision based on this first)

The buggy will be used for technical crawling, but I am not going to do things that I see others that I wheel with like setting up 3 inches of up travel and bouncing off of the bumpstops all day. Fuck that. I also am going to include some stuff that I don't see on other builds, based on my technical expertise, and quite honestly, influence by car builds that I watch on youtube. I hope to include some software and hardware design and building on this thread. That my bore some people, sorry about that, these are the things that I am into and excited about. I'll try to keep a balance of my update 'types'.

I also really want to learn how to TIG. I am pretty good at MIG (IMO) and will use it when I am worried about safety.

Buy a chassis vs build
I really wanted to build a chassis. I have experience in tube bending and roll cage building. At this stage of my life, I make a little more money than I did when I needed to build every little piece on my CJ. I got a teenager and a kid in college right now. If I can save a little time buying a chassis and modifying it, I think I will end up ahead of the game. I don't want this to take a decade.


Pace of the build
Not pointing fingers here, but I ain't sitting on a pot of gold. I don't own my own construction company (damn those guys seem to be able to have a lot of toys). I'm a software engineer, I'm a Dad with a kid in college. You can bet your ass that none of the things you see me purchasing was done on credit. I'm not judging anyone for doing that on their own, but at the end of the build, I am not going to be sitting on a mountain of debt. So, expect gaps in time between updates. I need time to save back up after big purchases. At the beginning of my posts, the pace will move quickly, as I have two years of pictures and decisions to cover. That will change. I will make a post that shows I am up to date with my progress and link it back here.

My build vs other builds I see on Irate
I don't have a plasma table, I do have friends that do and am teaching myself how to use CAD right now. I'm not a machinist, but I do my best to be accurate. This is a hobby for me, and I do the best I can with what I have. That being side I strive to improve my skills whenever possible and would really appreciate any comments or suggestions on how I can improve if you see the opportunity.

Why the hell do I build so many tools?
Honestly, after two years at it, I feel like a lot of my time has been spent building tools.

Doing stuff the best I can is going to be paramount to required time to completion. If I know I can do a better job on something if I had a better tool for it, I will work to build the tool.

As I am usually a one man team in my garage, I need to build a lot of tools to help me complete tasks. In addition, I need to make sure that in the future, I can replicate what I did before without having to start from scratch. Expect to see me coming up with ways to ensure I can produce the best product possible. My way may not be better than yours, but it was the best thing I could come up with at the time.


Still excited about it? Im sure I made it sound boring, but... I feel better laying it all out.


All caught up with real time!
OK, upcoming posts are now caught up with me on the project starting here:

Moon Patrol Buggy Build

are we up to date like working issues in real time now or still flashing back. i love the thread regardless, just want to make sure i am following along correctly. :beer:

irate4x4.com

 

[YeeP]

Chassis:
These are the pictures I got from the add on FB.

View attachment 599756 View attachment 599757

Why this chassis?
I really like rock bouncers. I like the attitude, I like the cool cage designs. I really like the A and B pillars on the chassis. That is what caught my eye. There are some things I don't like about it, but that is what you have to deal with when you go this route. It is wider than I wanted it to be (59" and B pillar). However, I have ridden in my buddies 48" wide buggy, and bumping shoulders with someone all day reminds me of being in some tight airplane seat and hating it. So... whatever, Ill be more comfortable, I'm good with that.

Where I got it
The chassis, when I found it, was in Kansas City, MO. It was at a shop called KMC, the guy builds air bumps, you may have seen him on FB with them.

History I was told
The shop owner where the chassis was at told me a guy in Iowa built it. That is honestly all I know. I can tell you this, whoever built it really did take their time making it square and symmetric. It has continued to impress me as I move forward and get to points where I need to take some serious measurements to confirm everything is correct and symmetric.

Bringing it home

Came with its' own dolly! I was pretty excited about that.

This is December 2020, the height of the COVID scare!! Signs about wearing a mask everywhere... My good buddy who has logged the 2nd most hours on the chassis with me rode to KC to pick it up. We couldn't have a get away weekend without staying in a casino...

I hope this is the only time you see me wearing a fawking mask. I slept like shit that night, got up at least four times to go look out the window at my truck with the chassis behind it.

