His insurer is my guess. He's on the hook for co-pay and 20% of the rest if they cover the remainder.
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Medical malpractice suit
- Thread starter Deuce 40s
- Start date
His insurer is my guess. He's on the hook for co-pay and 20% of the rest if they cover the remainder.
OP-- If the catheter was supposed to be removed, and wasn't, which resulted in an unnecessary surgery and medical bills, I'd think you'd have a case for sure. If I knew that area I'd whip up a demand letter for you and see what happens. But, I don't and I can't practice in NC. So
Good to know there's hope. Hopefully we can find an attorney that's willing to write a letter.
This I didn't know. NC appears to have limits set around 500k.
IowaOffRoad
Imperator Donvaldus Ioannes
TL;DR, Depends on what you actually want by suing...
Wall of Text, Mom edition
Background, my mom worked in medical transcription on-site at our local hospital for 15 years then remote for another 10, so she has loyalty to them. She's also a very kind person who doesn't like to make a fuss and always assumes the best in everyone. She also is of the generation where her default is to treat Dr.'s and medicine in general as infallible.
My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer by her Dr at the time. As there is 'some' breast cancer in her family my mom made the decision to take the entire breast. Good so far...
My mom wanted the results of the biopsy of the tissue when they removed her breast. Got the run-around. Took her something like a year to get them. When she finally got results of the biopsy they showed no tumor. Went back to get the results of the original biopsy from the diagnosis... another run-around. Found out some records were falsified. Dr. wouldn't admit any kind of fault. Mom finally approached the Dr. with this: Admit you were wrong, reimburse my out-of-pocket, reimburse my insurance company. Apologize for lying and falsifying records. Bitch Dr. still wouldn't admit to falsifying records (my mom know how to read the medical charts and results and she was shown the original results by said Dr.).
Mom goes to lawyer. Tells lawyer what she wants. Lawyer told her they would try. Originally and at this moment all she wants is what was stated previously, but now attorney fees and said Dr. to be reviewed by the state medical board. Dr's lawyers (probably at this time Dr.'s ins. co. lawyers) want to just cut her a check for something like 20k with a signature on a paper to make her go away.
For my mom this is a personal betrayal of the system she believes in. She wants what she wants. In investigating this my mom's lawyers found out that there were a bunch of incidents of malpractice by this Dr. Mom knows some of them personally (small town) and speaks with them. Now she wants this Dr. to lose her job, but mom still isn't asking for money. Time goes by, about a year...
Mom still adamant she doesn't want a payday, but mom's lawyer is telling her that the only way to make a statement to the hospital, the Dr's ins. co. and the Dr herself is to sue for at or above the insurance limit (Dr's ins limit at the time was 7-800k, can't remember) so the suit was for 1 million. Well, this wakes everyone up. More time passes...
Mom's lawyer comes to her one day, ins. co. wants to settle for 270k plus paying mom's legal expenses. No board review, not consequences to the Dr. Mom is pissed but the lawyer tells her that if she doesn't take it the trial might go either way and my Mom would be on the hook for all legal expenses (knowing now what I didn't know then, they were probably right). Eventually she took it. Dr "moved on to new opportunities", still a Dr in the area here 20 years later (another story, while this was going on with my mom, she almost killed my wife (then GF for about 2 months) by telling her to stay at home when she had pneumonia, had to go to ER and spent 3 days in the hospital).
What my mom wanted:
To right a wrong. She considered hospitals and Dr.s practically sacred and infallible. This was a major affront to her sensibilities. To cover her out-of-pocket medical. And, because my mom has these kind of principles, reimburse the insurance company of their out of pocket. Later she wanted the Dr. investigated (she never demanded removal).
What she got:
Some money. She bought a used 2000 Mercury Mountaineer she still has (been a damn good vehicle had it for 18 years now), burnt most of it up paying for a bunch of my sisters' and her husbands' nonsense, and the rest taking care of my ailing father for the 4 years before he died. Like I said before, shitbag Dr. still working as a Dr (I personally wouldn't trust her to wipe ass as a CNA).
