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MCI 102-C3 coach to RV - General/Floorplan

Continuing with the conduits. I trimmed down a street 22.5 and shower drain to bring the conduit run back to where I wanted it positioned. This tee and drain flange is for the fuel lines. The shower drain makes for a nice bell mouth entry that captures the panel it passes through with the threaded flange.

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aczlan said:
This is for the fuel lines going from the tanks to the engine, or??

Aaron Z​
It is. It may also serve as the conduit for propane lines. I haven't yet determined where or how I'll be routing those.
 
bigun said,
Elwenil said:
Ah, it's conduit. I was thinking it was a bit large for supplying fuel to the engine.
yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
LOL One Don Garlits early speed secrets was he ran a 1 inch line inside his frame rail to get more fuel to the engine!

Big diesel bus needs lots of fuel :flipoff2:
 
We're all meeting up in Springs on Friday to look at a house with a realtor. Gonna buy something a build a bus-worthy shop next to it. And get THE HELL OUT OF THIS VALLEY. If there's time, we'll grab some radiator cores. Man, I'm ready to drive this rig up there. May have to call on an 18-wheeler with a low boy. I sure don't feel like I'm going to meet the February deadline to have this running.

Tonight, we figured out our final layout for plumbing so that I can finish marking pipe stub locations. I have to know where it's all going so that I don't inadvertently weld any of the unistrut in the way. Propane lines still need a definitive location. The diesel lines only occupy the last quarter or so of one pvc conduit. Good spot to run propane line.

As far as I know, it appears that most people gang a few propane tanks together on a manifold. I'm wondering if it's worth segregating lines for each appliance. We'll have the L5 heater for the floor mounted in the engine bay, another L5 mounted (and vented the outside) somewhere in close proximity to water sources up front, and we decided to go ahead with an RV-sized range/oven (why not?).

I would think that if there is a gas leak in one main line, all gas has to be shut off until a repair is made. If I go with one bottle for each appliance, a leak at one wouldn't affect the others. Considering what I've gone with to route all lines through conduits, separate bottles seems like the easiest way to go, no? If not, I've reserved room for several bottles in what is now the fuel bay. I've really never dealt with portable tanks such as this so I'm unfamiliar with the various fittings, hoses, compatibility etc. Are there tee or Y fittings that would work with propane hoses? Hooking tee's up within conduit would be a bitch, but like everything else, I figure it out one way or another.
 
aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
Wow. Yes, I love their service. I haven't been that hard up, but as far as returns, they've made the process easier than taking a leak in the yard.

We're all meeting up in Springs on Friday to look at a house with a realtor. Gonna buy something a build a bus-worthy shop next to it. And get THE HELL OUT OF THIS VALLEY. If there's time, we'll grab some radiator cores. Man, I'm ready to drive this rig up there. May have to call on an 18-wheeler with a low boy. I sure don't feel like I'm going to meet the February deadline to have this running.

Tonight, we figured out our final layout for plumbing so that I can finish marking pipe stub locations. I have to know where it's all going so that I don't inadvertently weld any of the unistrut in the way. Propane lines still need a definitive location. The diesel lines only occupy the last quarter or so of one pvc conduit. Good spot to run propane line.

As far as I know, it appears that most people gang a few propane tanks together on a manifold. I'm wondering if it's worth segregating lines for each appliance. We'll have the L5 heater for the floor mounted in the engine bay, another L5 mounted (and vented the outside) somewhere in close proximity to water sources up front, and we decided to go ahead with an RV-sized range/oven (why not?).

I would think that if there is a gas leak in one main line, all gas has to be shut off until a repair is made. If I go with one bottle for each appliance, a leak at one wouldn't affect the others. Considering what I've gone with to route all lines through conduits, separate bottles seems like the easiest way to go, no? If not, I've reserved room for several bottles in what is now the fuel bay. I've really never dealt with portable tanks such as this so I'm unfamiliar with the various fittings, hoses, compatibility etc. Are there tee or Y fittings that would work with propane hoses? Hooking tee's up within conduit would be a bitch, but like everything else, I figure it out one way or another.
Click to expand...​
Sounds like you are looking at making it hard on yourself when you run the floor heater tank out of gas and have to swap tanks and purge the lines to get it working.
I would do a home run to each appliance, but I would run the tanks into a manifold (you then generally use a pressure regulator so there is only low pressure propane gas in your distribution lines, not the 100PSI that is in a propane tank).