 

[YeeP]

My buddy let me use his chassis table he built, which was great because of the ever increasing cost of steel. When I got the chassis home, I wasn't real sure how I wanted to connect the two. So for some temporary surface rust removal, I tried several not-so-safe methods...

Honestly not the best welds, but who am I to judge?

After several hours with a wire wheel...

Several, several more hours with a wire wheel.....

All in all I saw some stuff I wanted to change/improve on, but my goal at this point was to not make a lot of changes, if possible. Really just an effort to make myself feel better about throwing down a chunk of cash.... . Sometimes, new ideas overcome old ones.

 

[YeeP]

I would like to introduce my J35A4. Pulled from a 175K mile 2004 Honda Odyssey...

Why this engine? Well, when I built my CJ the third time (back half), I decided that I needed myself a V8. At the time (1998 ish) any red blooded CJ enthusiast should live and breathe AMC (at least thats what I thought). I spent hundreds of hours and every dime I could save to build a 401. TBI, with a DUI modified for ECM ignition advance. All the Bull tear I could get. All the oil mods.. Balanced crank, all that. I could never overpass the crappy oil pickup design, and didn't think to baffle the pan. Every time I would get pretty far off camber, you could just watch the oil pressure dive. I don't want to worry about that any more.

So how can I not worry about that anymore? Well, I heard from multiple sources that this engine, especially when combined with a baffled pickup can hang out basically on its side and run for "minutes" before the idiot light comes on. Its also light weight, and when new they say it can get close to 300HP. A couple of my buddies that have buggies are running lighter V6s, and honestly for the stuff I do, it should have plenty of power.

Also, if I blow it up, I just need to go find a 2002-2004 Honda Pilot or Odyssey and swap everything over, re-adjust valves all that. I really want to try and hold myself to not building some super built engine that I cant abuse. I guess time will tell.


Some love was of course, expected....

The good thing was, I wasn't finding metal flakes in the sludge.

I took apart the whole intake, and valve covers. Re-adjusted the valves, and drilled out a center location for the PCV on the left bank valve cover. Also installed a new timing belt, water pump, timing belt tensioner. I replaced most of the sensors as well. She also got new plugs, new coil packs and new injectors.

Spent a good amount of time trying to find this bad boy (if you know, you know).

Which of course was sitting in a snowy field with years of crap on it. Rebuild expected.


At this point of the build, the idea was to build off of used parts, setup my own R&P, all that jazz. So, in-come two 05+ SD 60s, and a 14 bolt.

 

[YeeP]

Went to work on removing parts that I only needed and parts I didn't need on the front SD 60. I chose the housing with what felt like a lot easier of a pinion to remove as the donor for the Inner-Cs.


Another good buddy of mine here, that I used to wrench with professionally helping me with the dirty work. He also has clocked a higher amount of hours on the build and is the guy I call when big decisions need to be made.

As a member of the 1990s "pay anything for a king pin" crew. I have to say seeing this just felt wrong. But, the price was right for the housings. I paid $275 a piece from the junk yard. Sold each pair of shafts for $100 a few months later. Not too bad.

I got a connection that would turn down the tube inside the Inner-C to my specified diameter. He asked me to leave some tube on there. I wasnt sure how much he would need, hence me slicing into the casing on the short side.


Finally drug my son out into the garage. Figured, let teach him how to cut metal with fire cause that is cool.

He did pretty good, but I definitely had some hours ahead with the 7" grinder.

I promptly sandblasted the 14 Bolt, all SD knuckles and a couple other random parts to save some time with the wire wheel. The Harbor freight sand blaster I was using literally had an effective area of about the size of a pencil eraser. I was using one of those full face plastic face coverings. Which I learned will last about 1.5 hours until you cannot see through it anymore. So I was replacing them "often"...

This pic is good for those that are looking for these axles. The knuckle on the left is from a 2010 F350, the one on the right is from a 2008 F250. They say the earlier one has a little more meat on them internally which I can confirm. Also, the weld on type steering setup will differ between them. I found out the hard way that the JHF weld on brackets leave about a finger width between the top and the knuckle on the 2010. No-bueno. Im sure Ill get beat up for that comment, but I'm cool with that.

My "done grinding" pic... Cold ass middle of winter here in CO also...

