Minimum Shop Dimensions

[woods]

Things are about to start to get real. Getting a quote to clear and backfill some land. Then the call to the concrete guy. Poured foundation and 4' frost walls. Just scratching my head on dimensions. Original plan was 30x40. Two garage doors. Probably 10' and a 14'. Tall enough to have my truck on the lift and me able to stand under it. (6'4") So probably 14' walls?

Truck is 23' long. So 30' seems like it'd be a bit tight with my truck in there with 3.5' in the front and rear.

Along with the lift, tire machine, maybe balancer, welder, bench(es), tool cabinets, compressor, blast cabinet, and all that other stuff that goes with it, I can't nail down the width. I know bigger is always better for a shop, but I can't swing $100k for concrete either.

So perhaps 35x45? 40x60 would be badass, but I think that's going to outdo the checkbook.

Then there's my thoughts on what dimensions make the most sense lumber. I know jack shit about carpentry, but if things come in 8s, would it make sense for the dimensions to be a factor of 8? Like 32x48?

Suggestions? Input? Perhaps some pictures of shops in the 30x40 flavor?

Thanks.

 

[kf4zht]

14 wall for sure - if just so that moving material and storage is easier. 1/2 sticks of most steel are 10-12 ft, with 14ft walls you can store vertically for easier sorting. Plus there are some really good lighting options that work better for mid-high bays

And yes - it makes sense to do building in multiples of 8 (really 4)

Go ahead and plan on building an outside shed for the compressor. Get that noise and heat out of the shop. I'm doing mine now and its going to cost less than $150, even with the inflated building material prices

 

[woods]

14 wall for sure - if just so that moving material and storage is easier. 1/2 sticks of most steel are 10-12 ft, with 14ft walls you can store vertically for easier sorting. Plus there are some really good lighting options that work better for mid-high bays

And yes - it makes sense to do building in multiples of 8 (really 4)

Go ahead and plan on building an outside shed for the compressor. Get that noise and heat out of the shop. I'm doing mine now and its going to cost less than $150, even with the inflated building material prices

Yea, I was going to do a little enclosure for the compressor.

Multiples of 4', that makes sense.

Home Depot has a neat software program: http://homedepot.bighammer.com/cqdesignstartneo/

That was just a quick 5m toss together. Of course it'll have windows and stuff. But at the end, you edit your stuff like siding and roofing, then it bangs out a materials list. Pretty neat.

 

[crispins]

Yea, I was going to do a little enclosure for the compressor.

Multiples of 4', that makes sense.

Home Depot has a neat software program: http://homedepot.bighammer.com/cqdesignstartneo/



That was just a quick 5m toss together. Of course it'll have windows and stuff. But at the end, you edit your stuff like siding and roofing, then it bangs out a materials list. Pretty neat.

Very cool, thanks for that link.

I am starting on planning for a new (2nd) shop for the end of this year.

Not sure on the size either, thinking 30x50 if I can swing the expense of that.

 

[PAToyota]

Keeping things to 4' increments is good. Worst case, try to keep it to 2' increments.

I'm not going to download the HD planner just to see, but does it allow you to do layout?

Grizzly Tools had a workshop planner - https://www.grizzly.com/user/shop-planner - but Adobe discontinued Flash, so they're still working on the next generation of it.

It would allow you to chose Grizzly tools and lay them out in a space, but you could also make boxes to represent other things - ie: a Suburban is approx. 224.5" x 80.5" or your tire machine is 4' x 3' - make a box of those dimensions and label it.

Old school way was to cut pieces out of graph paper (a square is one foot by one foot) and move them around on another sheet representing your garage. I'm sure you can find other software to use as well.

In any case, lay out the sizes of your vehicles and equipment and spend some time moving them around on paper to see what fits.

In any case, once your garage is built you'll find that it is too small and you'll wish it was larger...

 

[ChiScouter]

Since no matter what you build at some point you will want bigger I would design to easily be able to add on to.

 

[Lil'John]

Since no matter what you build at some point you will want bigger I would design to easily be able to add on to.

This. I'm not sure I've ever seen someone claim they were upset they built a large shop

Since it sounds like you are stick framing, I'd almost consider 14' over a lift area and normal 8' for the rest. Less material and less volume to heat.