Aaron Z
 
aczlan said:
Sounds like you are looking at making it hard on yourself when you run the floor heater tank out of gas and have to swap tanks and purge the lines to get it working.
I would do a home run to each appliance, but I would run the tanks into a manifold (you then generally use a pressure regulator so there is only low pressure propane gas in your distribution lines, not the 100PSI that is in a propane tank).

Aaron Z​
I probably am. Needed some input on this one. Got to thinking about it last night - hooking up the bbg tank to test out the L5 heater was the first time I've ever assembled a portable propane line. I need to look up manifolds. Haven't a clue of how many tanks I can interconnect and still run three home runs.
 
aczlan said,\n
JNHEscher said:\nI probably am. Needed some input on this one. Got to thinking about it last night - hooking up the bbg tank to test out the L5 heater was the first time I\'ve ever assembled a portable propane line. I need to look up manifolds. Haven\'t a clue of how many tanks I can interconnect and still run three home runs.​
\n Generally, you would use 2 tanks with a switchover valve built into the regulator (such as: https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-Cha...dp/B000DZQQYG/ ) and a short whip to each tank. Then you would use a manifold such as https://www.amazon.com/Propane-Natur...dp/B07BHFMGVN/ (or several tees tied together with a shutoff for each line).\n\nAaron Z
 
aczlan said:\nGenerally, you would use 2 tanks with a switchover valve built into the regulator (such as: https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-Cha...dp/B000DZQQYG/ ) and a short whip to each tank. Then you would use a manifold such as https://www.amazon.com/Propane-Natur...dp/B07BHFMGVN/ (or several tees tied together with a shutoff for each line).\n\nAaron Z​
\n Looks like that\'s just a diverter valve and regulator combo? We decided on the BBQ tanks like the Blue Rhino tanks you see in cages at Wal-Mart and gas stations/truck stops. That would give us 24-hour access to tank exchanges, provided night shift managers had the knowhow to complete the transaction and there aren\'t certain sale hours. I think I\'d want to have four to six tanks. Don\'t have to have all of them hooked up at once, though.
 
bigun said,

Looked at purchasing a schoolie that the guy had 6 tanks in a tray that slid out from under it, he had cut the side skirt in a rectangle then put hinges and a locking hasp on it
 
bigun said:
Looked at purchasing a schoolie that the guy had 6 tanks in a tray that slid out from under it, he had cut the side skirt in a rectangle then put hinges and a locking hasp on it​
I'm certain I'll be building some kind of slide out rack. Might as well. Think I'll browse propane stuff at Lowe's tomorrow evening. I don't think they carry any more than hoses and fittings for basic grill hookups. Looks like the only ACME style thread is on the bottles themselves. Everything else is NPT and standard flare fittings. My main curiosity is what fittings are crimped onto longer hoses and whether or not I can fit three hoses through the 2" PVC conduit.
 
aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
I'm certain I'll be building some kind of slide out rack. Might as well. Think I'll browse propane stuff at Lowe's tomorrow evening. I don't think they carry any more than hoses and fittings for basic grill hookups. Looks like the only ACME style thread is on the bottles themselves. Everything else is NPT and standard flare fittings. My main curiosity is what fittings are crimped onto longer hoses and whether or not I can fit three hoses through the 2" PVC conduit.​
Skip Lowes and hit eBay, Amazon, a RV supply place, a forklift repair place or someplace that makes up AC lines.
A RV supply, forklift repair place or AC line place may be able to make up a custom length hose for you with whatever ends you want on it.
A 3/8" hose like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Propane-Gas...e/263507665818 claims to have a OD of 11/16"
You might also try someplace like: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-8-FEMALE-...G/172795125932 for a custom length one.