 

[YeeP]

So now shit was starting to get "real". I got my CJ which I love, but it is also part of the reason I am doing this build. So with a heavy heart, I decided to use it to fund my project. This post is to forever remember "Rubber Duck" (Named that in 1997.... To anyone that decides to make some kinda "getting ducked" reference).

The day I completed my first spring over. Built it in my Dad's garage coming home from school on the weekends. 1998. Those are 33s as I could not afford tires.

After my back half project years later...

Little OG Pirate salute reference there...

 

[YeeP]

So, here are some of the things my beloved CJ provided for me.

Been wanting to learn how to TIG, and planning on being able to TIG aluminum and steel, so I needed a multi-process welder that had AC/DC capability. The Miller and the ESAB were the two that I wanted to consider at the time. All that time watching Ian on Extreme4x4 influenced me I think.

I literally had no scrap steel to practice on, so I decided to watch 2 youtube videos and run a bead on my borrowed chassis table. Nothing to rest my arms on, but WTF, I know how to MIG. I wasn't sure which hand to use for the filler. No problem!

So, I decided to "spend" the little wood token they gave me for a welding class on TIG. Paid for my son to join me. Here he is with his brand new welding had I got him! He is left handed btw for those that noticed he too has the filler in his right hand.

I found a guy on FB that laser cut fixture tables right before the huge price increase in steel. I didn't know that was coming and still wasn't thrilled about what it cost me.

Snuck in a little TIG practice where I could hide it. Its not weld porn, but should hold.

 

[YeeP]

So, at this time of the project, I knew I needed to get the chassis welded to the table so I could take advantage of being able to make consistent, reliable measurements. This is where I decided to go with what makes sense to me, most likely could also be because of my in experience in building a buggy. Either way, I think it has worked out.

Suspension design decisions and ride height
I decided that I wanted to build the suspension at ride height. This would mean that it would sit slightly higher off the table than what I had seen my friend build his buggy at, but it also wasn't a bad thing because its at a height which is comfortable to stand at and work at. So after some posting probably on here and FB, I came up with what I thought was an achievable belly height of 17". Its not as low as I had hoped to go, but my CJ was just over 24" so this is a lot lower than I am used to. Conveniently, that puts the top of the cage at exactly 6 feet. My friend with the most experience that I could talk to thought that I should build at full stuff, which I think most experienced guys do. I did not feel comfortable not being able to base my decisions on calculations I could make that were related to ride height. So, I needed to make stands that would hold it at a position where I could get underneath to tack weld stuff, and I would have the proper room to have the axles mounted. With some rough estimates based on talking to people with brand new 42s and 43s, I estimated a static loaded radius (with the tires aired down) to be approximately 19". So center of the axle would be above the bottom of the chassis. This is new territory for me for sure.


Chassis mount design

I can be pretty meticulous when something I am working on will affect everything else I care about in the project. I took a lot of time to get the table (which has adjustable feet) leveled out in my garage.

Knowing that I will be moving stuff on and off the table, there is always a chance that it could move slightly, so I needed some references of where it sits in the garage when it is level. A starting point if you will. I took some rough measurements that I cold reference later just in case.

Still worried that I might make a mistake trying to build at this height, I decided to make mounts that I could adjust the chassis height in, just in case. A keen eye might notice a different fab table and a lift in some of these pics. This is my Dad's garage. At this point in the project I do not own a drill press, so for holes that I absolutely wanted to be square, I ended up over here to make it happen.

The center sections are 2" square, .250 wall. The outer 2.53" square, .238 wall (My steel supply place calls it "trailer stock")

I wanted a way to confirm everything was square and tight, so I built in a little adjustability.

Since I still had the chassis on jack stands, higher than I wanted it to sit, I took advantage of this. I tacked the mounts to the chassis side first, with the adjusters as equally adjusted as possible (same exposed thread count), then confirmed that I could get the top half exactly where I wanted it. I could always grind the bottom mount if I could achieve what I needed there.

I decided I would rather have the front of the buggy facing the garage door instead of my toolbox, as I could provide myself more room on that side to work. So I turned it around.

I felt good with the position of the chassis. Im sure there are better ways of doing this, but it was what I came up. I am confident that at least by the tools I have in my garage, that the stands do not negatively affect the chassis position for measurement purposes later down the road.

Let the festivities begin!