 

[woods]

This. I'm not sure I've ever seen someone claim they were upset they built a large shop

Since it sounds like you are stick framing, I'd almost consider 14' over a lift area and normal 8' for the rest. Less material and less volume to heat.

Well, that would mean the lift in the center then? So, 12' door in the center and, a standard 7' or 8' door on one side. Entry door on the other maybe. That's an idea.

I'm probably going to do a build on this once the groundbreaking begins. Right now I'm just trying to nail down some dimensions to get a quote for the concrete guy. I need to be able to pull my CCLB F250 in there, have room to walk around behind it with the door closed, probably have a bench in front of it, and high enough for me to walk under. So at 23' long, 32' may be good. The location is sort of tricky because there's a brook some distance away. Because of that, it'll be better wider than deeper.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

I agree with being able to add on to it, don’t discount having just a roof or lean to for covered storage if you can’t afford full walls/insulation/etc on everything. Figure on saving the multiple crane rental trips, delivery fees, etc.

I REALLY want a 40’ x 60’ with 10’ wide lean-to’s on two sides, but realized I could “make do” with less if it sped up the time frame significantly. IMO a 20’ x 40’ shop is more useful than a 30’ x 30’ one, especially when you add vehicles into the mix. You can leave one end for tools and open work space rather than fighting with 4’ of space all the way around something.

I’d try to build a 40’ x 60’ roof and then pour a 40’ x 20’ slab and get the walls up. My plan was to do double sliding 9-10’ doors in the middle of one of the 40’ sides, so they could just be moved down as you continued enclosing it. You’d have two short walls on either end and an 18-20’ wide opening in the middle.

 

[woods]

Lean-to type dealio will be on both sides. High enough so I can park the L series under it out of the weather.

 

[Lil'John]

Well, that would mean the lift in the center then? So, 12' door in the center and, a standard 7' or 8' door on one side. Entry door on the other maybe. That's an idea.

I'm probably going to do a build on this once the groundbreaking begins. Right now I'm just trying to nail down some dimensions to get a quote for the concrete guy. I need to be able to pull my CCLB F250 in there, have room to walk around behind it with the door closed, probably have a bench in front of it, and high enough for me to walk under. So at 23' long, 32' may be good. The location is sort of tricky because there's a brook some distance away. Because of that, it'll be better wider than deeper.

My photoshop skills were sucking and I'm not finding shit online searching.

Using your picture, put the lift in the far left tall bay. Then drop the roof "on top" of the next bay and all the way to the right. My friend had a mirror of yours with the lift at the far bay with a tall door. In the middle was a 14-16 foot wide standard height garage door(two car bay). At the end was a man door.

*edit*
Here is a bad hack on a front face(lift in the left bay, rest of crap to the right):

 

[woods]

I gotcha. Yea, that's something to consider too. That's a good idea. Would really help with heat too.

 

[Dethmachinefab]

30 deep by at least 40 wide. Two vehicle bays and and shop bay will work well. I doubt you'll see a huge price increase in dirtwork and concrete by going just a bit bigger.

 

[u2slow]

Lean-to type dealio will be on both sides. High enough so I can park the L series under it out of the weather.

I had to include the lean-to's at build time. Otherwise the mean/average roof height was too tall for my bylaws. I got a 19' ceiling out the deal, and 11-12ish under the lean-to's.

 

[Yotota]

What's your location, and what's your budget?

What are the soil conditions at the site?

How much space is available at the site? (Length X Width)

Any particular reason you want to stick-frame it?

Have you considered prefab steel, anchored to a slab-on-grade foundation over a compacted crushed rock base? (Depending on your location and soil/temperature conditions)

How big and what style lift? If it's a 2-post, you'll need to plan for the thicccc concrete footing.

How finished do you want the interior? Drywall, insulation, HVAC, etc.

If space and budget allow, shoot for the fawking moon and go huge. Nobody ever complains about too much shop space. But most of the time shop size is limited by the site dimensions and the budget...

 

[shortbus4x4]

Have you priced out a 40x60 versus the smaller shop yet? I would do 14' walls on the whole shop. Do you live in snow country? If so try very hard to have your doors on the ends, snow sliding off sucks. I would try very hard to do the biggest shop you can possibly do even if it means adding some options like lean toos later.