My mom said after working with and around Dr.s for decades, "Dr's and Hospitals make mistakes, they are human. When they do make mistakes they should make sure they admit to it so they don't do it again." She never wanted a 'payday'. She just wanted her trust in the system restored. I do believe the only way to make them admit a mistake and try to rectify it in the future with the laws we have on the books today is to smack them around about money, but if you want what my mom wanted... good luck. I'm personally cynical about the system of today seeing how bad it was 2 decades ago. All the rules/regs they have now just reinforce avoiding personal accountability.
Wall of Text, Mom edition
Background, my mom worked in medical transcription on-site at our local hospital for 15 years then remote for another 10, so she has loyalty to them. She's also a very kind person who doesn't like to make a fuss and always assumes the best in everyone. She also is of the generation where her default is to treat Dr.'s and medicine in general as infallible.
My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer by her Dr at the time. As there is 'some' breast cancer in her family my mom made the decision to take the entire breast. Good so far...
My mom wanted the results of the biopsy of the tissue when they removed her breast. Got the run-around. Took her something like a year to get them. When she finally got results of the biopsy they showed no tumor. Went back to get the results of the original biopsy from the diagnosis... another run-around. Found out some records were falsified. Dr. wouldn't admit any kind of fault. Mom finally approached the Dr. with this: Admit you were wrong, reimburse my out-of-pocket, reimburse my insurance company. Apologize for lying and falsifying records. Bitch Dr. still wouldn't admit to falsifying records (my mom know how to read the medical charts and results and she was shown the original results by said Dr.).
Mom goes to lawyer. Tells lawyer what she wants. Lawyer told her they would try. Originally and at this moment all she wants is what was stated previously, but now attorney fees and said Dr. to be reviewed by the state medical board. Dr's lawyers (probably at this time Dr.'s ins. co. lawyers) want to just cut her a check for something like 20k with a signature on a paper to make her go away.
For my mom this is a personal betrayal of the system she believes in. She wants what she wants. In investigating this my mom's lawyers found out that there were a bunch of incidents of malpractice by this Dr. Mom knows some of them personally (small town) and speaks with them. Now she wants this Dr. to lose her job, but mom still isn't asking for money. Time goes by, about a year...
Mom still adamant she doesn't want a payday, but mom's lawyer is telling her that the only way to make a statement to the hospital, the Dr's ins. co. and the Dr herself is to sue for at or above the insurance limit (Dr's ins limit at the time was 7-800k, can't remember) so the suit was for 1 million. Well, this wakes everyone up. More time passes...
Mom's lawyer comes to her one day, ins. co. wants to settle for 270k plus paying mom's legal expenses. No board review, not consequences to the Dr. Mom is pissed but the lawyer tells her that if she doesn't take it the trial might go either way and my Mom would be on the hook for all legal expenses (knowing now what I didn't know then, they were probably right). Eventually she took it. Dr "moved on to new opportunities", still a Dr in the area here 20 years later (another story, while this was going on with my mom, she almost killed my wife (then GF for about 2 months) by telling her to stay at home when she had pneumonia, had to go to ER and spent 3 days in the hospital).
What my mom wanted:
To right a wrong. She considered hospitals and Dr.s practically sacred and infallible. This was a major affront to her sensibilities. To cover her out-of-pocket medical. And, because my mom has these kind of principles, reimburse the insurance company of their out of pocket. Later she wanted the Dr. investigated (she never demanded removal).
What she got:
Some money. She bought a used 2000 Mercury Mountaineer she still has (been a damn good vehicle had it for 18 years now), burnt most of it up paying for a bunch of my sisters' and her husbands' nonsense, and the rest taking care of my ailing father for the 4 years before he died. Like I said before, shitbag Dr. still working as a Dr (I personally wouldn't trust her to wipe ass as a CNA).