 

[YeeP]

Little out of order here guys as far as the timeline, but I also picked up an atlas 2, 4.3:1 with the money from selling the CJ. It took 17 weeks from the time I ordered it till it arrived.

I lined the bottom with cardboard and built a little protection in..

The t-case will be outfitted with 1410 standard yokes (forged from Busted knuckle).


Also... Decisions were made......
I started going down the path of what it would take to make a strong steerable 14 bolt. I'm sure everyone will have a differing opinion here, but this is how it went for me. I have seen 14 bolts turn the tube inside the housing. Also, the tube thickness on the factory housing is not as thick as I wanted. I spoke with Busted Knuckle as well as Travis Rhodes who was building some sweet 14 bolts at the time. The consensus was that I should press in new tubes to make it right. The added weight of the diff, plus the ticker tubes made the 14 bolt housing heavier than a aftermarket 9 with an empty 3rd member. Also it was going to cost me more to get the 14 bolt to a starting point than what I could get a brand new 9" housing for.

So I sold the 14 bolt for exactly what I paid for it (with a stupid amount of labor thrown in free!) and I acquired a set of Trailgear 9" housings, 3.5" tube .375" wall.

 

[chaplinfj60]

go for it.

i like the idea so far.
thanks for sharing

 

[SMI17]

I think I remember hearing about this chassis being built. Couldn't tell you his name off the top of my head but wheeled with him a few times years ago here in Iowa.

 

[Sterlingfire]

Very cool!

 

[Austin]

Loved that game as a kid, looking forward to watching it come together

 

[YeeP]

I think I remember hearing about this chassis being built. Couldn't tell you his name off the top of my head but wheeled with him a few times years ago here in Iowa.

I would be real interested in getting any information you might have!

 

[Winchested]

Cool build! But on the "credit" thing... You can't take nothing with you to the grave. So you might as well have some fun while your here. My philosophy, I've got 20+ more working years, I'm gong to have fucking fun while I'm doing it and raising my kids. (12 and 15) they can pay for it when I'm gone haha.

 

[YeeP]

Cool build! But on the "credit" thing... You can't take nothing with you to the grave. So you might as well have some fun while your here. My philosophy, I've got 20+ more working years, I'm gong to have fucking fun while I'm doing it and raising my kids. (12 and 15) they can pay for it when I'm gone haha.

LMAO, all true man. I can't make that happen here. Wish it didn't bother me so bad, I could be done a lot sooner. On the positive though, I feel like maybe I'll be able to ride this inflation wave into a recession and prices will come back to "normal".

To your point though, both of my kids got to drive my CJ off road after I finished it the third time. Had to wait till my career progressed to start this one. I wish I would have had more time to have fun with them wheeling when they were little....

 

[Winchested]

LMAO, all true man. I can't make that happen here. Wish it didn't bother me so bad, I could be done a lot sooner. On the positive though, I feel like maybe I'll be able to ride this inflation wave into a recession and prices will come back to "normal".

To your point though, both of my kids got to drive my CJ off road after I finished it the third time. Had to wait till my career progressed to start this one. I wish I would have had more time to have fun with them wheeling when they were little....

Love it. Do what ya can! Keeps Ya honest.

My wife just said to me couple days ago our mortgage.would be paid off if it wasn't for my rig haha.

 

[WaterH]

Sub’d

 

[SMI17]

I would be real interested in getting any information you might have!

I'm sorry that's all I got and it could be wrong.

 

[YeeP]

Alright ya'll. I spent about an hour this morning updating the spaces I had left. I need to spend some time working on what generates the $$. I will continue to update as I have time. Please let me know if you think I should explain something more thoroughly as I am trying to both move quickly through the set of pics I have, but also take time to explain stuff.

Thanks for the interest, I have been wanting to have a build thread on Pirate since I started reading them there in 1997. I still see a lot of the OG people here and this feels more like what Pirate used to for me. I have been nervous that my work isn't the caliber of what I see here, but to be honest, I need to be ok with that. I am willing to put time and money into myself as you will see to try and improve my processes. Just like any project, when you finish you see ten things you wish you had done differently if you knew then what you know now. Just going through these pictures has reminded me of that. It's been fun to remind myself of what I was doing two years ago on this.