 

[woods]

Yotota

What's your location, and what's your budget?
Northern New England. I have $80k, but man I don't really want to go over $50k

What are the soil conditions at the site?
Rocky, roots, stumps, and a brook a bit out back. I'll be out there tomorrow with that measuring reel getting a few things sorted. There's going to need to be about 5' deep of back fill. Friend is going to rent an ex and stump it out. Says he'll probably do it in a day. Dad and I are going to knock out the trees. Use the L series to drag em' out. There's probably fifty trees of smallish diameter.

How much space is available at the site? (Length X Width)
I'll know more tomorrow. Width-wise, anything. The only hangup is the backfilling. I should have a better idea on length tomorrow.

Any particular reason you want to stick-frame it?
So I know jack shit about carpentry. Stick frame goes along with the 4' frost wall construction, correct? I can't do a slab because of the frost. It'll crack for sure.

Have you considered prefab steel, anchored to a slab-on-grade foundation over a compacted crushed rock base? (Depending on your location and soil/temperature conditions)
Going to try to treat this like a house. It'll have matching vinyl siding to match the house, etc. And yea, slabs don't work in my area.

How big and what style lift? If it's a 2-post, you'll need to plan for the thicccc concrete footing.
Two post. Bend-Pak seems to be the go-to. I don't care for those driveup ones. To bulky.

XPR-10AXLS (5175991)

10,000-lb. Capacity / Two-Post Lift / Asymmetric Clearfloor / Extra Tall <-link

And yawp, very thick at the lift base. That's a big reason I'm thinking close to $30k for just the concrete.

How finished do you want the interior? Drywall, insulation, HVAC, etc.
Eh, basic. Pegboard all around. My good friend does spray foam so I may see what he thinks. No need for a/c. Heat....wood stove maybe? Our rental has a MASSIVE woodstove in the basement that hasn't been used in decades. I have unlimited wood, so that will probably be what I go with.

If space and budget allow, shoot for the fawking moon and go huge. Nobody ever complains about too much shop space. But most of the time shop size is limited by the site dimensions and the budget...

Yep, that's sort of the plan. It'll be easy to get to $100k. And I don't want that. $50k is my figure, but I do have the excess if need be.


Honestly, I should probably start a video account. Take some videos and whatnot. Post what it is that I'm working with.

 

[u2slow]

20x38 with 13' wide lean-to's (stick framed) ran me over $100k in 2013. Unfinished inside.

You'll have a better idea after site prep - that cost me double what I anticipated.

 

[crisbee1]

30x50x16 insulated, 6" pad. 14' door offset to the left, man door out the back. Lift is offset to the right. Everything on wheels.

 

[Yotota]

Yotota

What's your location, and what's your budget?
Northern New England. I have $80k, but man I don't really want to go over $50k

What are the soil conditions at the site?
Rocky, roots, stumps, and a brook a bit out back. I'll be out there tomorrow with that measuring reel getting a few things sorted. There's going to need to be about 5' deep of back fill. Friend is going to rent an ex and stump it out. Says he'll probably do it in a day. Dad and I are going to knock out the trees. Use the L series to drag em' out. There's probably fifty trees of smallish diameter.

How much space is available at the site? (Length X Width)
I'll know more tomorrow. Width-wise, anything. The only hangup is the backfilling. I should have a better idea on length tomorrow.

Any particular reason you want to stick-frame it?
So I know jack shit about carpentry. Stick frame goes along with the 4' frost wall construction, correct? I can't do a slab because of the frost. It'll crack for sure.

Have you considered prefab steel, anchored to a slab-on-grade foundation over a compacted crushed rock base? (Depending on your location and soil/temperature conditions)
Going to try to treat this like a house. It'll have matching vinyl siding to match the house, etc. And yea, slabs don't work in my area.

How big and what style lift? If it's a 2-post, you'll need to plan for the thicccc concrete footing.
Two post. Bend-Pak seems to be the go-to. I don't care for those driveup ones. To bulky.

XPR-10AXLS (5175991)

10,000-lb. Capacity / Two-Post Lift / Asymmetric Clearfloor / Extra Tall <-link

And yawp, very thick at the lift base. That's a big reason I'm thinking close to $30k for just the concrete.

How finished do you want the interior? Drywall, insulation, HVAC, etc.
Eh, basic. Pegboard all around. My good friend does spray foam so I may see what he thinks. No need for a/c. Heat....wood stove maybe? Our rental has a MASSIVE woodstove in the basement that hasn't been used in decades. I have unlimited wood, so that will probably be what I go with.