My mom said after working with and around Dr.s for decades, "Dr's and Hospitals make mistakes, they are human. When they do make mistakes they should make sure they admit to it so they don't do it again." She never wanted a 'payday'. She just wanted her trust in the system restored. I do believe the only way to make them admit a mistake and try to rectify it in the future with the laws we have on the books today is to smack them around about money, but if you want what my mom wanted... good luck. I'm personally cynical about the system of today seeing how bad it was 2 decades ago. All the rules/regs they have now just reinforce avoiding personal accountability.
CDA 455 II
ANFAQUE2
4.5 years and case was settled.
I think that's what we're expecting. We'd love a quick settlement if possible without going to trial or extending this out for years.
akguy09
PITA
Want to be prepared for a Medical Lawsuit.....Learn this.
AHRQ Harm Scale has 6 options to assign severity of harm (death, severe, moderate, mild, no harm, unknown)
Make sure you know what "Standard of care" is...did the provider/Nurse meet the "standard of care" for a person with those qualifications based on a resonable persons view.
The list of stuff to use in a lawsuit goes on and on against the medical Center and the Provider. Was the provider Credentialed/Privileged correctly at that Center, whats the process to ensure that the Center reviewed his Credentials?
Has that Provider ever been entered into the "National Practitioner's Database" previous for patient harm/ standard of care issues?
AHRQ Harm Scale has 6 options to assign severity of harm (death, severe, moderate, mild, no harm, unknown)
Make sure you know what "Standard of care" is...did the provider/Nurse meet the "standard of care" for a person with those qualifications based on a resonable persons view.
The list of stuff to use in a lawsuit goes on and on against the medical Center and the Provider. Was the provider Credentialed/Privileged correctly at that Center, whats the process to ensure that the Center reviewed his Credentials?
Has that Provider ever been entered into the "National Practitioner's Database" previous for patient harm/ standard of care issues?
I know he was the subject of a malpractice suit a few years ago, but I'm not able to see the outcome.
MigGunslinger
Red Skull Member
I think everybody has or is going to have a specific wake up call when you realize that there are people performing surgeries that absolutely should not be. Whether it is because of training, temperament, or experience they do not have what it takes and should not be trusted to cut someone open.
Stuff gets left inside of people all the time during surgery, it is a huge problem that causes a bunch of infections and deaths. From what I understand there are all kinds of procedures and products designed solely to prevent this from happening. The length of time that thing was in him is wild, I wonder if the doctor even has records that far back.
After my mom's 3rd knee replacement on the same knee failed she was referred to a surgeon that travels around the country fixing knee replacements done by quack surgeons. She explored a malpractice suit against the surgeon and kaiser but basically every lawyer told her that it would not be worth it unless she had lost a leg or something. Basically recovering from having her leg cut open knee cut out and bone shaved and fit into sockets three times more than necessary is not enough suffering.
Stuff gets left inside of people all the time during surgery, it is a huge problem that causes a bunch of infections and deaths. From what I understand there are all kinds of procedures and products designed solely to prevent this from happening. The length of time that thing was in him is wild, I wonder if the doctor even has records that far back.
After my mom's 3rd knee replacement on the same knee failed she was referred to a surgeon that travels around the country fixing knee replacements done by quack surgeons. She explored a malpractice suit against the surgeon and kaiser but basically every lawyer told her that it would not be worth it unless she had lost a leg or something. Basically recovering from having her leg cut open knee cut out and bone shaved and fit into sockets three times more than necessary is not enough suffering.
The good update: An attorney called my dad back this week and is very interested in taking on the case, she said he's got a good probability. They all signed paperwork with the attorney getting the first 1/3 of the pot if they settle plus expenses. If they go to trial, the attorney gets 40% plus expenses. They still have the option to decline the case if their research says it's a lost cause.