 

[jhama78]

Sub'd for updates

 

[LunchBoxFab]

great start.

 

[YeeP]

Tools Update

Tube Bender
JD2 Model 3 my Dad and I bought years ago had already been outfitted with Swag air over hydro, as well as the digital angle finder. My cage for the CJ was all built with 1.5" .120 wall DOM (I chose it because it was a tighter CLR), but this chassis is 1.75" .120" and 1.75" .188.
Foreshadowing: how do I know the thickness of the chassis?
So I borrowed a good buddy of mine's 1.75" die and shoe set and updated it to be able to use the angle finder from swag

A problem I ran into with the centering pin. I remember having issues when I first got the digital angle finder setup from swag, and the recommended putting a flat spot and/or drilling a spot in the rod for the bolt that holes the die to find a location. That worked great for my one and only die. If you think about it, that is centered for a die that is shorter (1.5" tube vs 1.75" tube). The dykem blue you see here indicates the new center height of the 1.75" die. So As soon as I started to put pressure into bending a tube, I was getting erratic measurements. I had to purchase a new center pin from swag, and I decided to not do this again. If you run into this problem, I recommend tossing the allen head bolt the swag kit comes with, got to a grade 8 bolt and tighten it more than you think you should. I haven't had this problem since.

I was sick and tired of moving the damn tube bender around and having to bolt it to the ground in my Dad's shop. My shop is much smaller and I need the ability to move everything back into its' little tertris puzzle location when not working. After some google searches for ideas I ienvitably ended up back on some OG pirate threads. Decided to purchase some wheels for this bad boy. The Advanced Auto special was in stock that day.

The rotation pin was sloppy as hell. Homey don't play that, so I made some more "adjusters". Didn't want to take away from it being able to be used to hold an engine, so I put them out of the way.

Not quite sure I needed the plate to be 3/8" but I was matching what was on the engine stand.

The engine stand was at a slight upward angle, so I had to decide where to compensate. I decided to keep the side on the stand perpendicular for no reason other than I didn't have to address the issue immediately.

The height was chosen to make it so I could rest long tubes on my fixture table if needed.

Ready for service

 

[YeeP]

Tool Update

Fixture Table
The table clams you can get that are specifically made for fixture tables are pretty expensive. I decided to start with making my own. I started with some of these Jorgensen 24 inch clamps.

This is the best pic I can find of when I made them, but I just cut the one end off and welded some 5/8" rod to the end at approximately 7 degrees toward the adjustable part of the clamp. This was in an effort to make the clamp "level out" when I applied pressure down rather than rock backward away from the work piece.

Vise
We all need a vise right? In my typical fashion, I researched the ideal height for a vise. As you may know, the answer is always "it depends". It depends on what you are working on. For heavy work, just like a work bench, you want it lower. For light, fine work, higher. So obviously, I had to make it adjustable. The reason I chose this fixture table is it has the ability to add stuff on it. My problem is always getting crap out of the way so the garage can be used by the home boss. So, why not build the fixture table into more of a "mobile work station"?


Picked up a couple of the fireball tool squares. Cant recommend them enough, even if you don't have a fixture table.

Not the greatest weld on the left but meh, its a tool

For the actual vise mount, I didn't like the idea of the outer ring only being welded on the surface, but didn't have room to put a bolt in. So I got some 9/16" rod, and "pinned" together the top and bottom with some rosette welds. Then I welded them together later, which I cannot find a pic of. I also sleeved the bolt holes in the corners for where the bolts come through into the vise. You can see the top welds of said sleeves Just trying to make it able to take a beating.

After using this for a couple years I can say it has done well. There are a couple scenarios where I wished I had extended the vise mount a little father away from the downward tubes so I could rotate the vise 180 degrees while in the lowest position. However, with the vise mounted to the table in this position, I can easily just walk around it. The welds that look not great are me trying to force myself to TIG. I did end up getting frustrated at some point with how long it was taking to TIG everything, and switch to MIG.

Belt Grinder
I picked up a belt grinder from Jet, and promptly built a mount for the table. Later on I would realize that blowing the grinding dust onto your work piece is not advantageous....