If space and budget allow, shoot for the fawking moon and go huge. Nobody ever complains about too much shop space. But most of the time shop size is limited by the site dimensions and the budget...

Yep, that's sort of the plan. It'll be easy to get to $100k. And I don't want that. $50k is my figure, but I do have the excess if need be.


Honestly, I should probably start a video account. Take some videos and whatnot. Post what it is that I'm working with.

I'm gonna be honest, I never have the time to watch anyone's video updates about projects or truck builds or anything. Pics and text, yes. Videos, never.

About the shop:

The 4 foot frost wall should have pointed out to me that things are different than what I'm used to on the West Coast. Frost heaving is something that I've never experienced. You'll need to confirm plans with a local Engineer before applying for permits anyway, so confirm with them what will or won't fly in your area with your soil.

No HVAC will help your budget, but you'll need to factor in electrical work as well (probably including a new service.

How much are you planning to DIY on the build? That will determine a lot of the actual budget. Stick frame is labor intensive, and lumber isn't cheap these days. Prefab is more expensive materials but much less labor.

I'm curious to see how this works out! I'm property shopping and a shop is a necessity, so I've been planning a build in case we don't end up with an existing shop. But here in WA state ours are commonly simple slab-on-grade prefab steel buildings or pole barns.

 

[TRINDU]

40x100 and drive through

 

[xjmark]

Do you live in snow country? If so try very hard to have your doors on the ends, snow sliding off sucks. I would try very hard to do the biggest shop you can possibly do even if it means adding some options like lean toos later.

All four of my garage doors are under the slope of the roof, and it sucks moving that much snow when we get a lot of it. If I ever build a garage in a new location, it will be designed with the garage doors on the ends.

As mentioned before, an extra add-on room with the compressor and heat and or A/C mechanicals is very nice to have.

 

[woods]

I'm gonna be honest, I never have the time to watch anyone's video updates about projects or truck builds or anything. Pics and text, yes. Videos, never.

About the shop:

The 4 foot frost wall should have pointed out to me that things are different than what I'm used to on the West Coast. Frost heaving is something that I've never experienced. You'll need to confirm plans with a local Engineer before applying for permits anyway, so confirm with them what will or won't fly in your area with your soil.

No HVAC will help your budget, but you'll need to factor in electrical work as well (probably including a new service.

How much are you planning to DIY on the build? That will determine a lot of the actual budget. Stick frame is labor intensive, and lumber isn't cheap these days. Prefab is more expensive materials but much less labor.

I'm curious to see how this works out! I'm property shopping and a shop is a necessity, so I've been planning a build in case we don't end up with an existing shop. But here in WA state ours are commonly simple slab-on-grade prefab steel buildings or pole barns.

I'll do both. Video to show what I'm working with. Few pictures to help along.

Framing and stuff we'll probably knock out. The trusses can come prefabbed I thought. Probably have someone do that. Roofing, no idea. I can do it, but...ugh. Siding, easy. Starter strip and J-channel. Electrical, hard no.

This year will be the foundation, probably at most because of lumber costs. Hoping the bottom falls out of that market.

But yea, I can't do a slab. It'll crack within years at most.

 

[Toreadorranger]

Electrical, hard no.

Electrical is not hard at all. look at the codes for your area, buy some wire and boxes and have at it. At the very least wire the inside yourself and pay someone to do the meter/hookup.

 

[rockota]

If I could do it all over, I would 100% stick frame. Steel or Pole is faster to build, but IMHO, if there's any intent of finishing out the inside, you'll end up putting just as much work/lumber into framing after the initial build.

Instead of the dual height roofline, build a nice storage area above one side. You'll never regret having the extra space.

For lean-to... I'd consider going tall. I have 3 on my barn. 1- gable end is about 12' tall. Currently houses the sawmill and 3-point attachments. The other two are are 12' wide, by ~7-8' on the low end. I wish I had another 2 feet. Either for parking things on a trailer or getting the mini-ex in/out from the side... Or.. .eventually a camper.