Aaron Z
 
I pass by Camping World tomorrow. Haven't visited their place yet, so I'll see what they can do. We're considering grabbing the stove from there as well so I can figure out what connection that has. Got a line on a couple other propane places. We'll see if we have time after the house hunt.
 
bigun said,

Check farm supply places, I pretty sure you can buy the hose. IIRC my buddies dad used hydraulic hose and he used a screw in type fitting. You might check there is a RV salvage north of Denver
 
Screw-in fittings similar to AN hose ends? I'm pretty sure AN, JIC and brass flares all use the 37 degree flare. Not sure about thread compatibility. AN and JIC have essentially been them same aside from tolerances. I shouldn't need any hose longer than 20'.
 
Java said,

All the appliances will be flare fittings. Its standard these days. FWIW Amazon had the cheapest pressure and gas rated hoses when I was looking. I ran a rubber flex to each appliance.

And yes screw in AN fittings are used as well, the remote fill kit I got is all just normal AN type stuff.
 
CarterKaft said,

I like the idea of the home runs with valves at the manifold allowing 1-4 tanks to be used at one time.

With the 20 lb tanks you are going to have problems in cold weather with drawing too much off of them too fast. The tank temp will drop and pressure will follow. Running the tanks in groups of two should help with that.

I would really try to use 30 lb tanks if possible. They are the standard for for RVing and will give you much more capacity.

The other benefit is the cost to fill based on per gallon prices will not be any different than a 20lb. The swapout tank program comes at a cost. An example would be Thanksgiving I ran out of propane in my 20lb bbq bottle. The closest gas station with propane had exchange tanks and per gallon filling. The exchange was $25 flat fee and the cost to refill my tank was $13.25. That may not always be the case but I would consider mix of tanks or just planning to find a filling station while running 30lb tanks. With many tanks that shouldn't be a huge problem.
 
aczlan said,
CarterKaft said:
I like the idea of the home runs with valves at the manifold allowing 1-4 tanks to be used at one time.

With the 20 lb tanks you are going to have problems in cold weather with drawing too much off of them too fast. The tank temp will drop and pressure will follow. Running the tanks in groups of two should help with that.

I would really try to use 30 lb tanks if possible. They are the standard for for RVing and will give you much more capacity.

The other benefit is the cost to fill based on per gallon prices will not be any different than a 20lb. The swapout tank program comes at a cost. An example would be Thanksgiving I ran out of propane in my 20lb bbq bottle. The closest gas station with propane had exchange tanks and per gallon filling. The exchange was $25 flat fee and the cost to refill my tank was $13.25. That may not always be the case but I would consider mix of tanks or just planning to find a filling station while running 30lb tanks. With many tanks that shouldn't be a huge problem.​
And then you run into many places who put 15-18# of propane into a 20# cylinder (Blue Rhino only puts in 15# per the description at: Blue Rhino 15-lb Pre-Filled Propane Tank Refill - Lowes.com ).
Personally, I would plumb it for 2-4 30# (or 40# if you have the height under the floor) cylinders and leave the tank to regulator hoses long enough to reach down to a 20# tank if you need to use one of them. Then you can put a pair of 20# cylinders somewhere for spares if you feel the need to.

Aaron Z
 
CarterKaft said,
aczlan said:
And then you run into many places who put 15-18# of propane into a 20# cylinder (Blue Rhino only puts in 15# per the description at: Blue Rhino 15-lb Pre-Filled Propane Tank Refill - Lowes.com ).
Personally, I would plumb it for 2-4 30# (or 40# if you have the height under the floor) cylinders and leave the tank to regulator hoses long enough to reach down to a 20# tank if you need to use one of them. Then you can put a pair of 20# cylinders somewhere for spares if you feel the need to.

Aaron Z​
Another great point.
 
Running mixed pane tanks hadn't crossed my mind. That'd open up the fill location opportunities greatly. Makes sense about drawing too quickly from smaller tanks. The ease of exchange is what I was after. Didn't want to deal with permanent tanks. I'm assuming the 30# tanks are the size that get pulled off the rig and filled from the tanks at truck stops and such. I'll look up tank specs a do some measuring. I can't remember, but I don't think there's any problem with mounting tanks horizontally with the new OPD valve.