 

[YeeP]

Working with the J35
I was in new territory as far as my knowledge level on this engine, and its harness. I decided to spend some money and lean on others that had worked on the transplant to help me make it happen. Marked Motorsports is a good resource for this engine. I purchased several engine add-ons/modifications from Marked Motorsports for the engine. Jake, the owner, is a solid guy and has had many conversations with me on the phone. I spent about 10 times the cost of the engine from the junk yard on a harness & ecm, EGR delete, trans adapter and starter, recommended torque converter, oil filter remote kit and power steering pump adapter/belt tensioner.

I ran into some issues understand how stuff worked because I didn't pull this engine from the car. The assholes at the junk yard had already removed everything EGR and thermostat housing related and I was not aware of how the cooling system worked. I'm sure I annoyed the hell out of Jake as I was looking at parts like 'where the hell does this go'. The power steering pump adapter I could have easily made myself, especially after I saw it, but it saved me time and I'm happy to spend money with someone who will answer questions and not make me feel like a dumbshit in the process.

Wiring Harness
I must have gotten one of the last wiring harnesses they sold, because a couple months after I received it, he dropped a bomb with lots of name dropping on their site: Honda V6 Stand Alone Engine Harness NO LONGER AVAILABLE! [spwire36] - $899.99 : Marked Motorsports, Team Website

Not taking a dig at him with this, but I was a little glad to read what he said, as I knew this was not his handy work and there are some things about the harness I wasn't thrilled with. But, I have a factory harness and ECM, and the time will come to deal with it later.

First harness test fit. I'll dive into my thoughts on it later when I actually get time to play with it. At the very least, I am going to de-loom it, eliminate the unused plugs, and replace a couple of the junk yard quality plugs. On a plus, it plugged right into the engine like it should without issue.

EGR Delete
The factory Honda engine has a little tube that runs from front to back inside the valley, and it connects to a "block" which also attaches to where the blue circles are (water jacket access at the back of the heads). This 'juncture' also connects to the left side head where the red circles are. The red circles are where the exhaust gas comes out (far left) then goes back into the head on its way to the intake. When you do an EGR delete on this engine, you have to come up with a system to circulate the coolant, decide if you want to run a thermostat (also another part of the factory juncture), and block off the exhaust port on the back of the head. You also have to make a new home for these temp sensors in my hand. I spent a lot of time trying to understand this system, hope this information can help someone in the future. Something I'll address later, but Jake at Marked told me not to run a thermostat, that it's not needed. I do plan on trying to outfit a heater for my passenger to enjoy, so I am thinking I need to come up with a system for the thermostat, which inevitably means I need to design a coolant bypass and an alternate route for the coolant to get to the heater core.

You can see the adapter here ^^ that is also from Marked Motorsports for a TH350/700R4.



I don't have a good direct picture of the EGR delete from Marked so this will have to do. The two on the outside are outbound hot (from the heads), the one on the inside is inbound cold (direct to the back of the water pump).

Power Steering pump and tensioner
I bought the power steering conversion from them as well so I could run a PSC TC pump. As well as the belt tensioner setup. You can also see in the lower left, that I got a remote oil filter kit from them as well.

Intake manifold debacle
As you can see in the first picture of this post, the engine is setup with the intake pulling air from the "back" of the engine. This is because it is setup as a transverse mount in the soccer mom van, and cause I guess that is what Honda wanted. I considered trying to run it like this, and even bringing the intake into the interior. I don't want to listen to that thing suck air while I'm wheeling, and if there is one thing I'll take every precaution to avoid its deep water forging. So nothing to take advantage of for my use case. So knowing that I needed room to at least make a 180 degree pipe to bring the intake back under the hood something needed to change, the engine position was not great. I wanted that weight as far rearward as possible.

Here is a pic so you can see how far that baby sticks out the back. Maybe this would be a good thing if I was building the chassis from scratch, I could plan for it.

My first concern was; will it fit over my not so factory position power steering pump? If you research turning this manifold around, some people do it by rotating the top section above the runners 180 degrees. But the bolt pattern does not match, so you would need to setup a new one. I spoke with the guys at Power Rev Racing in Florida, and they told me that the heads are symmetric in this engine. So, I should be able to swap the runners from side to side, then build on top.


Problem 1: the left side runner has the EGR "port" where is sucks in the exhaust. Since the heads are symmetric, there is actually a hole in place for it on the other head.