The bad update: My dad is back in the ED as of last night with 11/10 pain levels in his chest. CT scans show a blood clot in his lungs. The Drs. have speculated it would be from the old catheter dislodging from just above the lungs. He's on blood thinner now to hopefully prevent the clot from getting any larger. More tests will be coming in the next few days to see if there are any other underlying issues like catheter fragments wreaking havoc.
He was on a flight yesterday back home and they think that could have exacerbated the blood clot to the lungs.
The bad update: My dad is back in the ED as of last night with 11/10 pain levels in his chest. CT scans show a blood clot in his lungs. The Drs. have speculated it would be from the old catheter dislodging from just above the lungs. He's on blood thinner now to hopefully prevent the clot from getting any larger. More tests will be coming in the next few days to see if there are any other underlying issues like catheter fragments wreaking havoc.
He was on a flight yesterday back home and they think that could have exacerbated the blood clot to the lungs.
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
Keep track of those expenses, they could add up to a very large portion of the pot.The good update: An attorney called my dad back this week and is very interested in taking on the case, she said he's got a good probability. They all signed paperwork with the attorney getting the first 1/3 of the pot if they settle plus expenses. If they go to trial, the attorney gets 40% plus expenses. They still have the option to decline the case if their research says it's a lost cause.
The bad update: My dad is back in the ED as of last night with 11/10 pain levels in his chest. CT scans show a blood clot in his lungs. The Drs. have speculated it would be from the old catheter dislodging from just above the lungs. He's on blood thinner now to hopefully prevent the clot from getting any larger. More tests will be coming in the next few days to see if there are any other underlying issues like catheter fragments wreaking havoc.
He was on a flight yesterday back home and they think that could have exacerbated the blood clot to the lungs.
Hope your Dad gets some relief soon.
Thanks.
Not my dad's expenses. The attorney's expenses with expert witnesses, paperwork or whatever they have to pay for. I don't even know what they incur on their end.
My dad's expenses may roll into justification for larger settlement amounts though. As of a week or two ago, he's on medicare.
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
Understand. I'm saying keep track of what the attorney expenses are, you could be in for a big shock at the end.
DWT
Dirty White Trash
No kidding. Arbitrary made up figures ahead. 40% off the top of 10,000,000 is four million plus all the expert testimonials and research etc etc etc can easily be another million or two even with a relatively speedy trial.
Poke
I’m condescending
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30-40% is normal for contingencies.
And a good rule of thumb. If a lawyer hears your case and gives you an hourly rate - they don’t think they can win. If they take your case on contingency, they believe they can settle or win for big $
If they don't settle or win, he doesn't pay.
OutlawRider
Gum Gardener
Coming from the medical side:
I would have just talked to the Doc who did it to start. Hell, I would feel terrible.
Anyway, you sue and yes, we have tail coverage for even after we quit practicing. It will almost 100% be settled out of court for basically your cost of treatment this far out. No lawyer really wants to go to try on a maybe we win.
That’s why we have insurance. But they have good lawyers too (our insurance).
I would have just talked to the Doc who did it to start. Hell, I would feel terrible.
Anyway, you sue and yes, we have tail coverage for even after we quit practicing. It will almost 100% be settled out of court for basically your cost of treatment this far out. No lawyer really wants to go to try on a maybe we win.
That’s why we have insurance. But they have good lawyers too (our insurance).
CJF
Active member
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sdmuleman
Red Skull Member
And this is why we have a culture of lawsuits and liability BS. Anything goes wrong and we have to sue somebody.
Should be reported to licensing agency, and maybe ask for any direct cost. Nothing beyond that.
We gripe and moan about how much we hate the culture of litigation that modern society has become and then turn right around and feed into the BS at any opportunity.
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And this is why we have a culture of lawsuits and liability BS. Anything goes wrong and we have to sue somebody.
Should be reported to licensing agency, and maybe ask for any direct cost. Nothing beyond that.