Poked around online a bit for tank fittings. If I'm not mistaken, ideally, I would go ACME - flare adapter to ball valve to whip hose off each tank to manifold. Regulator and splitter to home runs or regulators to home runs. I think all the appliances use the same pressure. A ball valve as close to the bottle as possible seems wise so that there's as little fuel loss and air intrusion during bottle changes as possible. I'll put a ball valve on each appliance too. I guess a mechanical gauge on the manifold along with a sender and an electric gauge in the living quarters somewhere so that high pressure stays below.
 
Slowly but surely learning my way through propane parts. I see there's three different BTU rating QCC fittings. The Eccotemp L5 heaters top out at 37,500 BTU each. RV ranges all look to be about the same - one 9,000 BTU burner and two 6,500 BTU burners. No idea what the ovens are rated at. Even though odds are slim that every propane appliance would ever be operated at full any point in time, the 100,000 BTU QCC fitting would be cutting it close if I were drawing from one tank, correct? In other words, I should be going for the 200,000 BTU QCC fitting on each tank for the sake of keeping everything in check?

Pulled up a cylinder size chart. I can easily fit four of the 40# vertical tanks and leave room for accessing the battery bank drawer. Exchange tanks do look like a crappy way to go, but I'll have a rack for one or two as an option.

Since the QCC valves adapt to 1/4" MNPT, I'm guessing there would be no problem with me sticking to 1/4" high pressure hoses and manifold because the adapter ID is so small. Probably need to up the hose ID after the regulators for the home runs.
 
Awesome. I appreciate the help here. I've been coming up with more conflicting opinions than hard data on this stuff lol. If it works, I'm planning to do what I can to keep the fuel bay at 40 deg. if the outside temperature is anything below 35 or so. Eventually, all bays will be heavily insulated on all sides with the exception of the divider walls between them and maybe some of the floor underside depending on how that heats the upstairs and what heat it emits downstairs. I know propane cylinders freeze when too much fuel is being drawn, creating even less output.

Any idea on determining the ID of the vapor hoses for each appliance? I can measure the fitting ID that comes with the L5 heaters. The charts I'm pulling up are covering stuff for large burners and such. I should size it all properly the first time in accordance with hose length, fitting count, BTU requirement, etc. Doesn't look like I can come up with the fitting size on the ranges without physically measuring one or getting somebody from the manufacturer to tell me.
 
aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
Awesome. I appreciate the help here. I've been coming up with more conflicting opinions than hard data on this stuff lol. If it works, I'm planning to do what I can to keep the fuel bay at 40 deg. if the outside temperature is anything below 35 or so. Eventually, all bays will be heavily insulated on all sides with the exception of the divider walls between them and maybe some of the floor underside depending on how that heats the upstairs and what heat it emits downstairs. I know propane cylinders freeze when too much fuel is being drawn, creating even less output.​
That should help. You will however need to have the propane area vented, so it will probbaly need to be in its own separate compartment.
JNHEscher said:
Any idea on determining the ID of the vapor hoses for each appliance? I can measure the fitting ID that comes with the L5 heaters. The charts I'm pulling up are covering stuff for large burners and such. I should size it all properly the first time in accordance with hose length, fitting count, BTU requirement, etc. Doesn't look like I can come up with the fitting size on the ranges without physically measuring one or getting somebody from the manufacturer to tell me.​
Here is a chart that should help, it will give you the BTU rates for copper and steel pipe at various pressures (you can have either a 11" WC or a 2PSI system): https://www.lp-gasequipment.com/prod...0_p157-175.pdf
If you want to calculate the dimensions yourself, the formula is found in NFPA 54, ANSI Z223.1, Section 6.4.1 a copy of which is available at: http://gost-snip.su/download/1nfpa_5..._fuel_gas_code on PDF page 25 (book page 54-22)

Aaron Z
 
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