Here is a pic of the right side runner (factory position) bolted to the left head. You can see there is a gasket ready to accept the other runner which has a place for it. Inside the head, it just takes a quick 90 degree turn and goes out the back

Here we are looking at the inside of the right head, where the runner would bolt. You can see that the egr 'hole' does exist here, but it opens up behind the timing belt. I guess Honda just leaves it open?? However, I don't want my intake pulling dirty air from inside that timing belt cover. That bracket in the way looks like just something they use in the assembly line to lift the engine from so it can go. it was also in the way, but not my main concern. The power steering pump was the show stopper.

Here we have the intake top, sitting on the riser, with only the right side runner bolted to the left head. I just wanted to confirm that if everything was working, I could still clear the pump. Looks good.

Side view of the same thing.

Ill go into how I handled this in the next post.

 

[YeeP]

J35 Intake rotation

Another issue I didn't show in the last post, is the bottom of the riser, and eventually the top of the intake have a port for the exhaust gas to flow.
It's the medium sized one on the far left. This is a view from the bottom of the top part on the intake. So, I cant just cut the EGR stuff out of the runner, because this will just suck dirt in while it's running.

So I use the gasket from the side that did not have EGR (right), and draw a line where the runner would end if it didn't have EGR. I also cut off the outermost bolt hole as it will not be needed and there is a bracket in the way.

Now if I cut on that line, my fitmet issue with the power steering pump is solved, but I will suck in dirt. I could modify the riser by plugging the hole, but I decided to modify the runner in a way that would plug this hole instead.

I began to cut the EGR port line down, little by little. If everything failed, I could cut on that line I drew and handle the issue above.

First cut is the deepest? Not really in this scenario....

After continued cutting, I got the intake to pass by the bolt on the back of the pump, but still needed to fit a nut on it, and be able to work on it...

There was still a lot of useless meat on that bone, so I removed most of the EGR port. At this point I have the minimum space needed to get a nut on the bolt, and fit a wrench. All material removal from this point was done to make it not look like a hack

My little line came in handy, now I can just run two of the same runner gasket. I used some sanding drums to smooth out the rough areas.

At this point I was satisfied that it at least looked like I tried to make it look better. Although I had a TIG welder that was capable of doing this job, I did not feel comfortable attempting one of my first aluminum welds on a cast intake manifold.

I took it to a local welding shop and they finished it up for me. So the EGR debacle is now solved.

Or so I thought. The factory fuel rail is fairly rigid between sides and not symmetric. It fought like hell trying to get it on for a test fit. Since I sure as hell don't want to fight that in the future, time to spend some cash. My new friends at Power Rev Racing came in clutch with their billet fuel rail. It is definitely tailored for performance, all AN fittings, pretty nice setup. I can appreciate that, but I bought it to make the buggy easier to work on.

And it still sits in the box with all my other stuff waiting to install.

 

[Bebop]

That's a whole lot of work to avoid a $500 5.3

Impressive start and wish you the best.

Sub'd

PS : Tons of JDM guys are into swapping engines. Making your own harness shouldn't be so bad.

 

[YeeP]

That's a whole lot of work to avoid a $500 5.3

Impressive start and wish you the best.

Sub'd

PS : Tons of JDM guys are into swapping engines. Making your own harness shouldn't be so bad.

Thanks I appreciate it.

This engine weighs in at 270 lbs complete (unverified by myself) and 300hp (new). I'll take the smaller, lighter package this time.

EDIT: take a gander at that link I put up above: Honda V6 Stand Alone Engine Harness NO LONGER AVAILABLE! [spwire36] - $899.99 : Marked Motorsports, Team Website
That product description is from a guy that was working this engine for off road use a lot longer than me. Sounds to me like the way to do it is alone without other business helping. I have been acquiring the factory technical books from ebay for a little bit now. I have the wiring harness schematics. Just preparing for some work I think Ill need to do. I feel like at the very least I can use what I have as a road map.

 

[Bebop]

I read the link before posting.
I also spend a lot of time in the desert racing forums / community and these engines are well supported. Now it isn't cheap.

 

[YeeP]

I read the link before posting.
I also spend a lot of time in the desert racing forums / community and these engines are well supported. Now it isn't cheap.

You are right I have seen this engine in sand and desert rigs. I'll start looking in that direction. Thanks