 

[grumpy356]

Yotota

What's your location, and what's your budget?
Northern New England. I have $80k, but man I don't really want to go over $50k

What are the soil conditions at the site?
Rocky, roots, stumps, and a brook a bit out back. I'll be out there tomorrow with that measuring reel getting a few things sorted. There's going to need to be about 5' deep of back fill. Friend is going to rent an ex and stump it out. Says he'll probably do it in a day. Dad and I are going to knock out the trees. Use the L series to drag em' out. There's probably fifty trees of smallish diameter.

How much space is available at the site? (Length X Width)
I'll know more tomorrow. Width-wise, anything. The only hangup is the backfilling. I should have a better idea on length tomorrow.

Any particular reason you want to stick-frame it?
So I know jack shit about carpentry. Stick frame goes along with the 4' frost wall construction, correct? I can't do a slab because of the frost. It'll crack for sure.

Have you considered prefab steel, anchored to a slab-on-grade foundation over a compacted crushed rock base? (Depending on your location and soil/temperature conditions)
Going to try to treat this like a house. It'll have matching vinyl siding to match the house, etc. And yea, slabs don't work in my area.

How big and what style lift? If it's a 2-post, you'll need to plan for the thicccc concrete footing.
Two post. Bend-Pak seems to be the go-to. I don't care for those driveup ones. To bulky.

XPR-10AXLS (5175991)

10,000-lb. Capacity / Two-Post Lift / Asymmetric Clearfloor / Extra Tall <-link

And yawp, very thick at the lift base. That's a big reason I'm thinking close to $30k for just the concrete.

How finished do you want the interior? Drywall, insulation, HVAC, etc.
Eh, basic. Pegboard all around. My good friend does spray foam so I may see what he thinks. No need for a/c. Heat....wood stove maybe? Our rental has a MASSIVE woodstove in the basement that hasn't been used in decades. I have unlimited wood, so that will probably be what I go with.

If space and budget allow, shoot for the fawking moon and go huge. Nobody ever complains about too much shop space. But most of the time shop size is limited by the site dimensions and the budget...

Yep, that's sort of the plan. It'll be easy to get to $100k. And I don't want that. $50k is my figure, but I do have the excess if need be.


Honestly, I should probably start a video account. Take some videos and whatnot. Post what it is that I'm working with.

I could easily be at 50k in dirt work & concrete where I am. (especially if I got into any aprons or drive ways)

Good luck. I'm Jealous.

 

[woods]

So I started to take a few pictures and video with my old smartphone. Then it got stuck on rebooting; the reason why I haven't touched it. And my dumbphone isn't even worth taking pictures with. So the build thread or whatever is dead before I start it. I'll see if I have an old camera kicking around somewhere.

But, you want a good laugh?

So that's what I've measured out. That's a chunk of area that needs to be filled in. Large enough for the shop, park vehicles, the tractor, implements, etc. I mean, that's full tilt. But its also 5' deep.

One thousand fucking sixty four yards of material.

That's 66 dump trucks. Sooooo I'm going to have to reel this in a bit.

 

[rockota]

So I started to take a few pictures and video with my old smartphone. Then it got stuck on rebooting; the reason why I haven't touched it. And my dumbphone isn't even worth taking pictures with. So the build thread or whatever is dead before I start it. I'll see if I have an old camera kicking around somewhere.

But, you want a good laugh?



So that's what I've measured out. That's a chunk of area that needs to be filled in. Large enough for the shop, park vehicles, the tractor, implements, etc. I mean, that's full tilt. But its also 5' deep.

One thousand fucking sixty four yards of material.

That's 66 dump trucks. Sooooo I'm going to have to reel this in a bit.

Has to alternatives? That’s eat up a good portion of the budget...

 

[woods]

Has to alternatives? That’s eat up a good portion of the budget...

yea, pull it in further away from the brook. Knock down the 57' to something like 45'. Then instead of 110', do something around 60'.

I'm waiting to hear back from my friend to get an idea of what I'm looking for per yard. Go from there. In person it doesn't look that much, but when its on the screen with the numbers, holy shit that's no joke.

 

[Pocahontas]

Depending on time line and location you should be able to get free fill dirt but may take awhile, just let the local excavation companies know they can dump for free or you will pay them $50 a dump if you aren't real convenient.

I would do a 40x40 now then when you run out of room you can add another 40x20 or 40x40 for all your other stuff. Everyone runs out of room so being able to add on easily is extremely nice, being able to work out of the weather makes everything easier and projects go faster.