We gripe and moan about how much we hate the culture of litigation that modern society has become and then turn right around and feed into the BS at any opportunity.
"The bad update: My dad is back in the ED as of last night with 11/10 pain levels in his chest. CT scans show a blood clot in his lungs. The Drs. have speculated it would be from the old catheter dislodging from just above the lungs. He's on blood thinner now to hopefully prevent the clot from getting any larger. More tests will be coming in the next few days to see if there are any other underlying issues like catheter fragments wreaking havoc"
And this is why we have a culture of lawsuits and liability BS. Anything goes wrong and we have to sue somebody.
Should be reported to licensing agency, and maybe ask for any direct cost. Nothing beyond that.
We gripe and moan about how much we hate the culture of litigation that modern society has become and then turn right around and feed into the BS at any opportunity.
Sounds like you've got it all figured out.sicumminsde
Member
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I've had to file one lawsuit in my life and it was hell for 3 years. What should have been pretty easy to come to a conclusion, was drawn out for 3 fucking years... it was very expensive and in the end I didn't end up with much even though I "won".
You'll be fighting an insurance company and they have lawyers on staff that will file every motion under the sun just to make the process longer.
Be prepared for a long fight!
Hopefully he (is he cognitive?) didnt sign a agreement that keeps him from sueing aka using the courts, had a dentist appointment this am the dentist put all kinds of paperwork in front of me to sign and one of the papers was a agreement to use only arbitration and not full blown malpractice suit.
I didnt sign it.
It was titled "Oral & maxillofacial surgeon's patient care association arbitration agreement"
I didnt sign it.
It was titled "Oral & maxillofacial surgeon's patient care association arbitration agreement"
Last edited:
Poke
I’m condescending
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Isn’t this different because the nurses and docs in the room would have known at the time? Or is that a poor assumption based on the red tip comment.
what surprised me the most about care is that you are getting opinions based on the education and experience of the provider. Testing can be definitive towards a diagnosis but most of it is just leading towards a potential cause not a definitive. A provider’s opinion is just that and not concrete fact many times. Based on A, B, and maybe C you probably have X. All the while the provider knows there is also a chance it’s Y.
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They are just mechanics, but for people. Sometimes you hook up the computer an do what it tells you. Sometimes you throw parts at it. Sometimes you hope you dont have to warranty your work
ev13wt
EvilTwit since 2005
Things that are basically impossible do happen.
This is so wild.
Good luck.
This is so wild.
Good luck.
OutlawRider
Gum Gardener
Here is the thing, possibly it is provable that it came from that one surgery 10 years ago? Maybe he decided he wanted to try placing his own catheter a couple weeks prior. They have no way of knowing the insertion area/date/time. They can assume pretty readily that it did come from that but any good lawyer is going to poke holes through both cases. It is a he said/she said.
As far as did the doc know at the time he did it, I would say not a chance. Do I think maybe a nurse knew because he most likely didn’t pull it out, possibly. Maybe it was a new chick and she didn’t know to look for the red tip? I don’t know. But I would like to think no doctor would just shove it down the road and say good luck to ya. I’m sure it happens.
So this case will be lawyers win and anything pt gets will be paid to the lawyer because he gets 40% just to settle outside of court. Which he knows will happen and is his best bet (the lawyers). It’s a no time hardly invested easy “win” for him and pumps up his I’ve won clients “this much money” number.
I found the picture my mom sent of the thing.
There's an article on the .gov somewhere that discusses the rarity of this scenario. Can't find it now because I'm on my phone. There's only been 7 reported cases of broken catheters being left inside the body without notifying the patient. Normally they're extracted immediately. In two of those cases, the catheter traveled through the heart.
There's an article on the .gov somewhere that discusses the rarity of this scenario. Can't find it now because I'm on my phone. There's only been 7 reported cases of broken catheters being left inside the body without notifying the patient. Normally they're extracted immediately. In two of those cases, the catheter traveled through the heart.